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grant is claudio revisited


The Brit

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I know we didn't lose, but did anyone get the same feeling tonight as when we threw the champions league semi first leg away against Monaco four years ago? Claudio made bizaree subs that night which dumbfounded the players and grant did the same tonight...to put alex on for kalou was bad enough simply to hand the intiative to spurs, but it just added to the defensive uncertainty...no-one knew who was picking up who and we ended up conceding another two goals and it could have been more...yes we defended badly before that, but Carvalho, who lost everything in the air and was woeful all night should have been pulled for alex if anyone...but then to make it worse after Joe had put us 4-3 up he takes our best player off for ballack...mindless...it's almost like he wants even what few supporters he has left...Chippy? have second thoughts

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whether Monaco was worse is not the point...like I said the confusion caused by the substitutions caused a similar vibe...having a look at some of the papers already they talk about drogba going to the bench asking what was going on and what formation they were supposed to be playing...that's what the lads did in monaco too

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The thing is, Claudio was/is a good manager (not a great manager) with a proven track record.

Grant has no track record and has shown no suggestion to me that he is even a "good" manager.

Claudio cops a lot of flack for that night in Monaco, but at the end of the day, he left the club in a better state than it was when he took it over, and improved the team every season - even before Roman came along.

I wonder if we will be able to say the same about Grant?

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i liked claudio more than this guy, but he wasn't a winner either...you hoped he would succeed rather than had genuine belief (Jose)...like I said, with drogba going to the bench asking what the f*ck was going on, it certainly had similarities with chelsea in monaco...whether monaco was worse isn't the point

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If Grant could, for one match only, get the same level of committment from his players as Claudio did in that CL Semi at Highbury, then I would bow down to him in honor. Since we all know that won't happen I'm not too worried. Also, Grant has a much superior squad of players than Claudio had - Gronks anyone? So basically, there is no comparison. When Grant leaves Chelsea it will be interesting to see how many teams come in for him... icon_rolleyes.gif

PS - Edit

When Grant leaves Chelsea it will be interesting to see how many teams come in for him

This only applies to non-pub teams!

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If Grant could, for one match only, get the same level of committment from his players as Claudio did in that CL Semi at Highbury, then I would bow down to him in honor.

Exactly - the players defended claudio to a man. He was well loved.

Qaz:

Monaco was bad yes - but Claudio had been dealing with all kinds of cloak and dagger bollocks in the lead up, which at least partially explained his bad decision making that night.

However, throwing away the lead to Tottenham not once, not twice, but three times *after* the harrowing loss in the Carling final shows a fundamental inability to motivate/inspire the players, that definately puts Grant beneath Claudio as a manager (not to mention that fact that Claudio was a top bloke and transformed JT, Cudicini, Cole, Lampard into stars). I'm with those who say that if Grant wins anything this season (a very small likelihood now) it will be in spite of himself.

Also, I have to say your 'counter-intuitive' support for Grant is starting to look more and more like the bloody-mindedness of a newspaper opinion columnist who has found an 'angle' and mines it for all it's worth (Janet Albrectson springs to mind). Spare us the monotony ...

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If Grant could, for one match only, get the same level of committment from his players as Claudio did in that CL Semi at Highbury, then I would bow down to him in honor.

Claudio had almost four years at the club to work on that commitment and he, by the way, had won nothing here.

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Ok but remember before Claudio we weren't exactly winning trophies on a regular basis. Given the Abramovich factor, who's to say what might have happened if he'd been given a 5th season. That's something we'll never know.

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all grant does is put defenders on when were winning thus leading to to many defenders and us hanging on

Except against Everton, where he refused to put a defender on when we were winning and instead tried to rely on territorial dominance. Which he got massively slated for, as I recall.

That's not to defend yesterday; we should never be conceding four in a Premiership game, let alone against Sp*rs. I'm just amused at the way Grant seems to draw criticism whichever way he decides (for the record, I think he was right against Everton and screwed it up yesterday).

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Chippy? have second thoughts

Again I will just tell you I have not seen enough to have thoughts let alone second thoughts,

What I saw was a good attacking performance and a crap defensive one, add to that a couple of Subs that look far worse than they were because of the result and you all seeing all knowing types brand Grant again inept, the players are absolved because they dont knowtheir roles as these substitutions have never to your knowledge been discussed or used in training.

well perhaps if I had the opportunity to watch all the training sessions and listen to all the team talks I would end up blaming the manager but as I dont and as I believe it could have ended differently with or without the changes Grant made I will again postpone my judgement until as I have explained, the end of the season at least.

Directing posts at me for an answer as if I am saying Grant is the best for the job is fine if it gives you somebody to point the rest of the Grant haters at and if it helps you feel good in some way but it wont change the fact that I have never said and will not say until I feel he has had a fair crack, that he is or is'nt good enough to take us forward.

Because I defend his actions as I can often see his reasoning only means I am looking at his success or failure in an unbiased manner,

I dont hold the obligitory candle for Jose so I can reserve judgement on Grants mistakes until I feel he has made too many and the players are less at fault than him.

If you choose to Judge him earlier than I do that is up to you but what you dont need to do is keep directing posts to me expecting me to hide away as if I gave him the Job and sacked the egotistical one,

I will come out and say he is not up to it if and when I feel it is fair to do so and the Spurs result has not pushed me in either direction.

I wont be swayed by the weight of opinion as I have supported Chelsea all my life, played the game and loved the game as much as most on here and have faith in my own Judgement while realising hasty Judgement is (IMO) of no use to anybody in most situations,

Whatever people like to think about Roman, I feel he has the best interests of the Club at heart and still believe he see's something in Grant that we dont get to see, not that he is his puppet but a genuine belief that he can do the Job, If you prefer to read into it that he has Grant there so he can pick the team, choose the Subs or have a turn in Goal really does'nt matter to me as I will make up my mind when I have watched the progress or lack of until at least May.

Cheers

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Exactly. The bias of so called "objectivity" which can mean whatever you want it to mean depending upon definition. And I am at a loss to understand what so called notions of "fairness" have to do with it or the fact that he supposedly has less "ego" than his predeccessor. For Godsakes we all have an ego. And in the business of management an ego is paramount. All great managers have egos in spades. For most of us including our squad I'll wager, he just doesn't have what "it" takes. And it's not about "hatred" or "dislike" of the man or any so called "erotic" attachment to his predecessor. If you want to postpone your judgment that's entirely a matter for you but to say that he hasn't had a fair crack is nonsense. The man is simply not up to the task and must be shipped come May.

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I think you are being harsh on Claudio. He ballsed up the Monaco match for sure, but overall he was a pretty good manager- certainly a hell of a lot better than Grant.

I'd have Claudio back in the blink of an eye, if it meant that we got rid of this tossing imposter Avram Can't !!!!!!

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Exactly. The bias of so called "objectivity" which can mean whatever you want it to mean depending upon definition. And I am at a loss to understand what so called notions of "fairness" have to do with it or the fact that he supposedly has less "ego" than his predeccessor. For Godsakes we all have an ego. And in the business of management an ego is paramount. All great managers have egos in spades. For most of us including our squad I'll wager, he just doesn't have what "it" takes. And it's not about "hatred" or "dislike" of the man or any so called "erotic" attachment to his predecessor. If you want to postpone your judgment that's entirely a matter for you but to say that he hasn't had a fair crack is nonsense. The man is simply not up to the task and must be shipped come May.

To be honest the Egotistic label was slung in as a wind up and I love it when a plan comes together icon_wink.gif Its fine and dandy to talk about the Toad drinking piss on his mates yacht while he panders to evry whim of the Russian Puppet master but dont mention the massive ego of his predesessor as that would be highly disrespectful icon_lol.gif yeah right.

Objectivity to me is being sure about a problem before you take action to fix it and at this time I dont think Grant has been the reason for any problems we have had in fact I think he has coped with and helped us avoid problems in the main,

I am not talking about a couple of substitutions or even losses but more the total collapse that some foresaw as happening after the mutual departure of the total ego maniac,

as I have said I don't have to explain to you lot that I have a different opinion of what a fair crack is in terms of time to change a team that I believe were on the slide and would have (IMO) won nothing this season to a team with a different approach to games that with a few new players to help implement that different approach could play entertaining Football while still being favourites to win most competitions.

No I have'nt seen too much entertainment and dont expect to without some new faces but I did'nt see much last season or the start of this either.

Again as I have said I dont have a bias, I just believe a man that has put the money Roman has into the club has a right to try what he thinks will be right, If he is satisfied so far with a lot more insight into what happens in training and behind closed doors than any of us has then I for one don't begrudge him his right to give his choice of manager more time.

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Because I defend his actions as I can often see his reasoning only means I am looking at his success or failure in an unbiased manner,

No more biased or unbiased than anyone else really - just with a different bias, I'd say.

Glad you put your two cents in ES, I thought we had agreed to disagree as you said when you PMd me, or was it that when you privately said you respected my opinion what you meant was but not in front of the rest of the gang icon_lol.gif

and you forgot to end with one of these which usually wins any argument for you 247.gif

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Chippy, I apologise if it seems I've been taking my frustration out on you...I just don't rate grant and can't understand why anyone would stick up for him...and yet fair play to you for staying positive

Thats the thing again though Brit, the difference in our opinions is so small that directing frustrations at each other is pretty ridiculas, we are effectively arguing over the fact that you in 6 months think you have seen enough to say Grant is inept and not fit to manage Chelsea, I in the same period dont feel I can make an informed appraisal, I have been slightly surprised we have kept up a realistic challenge in the league and have been surprised we have scored six goals twice (a thing we never done under the dirty chinned one) and that with a weakened squad we equalled our nine match unbeaten run, so although I realise we have a very good squad, I am not one of the people who thinks you dont need a good manager to win and wont right off as "Jose's team" or "Jose's will to win" the good results we have had while heaping scorn on Grant for the four defeats and ignoring the circumstances in two of them.

Its a shame Chelsea fans can't have a discussion and put views accross without the need for people to make statements as if they have the facts and try to belittle people with opposing opinions but if it stoops to that I will still argue my case and until Grant has me believing Roman is giving him too much undeserved rope, I wont be hanging him.

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