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Everton v Chelsea (PL) Sun 1st May 2022 14:00 GMT


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10 hours ago, Brigadeiro Mk II said:

The problem with that argument is that you seem to be assuming it's just a simple case of us losing the final and then suddenly everyone finally seeing that our players aren't all that, or even plain sh*t like you say. This just WON'T happen, unless you're playing FIFA or Football Manager.

Yes it WILL. Because the fans will continue to be disappointed, angry, frustrated and the board would know the season ended in a sour taste. 

10 hours ago, Brigadeiro Mk II said:

It didn't happen when we got trounced by Bournemouth, City 6-0, when we were near relegation zone a few years ago, etc. Why do you suddenly think it will now? Unless the new board truly wants to erase Roman's era and start anew, which we don't have ways of knowing so far.

The one season we finished 4th (just about) and had no trophies - we actually went to the market and spent some money. It's just a shame it was under a novice coach.

City 6-0 and Bournemouth defeats was the SAME season we won the Europa League. THAT'S why it didn't happen. That EL win gave these crop of players a lifeline.

10 hours ago, Brigadeiro Mk II said:

Finally, we want to win the cup 100% because that's we aim to do as a football club and as supporters.

Look around you pal. Everyone is talking about stopping Liverpool and I'm not a Chelsea fan because of it. Not because it's for the supporters. You're the only one who brought this up.

10 hours ago, Brigadeiro Mk II said:

And if we end up winning the damn thing, our squad is doing at least SOMETHING, minimal even, right, which you don't wanna acknowledge in any way whatsoever.

It's SOMETHING and in a short term of things I'll be happy we beat Liverpool and we have a FA Cup. I acknowledge that. But I've seen this story before. What happened when we last won the FA Cup for example? Did we spend to fix the GLARING problems in the following window or just sign Jorginho?

10 hours ago, Brigadeiro Mk II said:

Everyone here knows a rebuild is needed, be it new players, new mentality, whatever.

Seems that they don't.

10 hours ago, Brigadeiro Mk II said:

You wanna build for the future? That's fine, but winning is not something guaranteed at all, you take what comes your way, and this time it's the F.A Cup for us. 

Winning isn't guaranteed I agree 100%. So it's very tempting to win this FA Cup. But I'm seeing my club degrading and winning it is not going to stop the rot. I want everyone to be reunited including the board to say this squad ain't good enough. You could be right, it may not happen but it will certainly NOT happen if we win the FA Cup and I have to PRAY that Azpi, Alonso and co. say that their time is done and leave us.

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So, following your logic, we want the dippers to win the CL, PL and FA Cup as the quadruple will show how sh*t we are.

We also want to end up losing to Wolves, Leeds, Leicester and Watford to ensure we end up out of the CL and hopefully in the Conference League, to reinforce the idea that we are sh*t and need to renew the team.

Have I got it right?

Nah mate, I want to win every game we play and that includes any final we play too.

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1 minute ago, RMH said:

So, following your logic, we want the dippers to win the CL, PL and FA Cup as the quadruple will show how sh*t we are.

WOAH. Where did I say I want Pool to win the quad? I'm not here dreaming about Pool winning the fecking quad.

1 minute ago, RMH said:

We also want to end up losing to Wolves, Leeds, Leicester and Watford to ensure we end up out of the CL and hopefully in the Conference League, to reinforce the idea that we are sh*t and need to renew the team.

Have I got it right?

No, you have got it wrong. I want us to still get top 4. I want us to finish 3rd. 

1 minute ago, RMH said:

Nah mate, I want to win every game we play and that includes any final we play too.

You are missing the point and you just don't get it. Just because YOU want to win every game doesn't mean it's going to happen. I wanted us to beat Everton last weekend. They fecked up yet again. Doesn't that anger you? Or you just don't care? How many times are these crop of players are going to feck up for us and down-tools?

Winning the FA Cup is giving them a lifeline. Because fans will no longer be that angry, disappointed and we will see "Give Jorginho another chance" etc. And it's the same cycle. And like I said before, TT will be the sacrificial lamb.

FFS I want us to win every game. I want us to be CHALLENGING for every trophy and us dreaming for a quadruple. But I promise you, wholeheartedly we will never win every game (or most games) with these crop of players. It simply won't work. They are a mess.

But maybe when we lose to Liverpool in a couple of weeks time, you'll understand.

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8 minutes ago, Mana said:

No, you have got it wrong. I want us to still get top 4. I want us to finish 3rd. 

Finishing 3rd would still give the players a lifeline, because after all the sh*t we've been thrown this season with the injuries, covid and being seized, finishing third will be an achievement.

13 minutes ago, Mana said:

You are missing the point and you just don't get it. Just because YOU want to win every game doesn't mean it's going to happen. I wanted us to beat Everton last weekend. They fecked up yet again. Doesn't that anger you? Or you just don't care? How many times are these crop of players are going to feck up for us and down-tools?

You are confusing two concepts. The fact that I want Chelsea to win every game, trophy and final we reach it doesn't mean that we are going to win every time. And if we lose, I will get annoyed, believe me, it's not the first time that losing ruins my weekend. And that is why I want to win, because I am happier when Chelsea wins, every Chelsea supporter is happier when we win! That doesn't make me blind to the issues that the team is showing.

14 minutes ago, Mana said:

Winning the FA Cup is giving them a lifeline. Because fans will no longer be that angry, disappointed and we will see "Give Jorginho another chance" etc. And it's the same cycle. And like I said before, TT will be the sacrificial lamb.

Nope, it's not giving them a lifeline, but it is making every Chelsea fan a happy chap for the rest of the weekend instead of having to endure an endless week of media adoring the dippers. Not even winning the CL has given Jorginho a lifeline among the fan base, to be honest, so winning the FA Cup won't do that either for the players.

17 minutes ago, Mana said:

FFS I want us to win every game. I want us to be CHALLENGING for every trophy and us dreaming for a quadruple. But I promise you, wholeheartedly we will never win every game (or most games) with these crop of players. It simply won't work. They are a mess.

You just said that you wanted to lose the final "for the greater good". Are you going back on what you said? And of course I know we won't win every match we play, not with this crop and not with any other players. It just never happens.

19 minutes ago, Mana said:

But maybe when we lose to Liverpool in a couple of weeks time, you'll understand.

I don't know if I'll understand or not, but I will be annoyed as hell. And I will not be switching on the tv/radio/social media until next season to avoid having to listen pundits and fans how great Liverpool is.

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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, RMH said:

Finishing 3rd would still give the players a lifeline, because after all the sh*t we've been thrown this season with the injuries, covid and being seized, finishing third will be an achievement.

No just finishing 3rd wouldn't. Especially now we are sucked in to the top 4 race. In the TT thread, I posted our points tally for the last 4 seasons. We are aiming to finish the same number of points the last time we finished 3rd in the league (72). While you have Arsenal breathing down our necks.

Also like I said, the last time we ended up with no trophies (I know we won the SC/CWC but they are not major trophies, UEFA doesn't even class SC as a major) we ended up going to the market and spent some money.

I mean, from what you said here, the same thing SHOULD happen at the end of this season if we fail to win the FA cup. Lampard's "4th place" was an achievement to most and we went to the market.

28 minutes ago, RMH said:

You are confusing two concepts. The fact that I want Chelsea to win every game, trophy and final we reach it doesn't mean that we are going to win every time. And if we lose, I will get annoyed, believe me, it's not the first time that losing ruins my weekend. And that is why I want to win, because I am happier when Chelsea wins, every Chelsea supporter is happier when we win! That doesn't make me blind to the issues that the team is showing.

It doesn't make you blind, but you won't be as angry, disappointed or frustrated if you see no movement in the summer. Because if somehow we beat Liverpool in style and Jorginho, Alonso, Azpi were all in that XI...I've seen it before man. It may not be you exactly, but the other fans will be very lenient.

28 minutes ago, RMH said:

Nope, it's not giving them a lifeline, but it is making every Chelsea fan a happy chap for the rest of the weekend instead of having to endure an endless week of media adoring the dippers. Not even winning the CL has given Jorginho a lifeline among the fan base, to be honest, so winning the FA Cup won't do that either for the players.

Lol. Listen. Even if we beat Pool in the final, you're still going to have endless weeks of the media enduring the dippers if they win the treble. There's nothing we can do about that. This is why I'm so focused on getting these players out, so we can challenge eventually and put a permanent stop to the dippers.

Regards to Jorginho, I meant he shouldn't be given a lifeline universally. That includes the board, the fans and the media. FFS, because Jorginho won the CL, SC and the Euros he finished 3rd in the Ballon d'Or! HIM of all people. That's one of the reasons why he's still here. He's now looked at as some prized asset.

28 minutes ago, RMH said:

You just said that you wanted to lose the final "for the greater good". Are you going back on what you said? And of course I know we won't win every match we play, not with this crop and not with any other players. It just never happens.

I said I don't care. I don't care if we lose the FA Cup. I did not say I wish or want to lose it. Because yes, for the greater good. Would I want us to be 1 step forward, 3 steps back? Or 2 steps back, 3 steps forward? 

28 minutes ago, RMH said:

I don't know if I'll understand or not, but I will be annoyed as hell. And I will not be switching on the tv/radio/social media until next season to avoid having to listen pundits and fans how great Liverpool is.

Can you see why I don't care if we lose the FA Cup. I want you to be annoyed as hell. I want Chelsea fans to be annoyed as hell as these crop of players failed yet again. That would hopefully push the board and the new owners to do something about it.

Because there is hardcore evidence I can easily point to you, including last summer that if we win a trophy at the end of the season, nothing significant gets done.

Edited by Mana
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19 hours ago, Mana said:

This is why I don't really want us winning the FA Cup. Papering over the damn cracks. Overhyping these players.

Enough with the CL stuff. Let's be real - none of us last season expected us to win the thing because on paper the squad ain't good enough to win it.

Look at the performances outside the CL last season. Poor. Average. Including from Azpi.

You absolute idiot.

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23 hours ago, Mana said:

This is why I don't really want us winning the FA Cup. Papering over the damn cracks. Overhyping these players.

Enough with the CL stuff. Let's be real - none of us last season expected us to win the thing because on paper the squad ain't good enough to win it.

Look at the performances outside the CL last season. Poor. Average. Including from Azpi.

I can see how you came to that point of view, we have seen some frustrating transfer activity (or lack thereof) and dire performances the season after winning silverware. But I do not share your opinion that losing the third FA Cup final in a row would solve that. Apart from the fact that I want us to win every match, especially the final after losing the last 2, there is absolutely no guarantee that this would have the effect that you desire. The two may not even be connected, it may just be that it only seems that way to supporters with no insight into what really happens during transfer windows. Getting new owners probably muddles that debate anyway this summer (or longer).

Obviously you have every right to believe that losing the final is short term pain to achieve long term benefit. But hoping we lose? Not many Chelsea supporters will see it your way, probably. I for one want that trophy.

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11 minutes ago, Valerie said:

I can see how you came to that point of view, we have seen some frustrating transfer activity (or lack thereof) and dire performances the season after winning silverware. But I do not share your opinion that losing the third FA Cup final in a row would solve that. Apart from the fact that I want us to win every match, especially the final after losing the last 2, there is absolutely no guarantee that this would have the effect that you desire. The two may not even be connected, it may just be that it only seems that way to supporters with no insight into what really happens during transfer windows. Getting new owners probably muddles that debate anyway this summer (or longer).

Obviously you have every right to believe that losing the final is short term pain to achieve long term benefit. But hoping we lose? Not many Chelsea supporters will see it your way, probably. I for one want that trophy.

Fair. At least you understood where I'm coming from.

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We also have no idea how a new owner will treat this group of players, assuming we don't end up getting liquidated.

I doubt the new owner will see the FA Cup as a b all and end all. Whether we win it (we won't) or we don't, I expect the new owners to put their stamp on it.

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2 hours ago, Mana said:

Fair. At least you understood where I'm coming from.

Think we all understand where you are coming from, it's just that majority of Chelsea supporters will disagree with you. We have all come across the term of winning meaningless games is papering over the cracks but once you get to a cup final, you have to want to win it regardless.

Many of us have been frustrated with the short sightedness of our club and have said so on here countless times. When we weren't trusting good young players and would sign older "proven" players just for the quick gains - especially in the Mourinho era. We are still suffering from letting the likes of KDB and Salah leave as Mourinho and the club were looking at the NOW, rather than building for seasons to come. At that time I said I would genuinely forego trophies for a few seasons if I could see us assembling a squad which included our academy players and we had a long-term vision. At least some of that has happened in recent seasons, but some of the signings have proved not to be good enough. 

I think you are doing TT a disservice. He has now had a full season in charge and I am sure he has identified the areas we need to make changes and the players we need to let go. Winning or losing the FA Cup final will have no bearing on any of that, so lets win it and then trust TT to build something and get us challenging with City and the dippers. That's as long as the ownership of the club gets sorted out sometime soon, but that's another thread.............................

   

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