Folks - apologies in advance if there is already a thread on this, however given the mixed opinions on the forum regarding the various players we have out on loan, I wanted to see what the general consensus was from you all regarding the absolute wealth of youth talent that, at present, seems to be getting overlooked in favour of "big name" signings.

 

Always the risk that we overlook the potential of the younger players, and while I think we are MUCH more savvy than Manure, there is the possibility that we do a United and allow the next Pogba to move on to a new club due to lack of opportunities in the first team here at CFC.

 

there's ALWAYS the balance though, and clearly we want to remain competitive and win trophies domestically and in Europe, so experienced players need to be brought in, which is what we are seeing this summer with our purchases of Fabregas / Costa etc.

 

Am I being naive? Are we basically operating the loan system as a production line of talent to be sold on at a profit to fund significant first team purchases, with the occasional bit of youth talent coming through? Or is this a genuine plan for the future, blooding young players abroad with a view to creating a pool of youth talent that can break through and become our next set of untouchables? Unfortunately I feel it is leaning towards the former as the majority of our first team talent is awesome and unlikely to be dislodged by any of these young upstarts in the list below. Is Piazon for example good enough to give any of our AMs a kick in the arse and edge forward in the pecking order? What about the likes of young wallace who looked fantastic last pre-season at full back?

 

Keen to understand the following:

 

1 - which players you would sell, and whether we would realistically turn a profit on them

2 - which players you think should be kept

3 - current first team players that will be replaced by those listed in number 2 above.

4 - your opinion on our use of the loan system being a strict business plan to turn a profit, or a genuine long term vision of the future for CFC

 

The on-loan players page on the CFC website wasnt working on my browser so apologies if there are any names missed out, and this list was taken from Givemesport so its accuracy is far from guaranteed. Regardless, here is a list of players. 

 

Oh, and lets not fall out over this, feel the love - sun is shining here in London town and the world cup starts today, lets hug it out:

 

Chelsea’s loanees:

· Ryan Bertrand – Aston Villa

· Thibaut Courtois – Atletico Madrid

· Todd Kane – Blackburn Rovers

· George Saville – Brentford

· Ulises Davila – Cordoba

· Romelu Lukaku – Everton

· Matej Delac – FK Sarejevo

· Wallace – Inter Milan

· Jhon Pirez – Leganes

· Victor Moses –Liverpool

· Kenneth Omeruo – Middlesbrough

· Nathaniel Chalobah – Middlesbrough

· Stipe Perica – NAC Breda

· Billy Clifford – Royal Antwerp

· Marko Marin – Sevilla

· Kurt Zouma– St. Etienne

· Oriol Romeu – Valencia

· Patrick Van Aabholt – Vitesse Arnhem

· Gael Kakuta – Vitesse Arnhem

· Lucas Piazon – Vitesse Arnhem

· Cristian Cuevas – Vitesse Arnhem

· Christian Atsu – Vitesse Arnhem

· Bertrand Traore – Vitesse Arnhem

· Milan Lalkovic – Walsall

· Josh McEachran – Wigan Athletic

· Thorgan Hazard – Zulte Waregem

· Tomas Kalas - Cologne

· Patrick Bamford - Derby County

Kalas doesnt start his loan till next season.

Kalas doesnt start his loan till next season.

 

phenomenal input.

I totally agree with you! I am pretty f**king awesome!

· Ryan Bertrand – sell

· Thibaut Courtois – 1st team

· Todd Kane – loan

· George Saville – sell

· Ulises Davila – sell

· Romelu Lukaku – 1st team

· Matej Delac – sell

· Wallace – loan

· Jhon Pirez – sell

· Victor Moses – sell

· Kenneth Omeruo – loan

· Nathaniel Chalobah – 1st team

· Stipe Perica – loan

· Billy Clifford – loan

· Marko Marin – sell

· Kurt Zouma– 1st team

· Oriol Romeu – sell

· Patrick Van Aabholt - 1st team

· Gael Kakuta – sell

· Lucas Piazon – 1st team

· Cristian Cuevas – loan

· Christian Atsu – loan

· Bertrand Traore – loan

· Milan Lalkovic – sell

· Josh McEachran – loan

· Thorgan Hazard – loan

· Tomas Kalas - loan

· Patrick Bamford - loan

Edited June 12, 201412 yr by big blue

Chelsea’s loanees:

 

· Ryan Bertrand – SELL                 

· Thibaut Courtois – 1^St Team

· Todd Kane – SELL

· George Saville – Loan (English Championship)  

· Ulises Davila – SELL

· Romelu Lukaku – 1^st Team

· Matej Delac – SELL

· Wallace – Loan (Vitesse Arnhem)

· Jhon Pirez – Loan (Vitesse Arnhem)

· Victor Moses –SELL

· Kenneth Omeruo –  Loan (Decent English Championship team)

· Nathaniel Chalobah – Loan (English Premiership)

· Stipe Perica – Loan (German league)

· Billy Clifford – SELL

· Marko Marin – SEL

· Kurt Zouma– 1^st Team

· Oriol Romeu – SELL

· Patrick Van Aabholt – SELL

· Gael Kakuta – SELL

· Lucas Piazon – Loan (Germany League)

· Cristian Cuevas – Loan (Vitesse Arnhem)

· Christian Atsu – Loan (Enlgish Premiership)

· Bertrand Traore – Loan (Vitesse Arnhem)

· Milan Lalkovic – SELL

· Josh McEachran – SELL

· Thorgan Hazard – Loan (English Premiership)

· Tomas Kalas – Loan (German League)

· Patrick Bamford – ( English Premiership)  

Some German team have offered 4m to sign Marin. I know Chelsea paid 7m for him, but despite of it he should be sold.

Said it before in other threads - when you look at the amount of talent we have on loan it's embarassing, and what's worse is we seem to be losing more money than we make on these youth team stars.

I'd keep: Courtois, Lukaku, Omeruo, Chalobah, Zouma, T. Hazard, Piazon and Kalas, and try to move the rest on. More money we make in moving on failed talent, the bigger the budget for top drawer summer signings.

Does seem like an extraordinary amount of talent out on loan and the expenditure on these players is pretty significant. There's chat of Zouma being loaned out to Sunderland for next season, after paying £12 million for him?

 

The trouble I have with this loan system is that its all good and well if we are picking up the loan players on the ultra cheap, but when its purchases like £12m for Zouma and the millions paid for Lukaku, its eating into our ability to purchase at the top end of the market due to FFP restrictions.

 

I'll be disappointed if Zouma goes out on loan next season, and it will be a shame if we cant get rid of the likes of Marin and Moses etc... players that aren't anywhere near decent enough to make the first team. There really needs to be a decent clear out and the scatter gun player purchases and loans should really be bearing fruit - to date, it hasnt.

Does seem like an extraordinary amount of talent out on loan and the expenditure on these players is pretty significant. There's chat of Zouma being loaned out to Sunderland for next season, after paying £12 million for him?

 

The trouble I have with this loan system is that its all good and well if we are picking up the loan players on the ultra cheap, but when its purchases like £12m for Zouma and the millions paid for Lukaku, its eating into our ability to purchase at the top end of the market due to FFP restrictions.

 

I'll be disappointed if Zouma goes out on loan next season, and it will be a shame if we cant get rid of the likes of Marin and Moses etc... players that aren't anywhere near decent enough to make the first team. There really needs to be a decent clear out and the scatter gun player purchases and loans should really be bearing fruit - to date, it hasnt.

Yeah, and this is only this season. When you think of how many players we've had through the youth setup in the last decade or so and none have properly broken through, it's worrying. Fair enough, Chelsea are now a top, top side and that entry barrier is very high, but it's depressing to see that with some of the most promising youngsters in world football and some of the best training facilities available to them, they still don't stack up. Obviously the high manager turnover doesn't help things but still.

We really need to address this bad habit of spending big bucks on young talent then making bare minimal profit or even a loss. Literally just pissing millions of pounds away every year with no proper benefit.

If we get Felipe Luis I see Zouma being loaned. Ivanovic is suitable cover for both right and centre back and one of the other youth teamers can fill in for cup games if/when required. No point in keeping one of the most talented CB youngsters (Zouma) and having him rot on the bench for a year. The season after I can see him replacing or sharing responsibility with JT, filling in alongside Cahill.

We have a very strong first team, not just now but for the foreseeable future. We have a very good manager who I honestly believe would never see us operating out of the CL places regardless of the squad. Currently we only really have to buy 1-2 first team players a season and I think if we could reduce that to one marquee signing we'd be in a similar situation as Barcelona. I think our youth development / young player acquisition/ loaning system is very well implemented to meet 3 major criteria;

1) Provide first team players, some of whom will be Home grown

2) Provide the manager with an income or regularly sustainable sales

3) Give us priority on these players signatures I.e. Signing them so our competitors can't.

The over arching aim obviously is to see first 11 or even squad players coming through who are Homegrown, but for every player coming through there will be a colossal amount who don't quite meet the standard, as with signings, not all will make the grade. But by buying these players we are depriving our rivals of their potential, locking the best into Chelsea contracts, essentially making their "signature" in the future after loans cost less. Courtois for instance would cost virtually any team in the world £25 million, yet we have him for only £8 mil.

The healthy side benefit of this of course is those who are bought cheap enough and develop sufficiently will have a resale value, as Arsenal have seen with Denilson and Bender that isn't always going to be effective. This is down to Emelano and the youth team to really make it work, picking the right player, giving them the right experience at the right time. It isn't risk free and it takes capital to produce, something that FFP has robbed our competitors of. We have a head start during a non regulated period, the rest of the PL weren't on the ball on that one. They have to make a regain whilst complying. Even mid term this gives us a competitive advantage that none of our PL rival have. Utd have their stadium size, we have this.

Has anyone seen anything of Stipe Perica? If so does he look any good

We have a very strong first team, not just now but for the foreseeable future. We have a very good manager who I honestly believe would never see us operating out of the CL places regardless of the squad. Currently we only really have to buy 1-2 first team players a season and I think if we could reduce that to one marquee signing we'd be in a similar situation as Barcelona. I think our youth development / young player acquisition/ loaning system is very well implemented to meet 3 major criteria;

1) Provide first team players, some of whom will be Home grown

2) Provide the manager with an income or regularly sustainable sales

3) Give us priority on these players signatures I.e. Signing them so our competitors can't.

Theoretically all of your 3 criteria are absolutely spot on, but so far almost none of them have been effectively achieved. We've been giving the youth development a real push for (at least) 10 years now and I couldn't name you 5 players who have broken through. The resale point is moot on this basis as well - can you name a single player we've developed and made more than £10M profit on? 

Buying to deprive your opponent's of the best potential talent is fine, but that doesn't mean it's a smart business model. In fact, if anything, letting our opponent's sign these youth stars may have benefited us more than buying them ourselves. If they're not good enough to make the Chelsea first team, wouldn't you want your direct rivals having squads full of these flops, while also wasting their time and money in the process?

Theoretically all of your 3 criteria are absolutely spot on, but so far almost none of them have been effectively achieved. We've been giving the youth development a real push for (at least) 10 years now and I couldn't name you 5 players who have broken through. The resale point is moot on this basis as well - can you name a single player we've developed and made more than £10M profit on?

Buying to deprive your opponent's of the best potential talent is fine, but that doesn't mean it's a smart business model. In fact, if anything, letting our opponent's sign these youth stars may have benefited us more than buying them ourselves. If they're not good enough to make the Chelsea first team, wouldn't you want your direct rivals having squads full of these flops, while also wasting their time and money in the process?

But I'm not sure the model is based on us making huge profits off single players. The amount of players we are bringing in suggests incremental profit at high volume is the aim. Some will make a decent profit but as long as we don't lose money too often and we will achieve the other policy objectives we will be considered successful. Saying that though we have made significant profit on KDB, Sturridge, Mata, Luiz all of which were bought in young and improved by us before moving. We'll probably break even or make a small profit on Marin, Moses, Romeu, Kakuta. All of these had the potential to be first team players, or did actually contribute but have been found wanting, as most will, they may have flopped as you say but they still have value. There is probably only Torres in the entire squad who can't be sold at break even or a profit if the right team wanted them.

Edited June 28, 201412 yr by Shotgun883

But I'm not sure the model is based on us making huge profits off single players. The amount of players we are bringing in suggests incremental profit at high volume is the aim. Some will make a decent profit but as long as we don't lose money too often and we will achieve the other policy objectives we will be considered successful. Saying that though we have made significant profit on KDB, Sturridge, Mata, Luiz all of which were bought in young and improved by us before moving. We'll probably break even or make a small profit on Marin, Moses, Romeu, Kakuta. All of these had the potential to be first team players, or did actually contribute but have been found wanting, as most will, they may have flopped as you say but they still have value. There is probably only Torres in the entire squad who can't be sold at break even or a profit if the right team wanted them.

None of those players came through our setup though lol? Even Sturridge was brought through the City ranks.

I'm not talking about young players (under 25) we buy in that are intended for the first team, I'm talking about the "homegrown" 16 year olds we've been trying to bring through the youth setup. None of which have been sold for any real profit.

You are correct, hardly any of our loanees are youth team players, less Barcelona name a top team that have bought through a local lad from U16 an seen them playing at the highest level... Welbeck, Cleverley, Wilshere, Micah Richards, Januzai. Top team just don't have the patience to do this, we are not alone on this one. What we can say, is we are light years ahead of where we were 5 years ago.

The entire youth team set up is from 12-23 we have been purchasing players all the way through that range with a view to developing them for one of the three reasons. Even doing that successfully is difficult as all clubs are trying to poach the best young talent, you only have to look at Utd paying through the nose for Fellaini, Herrera and Mata. Us spending 32 mil on Costa who was bought for sub 5 mil only 2-3 years ago, Matic.

It's a very difficult, risky business to be in and I'm glad we are really focussing on making a difference now, I'm not expecting 2 homegrown world class superstars every year though.

So according to press reports Wallace has been moved from Inter to Vitesse.

 

Hope he gets plenty game time this loan.

He should have gone there last season instead of wasting a whole season at Inter.

West Ham are interested in loaning in Atsu according to Sky Sources would be happy with that

No way would i want us to help out those pikeys! I hope them and QPR go down next season.

Regardless would be great for his development and I wouldn't mind at all

Edit: this bloke on Sky Sports saying Aston Villa, Hamburg and Espanyol also interested in loaning him

Edited July 11, 201412 yr by Bobbywoodhogan

Isnt he a left winger? Villa are signing up loads of left sided players right now.

Isnt he a left winger? Villa are signing up loads of left sided players right now.

Yeah but suppose he could play on the right, who knows anyway he might impress Jose in pre season

I think Atsu is probably a bit too old to be a "young player" who might make it at Chelsea now. Isn't he about 22/23? A decent season in the PL could add a few million to his price though, so would be good.

Could find his own thread...

But I am abit surprised to see the club Oriel Romeu be given a new 3 year contract. I thought that he was on his way out..not signing on further. Surprising..