Agree on how good Silva is, as for the comparison with Hazard, they are totally different players so very hard to say one is better than the other.

 

Both are better than Sanchez though. If Aguero can stay fit for an entire season then he'd round out my top 3 with Silva and Hazard.

Edited August 11, 201510 yr by Jonty

Can I just ask what you mean by "awareness"? 

 

Always seems to think about what to do with the ball when he has has it rather than before he gets it.. Doesnt have a picture of the game before he recieves it, hence most of his first touches take the ball back towards our goal, and its the reason he doesnt recieve the ball between the lines.

2. Does he need to be likeable? He wins things that's all that matters

4. Envy? Did you watch us last season? Seems to be some people would rather watch 'beautiful' football constantly rather than winning football. There are times to play certain ways and it's as simple as that.

No necessarily but would prefer him to revert back to charming rather than irritating.

 

Some people seem to be confused when I say way we play. Its not about beautiful football, its about having the structure and mentality to dominate our opponents (as we have better players) and show a positive philosophy.

Always seems to think about what to do with the ball when he has has it rather than before he gets it.. Doesnt have a picture of the game before he recieves it, hence most of his first touches take the ball back towards our goal, and its the reason he doesnt recieve the ball between the lines.

 

Got to say I disagree with that, point in case would be his assist for Hazard's goal against Manchester United last season. 

 

He receives the ball with his back to United's goal but is aware enough of what's going on around him to be able to play a back heel pass into space for the return ball to Hazard giving him room to run into.

 

 

Obviously that's just one example but I think he does stuff like that frequently enough to be credited with situational awareness. 

 

I get that some Chelsea supporters aren't overly keen on Oscar for one reason or the other but regardless to call him the most overrated player in the entire league is pretty harsh, especially when he has plenty of detractors. 

It's harsh but at least he didn't call him a 'thing'.

 

Kind of agree with the awareness thing too. Not that he doesn't have any awareness, but it's not up there with the best no.10's in the world which is the reason why he ends up getting dispossessed a lot in tight spaces. But then, he's not your normal no.10.

Of course there is a select few times we can pick for every player. I'm not necessarily talking about flicks, tricks and back-heels. I'm talking about receiving the ball in tight spaces, knowing the whole picture, and using this to manoeuvre the ball into the less obvious path.

 

Far too often IMO he loses the ball in these situations, or does the obvious thing. If I was JM i would look to move him deeper to optimise his passing. I dont believe the has the attributes to be a top No10.

Got to say I disagree with that, point in case would be his assist for Hazard's goal against Manchester United last season. 

 

He receives the ball with his back to United's goal but is aware enough of what's going on around him to be able to play a back heel pass into space for the return ball to Hazard giving him room to run into.

 

 

Obviously that's just one example but I think he does stuff like that frequently enough to be credited with situational awareness. 

 

I get that some Chelsea supporters aren't overly keen on Oscar for one reason or the other but regardless to call him the most overrated player in the entire league is pretty harsh, especially when he has plenty of detractors. 

Of course there is a select few times we can pick for every player. I'm not necessarily talking about flicks, tricks and back-heels. I'm talking about receiving the ball in tight spaces, knowing the whole picture, and using this to manoeuvre the ball into the less obvious path.

 

Far too often IMO he loses the ball in these situations, or does the obvious thing. If I was JM i would look to move him deeper to optimise his passing. I dont believe the has the attributes to be a top No10.

 

My personal take is that he isn't expected to be a traditional number 10 in our system so expecting him to do the same things for us that the likes of Di Maria or James have done do Real Madrid for example is pointless because although he's playing in the same area of the pitch the job he is doing is very different. 

 

You only have to look at how often he drops deep when playing for us to receive the ball... One of his main roles is to create space for others by pulling defenders out of position with his movement. If he's in a tight space he's more likely to take the obvious path because ball retention is key, he can lay off a short sideways pass and then move into space, create an open and stretch play. 

 

His game is as much about what he does when he doesn't have the ball at his feet as when he does. 

My personal take is that he isn't expected to be a traditional number 10 in our system so expecting him to do the same things for us that the likes of Di Maria or James have done do Real Madrid for example is pointless because although he's playing in the same area of the pitch the job he is doing is very different. 

 

You only have to look at how often he drops deep when playing for us to receive the ball... One of his main roles is to create space for others by pulling defenders out of position with his movement. If he's in a tight space he's more likely to take the obvious path because ball retention is key, he can lay off a short sideways pass and then move into space, create an open and stretch play. 

 

His game is as much about what he does when he doesn't have the ball at his feet as when he does. 

 

'His game is as much about what he does when he doesn't have the ball at his feet as when he does.'

 

Kind of says it all really about our philosophy.

You don't seem to like the way we play eh

Edited August 11, 201510 yr by Chelsbear

You don't seem to like the way we play eh

Ha!

 

Its more the way we setup to play alot of the time, rather than how we actually do. Prime example 29% possession at Home to Man United last season. I know it was an important Win but was that seriously the way to do it? I challenge anyone who says they enjoyed watching that...

'His game is as much about what he does when he doesn't have the ball at his feet as when he does.'

 

Kind of says it all really about our philosophy.

 

You say that as though you object to our philosophy? 

 

What is it specifically that you dislike? 

You say that as though you object to our philosophy? 

 

What is it specifically that you dislike? 

 

http://www.theshedend.com/topic/28347-our-evolution/

http://www.theshedend.com/topic/28347-our-evolution/

 

 

When I watch other teams play, I can see the way they work, as a team, and what they are trying to achieve. With us it seems half hearted, and without clear instruction.

 

You don't play a full season and lose just 3 times (once after having already won the title) if you're doing things half hearted and are uncleanly instructed. 

 

Quite the opposite in fact, that's literally a team pulling together and being well drilled and carrying out their roles to the best of their ability. To be top of the league for over 250 days shows tremendous level of discipline within the squad. 

 

 

It seems in Mourinhos heart he wants us to play deep and counter as thats easier

 

If it was that easy, surely everyone would do it? 

 

 

the style he is comfortable with.

 

If you're skilled at oil painting would you expect to suddenly be a world class sculpture? 

 

Mourinho is what he is, he's a pragmatist at heart. The club knew full well what his footballing philosophy was when asking him to return. We tried the new fangled overly tactical approach under AVB and it blew up in our faces. High lines and flexible diamonds might sound good on paper but their practical execution in league as fast paced as the Premier League is another thing entirely. 

 

 

Yet his head knows the fans and the owner wont put up with that so instructs (at times) to push further forward.

 

What do you mean we won't "put up with it". 5 years without winning the league title, I'm more than happy to see my side play Mourinho's style. 

 

Jose isn't naive enough to think he can play gung ho against every team and he doesn't. Pep's tried that a couple of times with Bayern and he's been on the end of a couple of spanking as a result. 

 

 

Even then our FBs dont take up high enough starting positions, our midfield are not brave enough to get on the ball in tight areas, and our Defense continues to drop deep at the mere sight of an attack.

 

The criticism Ivanovic gets is that he press too far forward? 

 

Dave is naturally right footed so won't offer much width by pressing forward and when he's inclined to cut inside like the player he plays behind (Hazard) you'd risk those players being in each others way too much if he pressed forward a lot. His role with staying back allows Ivan to press forward to create width and allows Hazard and Willian to drift in field. 

 

JT hasn't got the legs to play a high line and you play to your strengths. He sits deep yes but there is no one better at what he does in the league, so why wouldn't you want to play to one of your best players' strengths? 

You don't play a full season and lose just 3 times (once after having already won the title) if you're doing things half hearted and are uncleanly instructed. 

 

Quite the opposite in fact, that's literally a team pulling together and being well drilled and carrying out their roles to the best of their ability. To be top of the league for over 250 days shows tremendous level of discipline within the squad. 

 

 

If it was that easy, surely everyone would do it? 

 

 

If you're skilled at oil painting would you expect to suddenly be a world class sculpture? 

 

Mourinho is what he is, he's a pragmatist at heart. The club knew full well what his footballing philosophy was when asking him to return. We tried the new fangled overly tactical approach under AVB and it blew up in our faces. High lines and flexible diamonds might sound good on paper but their practical execution in league as fast paced as the Premier League is another thing entirely. 

 

 

What do you mean we won't "put up with it". 5 years without winning the league title, I'm more than happy to see my side play Mourinho's style. 

 

Jose isn't naive enough to think he can play gung ho against every team and he doesn't. Pep's tried that a couple of times with Bayern and he's been on the end of a couple of spanking as a result. 

 

 

The criticism Ivanovic gets is that he press too far forward? 

 

Dave is naturally right footed so won't offer much width by pressing forward and when he's inclined to cut inside like the player he plays behind (Hazard) you'd risk those players being in each others way too much if he pressed forward a lot. His role with staying back allows Ivan to press forward to create width and allows Hazard and Willian to drift in field. 

 

JT hasn't got the legs to play a high line and you play to your strengths. He sits deep yes but there is no one better at what he does in the league, so why wouldn't you want to play to one of your best players' strengths? 

 Oh dear oh dear.

 

Ok- so we are drilled and clear when it comes to defending, particuarly in a deep block. When going forward we lack fluency and clear patterns of play. We didnt at the start of the season when we were clearly working on these factors, however specific effort to make this our philosophy were soon abandoned when the winning line was in sight.

 

Lots of small teams do stiffle bigger teams - ie West Ham at Arsenal Sunday. My point is that we have a starting XI to rival any others, so I'd prefer to see us stamp our authority on big games more often.

 

You have emphasized my point. JM is a pragmatist. As a Chelsea fan, I dont want us to be pragmatic. AVB was trying to change things all too quickly. It takes time and a process. I thought this process was starting last season, but as to my point, I now dont see the evolution. There is a difference between Gung-Ho and playing on the front foot. When the big european teams play each other, none sit back and defend like we do. They defend properly but expand and play when they have the ball. And shut down quickly to stop the opposition.

 

If you are happy with this approach then fine, each to there own. Personally id rather see more intent.

 

You need variety in attack. When FBs start high, it forces opposition back. It allows the opportunity for 2v1s should wingers not track, and allows wingers to move inside for an overload. Having Ivan always the one forward and Azpi always the one back is easy to defend against and predictable. Plus playing Dave LB says it all about our intention in a football match to start with.

 

Goes back to if Mascherano or Pique can play that way so can JT. And if our whole strategy is based on a 34 year old, what does that say for the future? 

Alan Pardew for England. 

"When I watch other teams play, I can see the way they work, as a team, and what they are trying to achieve. With us it seems half hearted, and without clear instruction."

You can't honestly believe that, surely? it's pretty much mourinhos entire ethos, it's how he wins trophies.

"When I watch other teams play, I can see the way they work, as a team, and what they are trying to achieve. With us it seems half hearted, and without clear instruction."

You can't honestly believe that, surely? it's pretty much mourinhos entire ethos, it's how he wins trophies.

 

My point is, when we sit back and allow 70% possesion to the other team, thats when I can see clear direction and instruction. 

 

But I want to see it when we are pushing forward and in need to break teams down. See clear patterns of play, and plans that have been worked on. Unfortunately I dont...its not fluid or In sync because we clearly do not work on this enough.

My point is, when we sit back and allow 70% possesion to the other team, thats when I can see clear direction and instruction. 

 

But I want to see it when we are pushing forward and in need to break teams down. See clear patterns of play, and plans that have been worked on. Unfortunately I dont...its not fluid or In sync because we clearly do not work on this enough.

 

I agree to an extent (for example i'm in awe of the way PSG controlled the midfield against us, and how Bayern dominated their opposition during their 12/13 CL winning campaign)... but to do so I think we need players capable of playing in that type of system. Jose is making the most out of what we have.

Edited August 11, 201510 yr by the special one

Well, I must be watching different games to you then.

Well, I must be watching different games to you then.

Excluding Liverpool away where we pressed and didn't let them out of there half for much of the game last season (1-2), name me a game whereby we dominated/outplayed a 'big team' and showed consistent fluid patterns of play (not counter attacks)

Tottenham.

Also, not really much point me naming any games is, all you're going to do is say we didn't. A completely pointeless exercise.

Edited August 11, 201510 yr by dkw

I get points about being frustrated with not being a more offensive free flowing goal machine but not trying to be funny when I say if you don't like that go and support Arsenal. It would be neive to expect us to win things AND offer enjoyable football to boot. Not getting into the debate about leagues but I feel it's pretty obvious that the Spanish league has some serious minnows in it where you can play guns blazing with no fear of losing points.

That's my opinion anyways. Not looking to have a 'mines bigger than yours' type argument with anyone.

I assume you mean Spurs, when we won 3-0. The game where we had 39% possession. At home. And allowed them almost as many shots us. We sat back, countered and won the game. We didnt dominate and outplay them.

 

' It would be neive to expect us to win things AND offer enjoyable football to boot'

REALLY?! So you cannot be successful and play good football?!

 

My point is that with our players, and some time...we will be MORE successful for bedding down a more attacking philosophy.

I assume you mean Spurs, when we won 3-0. The game where we had 39% possession. At home. And allowed them almost as many shots us. We sat back, countered and won the game. We didnt dominate and outplay them.

' It would be neive to expect us to win things AND offer enjoyable football to boot'

REALLY?! So you cannot be successful and play good football?!

My point is that with our players, and some time...we will be MORE successful for bedding down a more attacking philosophy.

Yes really Sir Trolls-a-lot. You shouldn't EXPECT both, if you get both great. When you think how many teams in every league in the world tell me the percentage of teams that play attractive and win trophies, not as many as you would assume.

Another thing is that attractive football is subjective....some people enjoy the cut and thrust of counter attacking football. There is merits and drawbacks to every style of football, if that wasn't the case changes in style wouldn't come and go like the seasons.

Edited August 11, 201510 yr by MissouriBlue

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