Final words on Mourinho, KDB, Lukaku and anything else

[ShedEnder91]

Martinez isnt the only Coach at Everton. Im sure they have fairly good coaches at a premier League Club. Its not like Stones would have been a completely different player in half a season under Josè. Hes an excellent manager. He is not God.

 

 

No, he's an excellent coach. Excellent coaches can make all the difference to a players development as I'm sure you're aware. He wouldn't have been the finished article after six months, but he might have been on a different path. 

 

 

From what I saw during the transfer season, it looked like Josè had dug in on Stones and didnt really want anyone else, wouldnt be the first time he went against advice due to his stubborness, which is part of why hes an excellent manager. Selling Cech was clearly done over Mourinhos head and from all accounts had nothing to do with Emenalo and everything to do With Roman granting Cech his wish of moving within the boundries of London as a personal favour. Thought that was  a classy move from our owner to be honest and with him We have an excellent record of signing players over the last 4 or 5 years since Emenalo came to Power. From all accounts I think hes done a splendid job even Mourinho praised him last summer when he got Fabregas and Costa signed quickly. Last year he couldnt deliver and from the evidence we have available its logical for me to assume Mourinho wanted certain players that werent available.

 

 

It might be logical for you to assume that and that's fine. I'm not going to argue about you being right or wrong, but personally I don't the same. I don't think any club can identify one target and pursue only them, because that's very rarely how deals work. There's constant communication between agents and clubs. These deals are months and sometimes years in the making.

 

I agree that the club did magnificently in summer 2014 to acquire targets quickly and with little fuss, but last summer was a disaster. I think you're possibly trying to have it both ways and say that Jose is able to limit what the club does in one sense, but can't stop us selling a player to a direct rival. Personally I'm not a fan of absolutes and think the truth is usually somewhere in the middle.

 

Djilibodji was a last minute signing that was easily available for a low sum of money that the club thought it might make profit on and from the looks of him in Germany he looks to be a an excellent signing.

 

 

Last-minute signings are rarely last-minute. Again, there's constant communication between representatives of clubs and this wasn't that. I don't agree he's an excellent signing either. I think he'll make a profit when we sell him but signing a 28 year old just for that is ridiculous when you're looking to strengthen the first-team squad.

 

 

I get it though, Emenalo is an easy figure to shoulder most of the blame as his role in the squad is unclear to some, he seemingly rose unfairly to a position of influence and then there was the Whole "the individual" incident.  From what one can gather he is in charge of the squad and what players to bring in, not to bring in. Those players are scouted by a large network so Emenalo is mostly relying on scouting reports that he would present to the board and the manager who then decide what players to purchase and its (again from what I can gather) up to Marina Grankovskaia (spelling?) to negotiate a deal. If a deal cant be negotiated, a New plan is put in Place. As for selling, it is uaully the technical Directors job to field offers for players the manager does not want and would like to get rid of for fresh capital. In the case of KdB, Mata and Lukaku, Josè would have been asked for input and when he said these players are not needed a sale would have gone through. Cech being the exception. Some of these decisions looked good immediately but have come back to bite us in the rear, It is what it is. I dont for a second belive that our board With Emenalo in front told Josè to bugger off and he couldnt get any signings to strengthen.

 

Broadly speaking yeah. Personally I can't say I was offended by what he said in the interview, I just think that a club of our supposed stature should hire people based on a solid track record and should then hold them accountable based on their track record in the job.

 

What I've never understood is why supporters of this club accept less than a club like Bayern would accept from someone in that role. Is it a self-esteem thing, that we shouldn't expect better because we're still stuck in that mindset from the 90s?

 

Personally, I think there's a reticence to criticise Roman in some ways. In that sense maybe Michael Emenalo is a surrogate for him, a patsy taking the flack. I just think that the club needs to be run professionally and it isn't at the moment, hence our current situation.

[Kablamo]

I'll make my feelings on the individual/fraud known in good time, but it can't also be ignored that there was one obvious deal for a central defender on the cards last summer. Toby Alderweireld. 

 

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/585748/Chelsea-Jose-Mourinho-defender-transfer-ne

 

A defender at the perfect age, who would have cost a quarter of what the unproven, overrated John Stones did. Actually, we wouldn't have had to pay anything as Atletico were quite desperate to have Filipe Luis back and were virtually giving Alderweireld away. Our board would have easily engineered that deal if given the go ahead. But someone clearly stood in their way.

 

He's been Spurs best defender this season, arguably the best in the Premier League and had come off the back of a very good year at Southampton where he had shown his versatility. Unfortunately for us, some muppet clearly didn't rate him and wasted the opportunity.

 

Mourinho ****ed up. Again. It's been a long running theme.

[Chelsbear]

I'll make my feelings on the individual/fraud known in good time, but it can't also be ignored that there was one obvious deal for a central defender on the cards last summer. Toby Alderweireld.

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/585748/Chelsea-Jose-Mourinho-defender-transfer-ne

A defender at the perfect age, who would have cost a quarter of what the unproven, overrated John Stones did. Actually, we wouldn't have had to pay anything as Atletico were quite desperate to have Filipe Luis back and were virtually giving Alderweireld away. Our board would have easily engineered that deal if given the go ahead. But someone clearly stood in their way.

He's been Spurs best defender this season, arguably the best in the Premier League and had come off the back of a very good year at Southampton where he had shown his versatility. Unfortunately for us, some muppet clearly didn't rate him and wasted the opportunity.

Mourinho ****ed up. Again. It's been a long running theme.

Fraud lol

The man's one off e most successful club managers in football history. He's won 3 EPL titles with a club who didn't win it in 50 years.

So indulge me in what makes him a 'fraud'?

Not many Chelsea fans hate Jose, some disappointed in him, others let down but not the down right contempt you seem to have for our greatest ever manager.

I smell a rat....

[Stim]

I'll make my feelings on the individual/fraud known in good time

 

Holy sh*t you haven't even gotten into it yet ?

[kiwi1691]

Is Stones the same player under Mourinho as he is under Martinez? 

 

Let's flip that - is Zouma the same defender under Martinez? Does coaching matter to a player's development at all?

 

Stones and Pogba - they were the only two players available? There weren't any others that a Technical Director with a huge network of scouts could identify? 

 

It was John Stones or Papy Djilobodgi and no middle ground? 

 

Why does Jose get to insist on signing Falcao, but not on selling Cech to Arsenal? I'm quite happy to include Jose in the discussion on acquiring players but I also think the blame should be shared. 

 

So what did the club actually do last summer to improve the squad?

If my memory serves me correctly the media claimed we tried for 

 

Stones- Everton were determined to keep him

Pogba- Juventus supposibly turned down 95 million Euro

Koke- Didn't want to leave atletico

Griezman- atletico wanted more than 56 mill pounds

Manolas- Last minute after Stones bid failed.

 

So you can't say the Board didn't support Jose. 

 

The point is Jose set unrealistic targets, the club tried to get those players, they were unable to do so. Surly Jose could have found realistic targets that would have strengthened the squad. 

Edited April 21, 2016 by kiwi1691

[ShedEnder91]

If my memory serves me correctly the media claimed we tried for 

 

Stones- Everton were determined to keep him

Pogba- Juventus supposibly turned down 95 million Euro

Koke- Didn't want to leave atletico

Griezman- atletico wanted more than 56 mill pounds

Manolas- Last minute after Stones bid failed.

 

So you can't say the Board didn't support Jose. 

 

The point is Jose set unrealistic targets, the club tried to get those players, they were unable to do so. Surly Jose could have found realistic targets that would have strengthened the squad. 

 

I didn't ask what the media reported because that isn't even 10% of the players we were linked to. I asked what the club actually did to improve this squad?

 

We won the league under Jose - what did we then do to retain it? 

 

That's without getting into who finds these targets, or the fact that the club has failed to significantly improve title-winning squads in the past. I honestly don't think we can just blame Jose.

[Krc-fan]

 he was relatively unknown, 

 

   

[KonaKai Blue]

I didn't ask what the media reported because that isn't even 10% of the players we were linked to. I asked what the club actually did to improve this squad?

We won the league under Jose - what did we then do to retain it?

That's without getting into who finds these targets, or the fact that the club has failed to significantly improve title-winning squads in the past. I honestly don't think we can just blame Jose.

You don't know what went on behind the scenes but as you saw with Stones, the club tried and in the end were priced out. You only have to look at Real Madrid's transfer activity last summer to realise the difficulty of the market. They signed no one of significance which clearly shows how hard this market is. You can't just knock the board for not backing Jose when you have 0 idea about what efforts were made to sign those who would've improved us.

Jose aswell as every single player are 100% to blame for this seasons slump. You don't go from Champions to cannon fodder with the same group of players losing at home to injury stricken promoted teams and expect the board to take the blame for the managers self implosion

[ShedEnder91]

You don't know what went on behind the scenes but as you saw with Stones, the club tried and in the end were priced out. You only have to look at Real Madrid's transfer activity last summer to realise the difficulty of the market. They signed no one of significance which clearly shows how hard this market is. You can't just knock the board for not backing Jose when you have 0 idea about what efforts were made to sign those who would've improved us.

 

I'm not saying it's an easy job acquiring players, just like it's not an easy job coaching a top team. What I'm saying is that the results are really all that matters and the club failed last summer. This isn't merely me trying to say that Jose wasn't wholly to blame, this is me saying that things need to change so Conte doesn't suffer the same fate.

 

I understand that for some it's very easy to lay the blame solely on Jose - Jose's gone after all, ergo everything is better now. But seasons like this don't just happen because one cog in the machine fails. In any business where something like this happens you'd be looking at a systemic failure.

 

 

Jose aswell as every single player are 100% to blame for this seasons slump. You don't go from Champions to cannon fodder with the same group of players losing at home to injury stricken promoted teams and expect the board to take the blame for the managers self implosion

 

We're expanding the blame at last. I agree, Jose, the players and the board need to take their fair share of the blame.

 

You can't start with the Eva incident, or the first game, or pre-season etc. but for me it goes all the way back to February. There were obvious weaknesses in the squad and either they weren't identified or they weren't fixed. We've been over this a thousand times though and I'm sure you can remember the bullet points.

 

What's reassuring is that the club seems to be making moves now to fix the even bigger problems we face, but rather than being in a position of strength like they were last summer, they're in a much weaker position. There was a huge opportunity for us to really take that next step and the club blew it. We'll each remember and explain that in our own way.

[big blue]

Just a final word on last summers lack of transfer activity. Obviously I don't think mourinho was happy with the squad, and the club did try to get him some big signings but they failed.

Maybe the reason we didn't go after a 20-30m replacement for pogba or stones was because the club didn't want give mourinho another Cuadrado. Maybe the club decided it was best to keep as much money in the kitty as they can last summer, and then go for pogba and stones big time this summer with the new TV money available to spend.

What ever the reasoning it has backfired in a way no one could have predicted, and Mourinho and the players underperformed more than the board did in the summer imo.

Hopefully lessons have been learned, and Conte gets what needs to push us back into Europe.

Edited April 22, 2016 by big blue

[Essien19]

If my memory serves me correctly the media claimed we tried for

Stones- Everton were determined to keep him

Pogba- Juventus supposibly turned down 95 million Euro

Koke- Didn't want to leave atletico

Griezman- atletico wanted more than 56 mill pounds

Manolas- Last minute after Stones bid failed.

So you can't say the Board didn't support Jose.

The point is Jose set unrealistic targets, the club tried to get those players, they were unable to do so. Surly Jose could have found realistic targets that would have strengthened the squad.

Therefore the board got us the likes of Papy and Hector. Thanks to good ol' Jose. [emoji2]

Because it's always a good idea in the last week of the transfer window to make some offers.

I think Talkchelsea is more up to your constant mouning, you're trying too hard, kiwi.[emoji4] proper Jose complex. [emoji8]

[Sexyfootball]

It is going to get even harder to recruit top players now that more clubs are awash with money and/or have rich owners ... I very much doubt that Everton's new owner is thinking about selling his prize defensive asset for example.

 

 

In general there seems to be a worldwide shortage of good fullbacks, defensive midfielders, decent wingers and "goal a game" (or every two games) strikers.

 

In this environment, the clubs which will prosper are those with managers who can actually manage and "coach", who can take what they have in the squad, and make the team better than the sum of the parts, who can develop players, bring on youth, make a journeyman into a seasoned international, and make the "star" players deliver in every game. Pochettino and Ranieri are this season's most obvious PL exponents of this, but I also think Eddie Howe and Ronald Koeman are other excellent examples of managers who have their club punching above their fighting weight ....

 

I am not sure the extremely highly paid Jose Mourinho has ever managed a side who truly 'punched above their weight', so I for one am delighted that he will be some other clubs problem from now on ... and with any luck Conte will actually play some football that is worth watching while he is earning his corn doing some proper "managing and coaching".

 

 

In terms of players, we don't have Lukaku or DeBruyne any more ... they have gone. So moving forwards who is the next Lukaku or DeBruyne in our ranks ? Maybe Conte can get Solanke, Abraham, Musonda, Boga, Baker et all to really kick on and deliver, so we can enthuse about what we do have rather than what we don't ?

 

That may be a pipe dream and we may yet get the annual (or bi-annual!) flashing of the billionaire bollocks to see who can acquire the biggest, flashiest, most expensive set of toys.

 

Interesting times ahead either way I suppose ... and hopefully exciting and entertaining rather than frustrating and turgid ...  :-)

[ShedEnder91]

 

I am not sure the extremely highly paid Jose Mourinho has ever managed a side who truly 'punched above their weight', so I for one am delighted that he will be some other clubs problem from now on ... and with any luck Conte will actually play some football that is worth watching while he is earning his corn doing some proper "managing and coaching".

 

 

Like Porto when he won the Champions League? Or Inter when he defeated arguably the greatest club team of all time? What about all the players who have been coached by him and enthuse about his coaching skills and how he helped make them better players? Why don't their views count?

 

The rush to sh*t on Mourinho's legacy is something rather distasteful in my opinion, but at least make sense. He's got more than enough flaws that we don't have to start making stuff up hasn't he?

Edited April 22, 2016 by ShedEnder91

[dkw]

 

 

I am not sure the extremely highly paid Jose Mourinho has ever managed a side who truly 'punched above their weight', 

So so stupid.

[Sexyfootball]

So so stupid.

 

Yet to see one decent post from you since I joined this site ... won't hold my breath ...

[dkw]

Yet to see one decent post from you since I joined this site ... won't hold my breath ...

Try posting less stupid then.

[Sexyfootball]

Try posting less stupid then.

 

A different opinion to yours is not stupid, just different ...  first season back JM won NOTHING ... mostly did worse in every competition than did Benitez the season before  ...  second season he managed to turn a team that was flogging everybody into the footballing equivalent of Devon Loch, though fortunately we were far enough ahead that it didn't matter ... I don't think we need to say any more about the third season ... this is not a guy who overachieved with Chelsea ... he did the bare minimum with the resources at this disposal, for which he was paid a small fortune to boot ...

 

 

Why do you always have to make derogatory personal remarks about other posters anyway ?

 

 

Just as well no-one seems to care about the Site Rules in here ... #3 seems to get ignored with impunity ...

Edited April 22, 2016 by Sexyfootball

[dkw]

You said, and I quote..

"I am not sure the extremely highly paid Jose Mourinho has ever managed a side who truly 'punched above their weight', "

When that is exactly the thing he did do to make his name and the reason we signed him as manager. That's not opinion, that's actual fact.

[Sexyfootball]

He managed the best team in Portugal ... and then won a cup competition in Europe with huge dollops of luck and bending of the rules ...  granted it was well spun by him and his agent though ...

[ShedEnder91]

He managed the best team in Portugal ... and then won a cup competition in Europe with huge dollops of luck and bending of the rules ...  granted it was well spun by him and his agent though ...

 

And then he won the league in England, then Italy, then Spain, then Italy.

 

Do you think success is something you get given to you? I don't understand the need to denigrate people's achievements.

[dkw]

He managed the best team in Portugal ... and then won a cup competition in Europe with huge dollops of luck and bending of the rules ...  granted it was well spun by him and his agent though ...

So so stupid.

[Sexyfootball]

So here we are at a Mexican stand off, and we can go on all night backwards and forwards if you like guys ...

 

I am just not as impressed as you at someone with huge resources delivering what he has at Chelsea  ...  football is a bit like Formula One ... the driver who has the best car tends to win the most races and is "World Champion" ...  but he is not necessarily the best driver ...

 

ANYWAY

 

 

Plenty of other non-Mourinho points in my original post ... any opinions or comment on anything else I wrote ?

[ShedEnder91]

 

Plenty of other non-Mourinho points in my original post ... any opinions or comment on anything else I wrote ?

 

I think that's going to prove fruitless for everyone because some of your points are a little, particular? Discrediting someone's achievements because you don't like his football and it wasn't presumably sexy enough isn't going to get a chat going.

 

Hopefully Conte proves to be a coach you enjoy so you don't have to work out an angle from which to discredit his Serie A wins. 

[Orpington_Blue]

He managed the best team in Portugal ... and then won a cup competition in Europe with huge dollops of luck and bending of the rules ...  granted it was well spun by him and his agent though ...

 

Mo from arsenal fan tv has joined TheShedEnd. What a great day.

[Sexyfootball]

I think that's going to prove fruitless for everyone because some of your points are a little, particular? Discrediting someone's achievements because you don't like his football and it wasn't presumably sexy enough isn't going to get a chat going.

 

Hopefully Conte proves to be a coach you enjoy so you don't have to work out an angle from which to discredit his Serie A wins. 

 

Your patronising remarks aside, yes I hope you are right ... deep down inside we would all love a bit of decent football to watch ... it's very obvious from reading the match threads :)