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drift wood & deadwood


Zola

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After yesterday's result (and the other defeats leading up to this), our weaknesses have really been highlighted, in defence, in midfield and upfront.

We have too many passengers now, players who are all too comfortable in their roles... that big wage hitting the bank account every month now seems the norm. In my opinion, there seems a definite lack of hunger and urgency at times.

Sure, after the first half we came out fighting and did very well for a short while, then the heads seem to drop again / urgency slows.

Why do our players constantly need their arses kicked to produce? Compare that with Utd, their reputation comes from eternal hard graft and never giving up, even if they are playing some awful stuff, they can still produce the points. Why can't we? Our squad is every bit as good...

Well.... maybe age has finally caught up, after years of pundits declaring so.

Despite players like Terry saying they are always fighting for their place every week, realisitically they're not having to do all that much to keep it. On Terry, its clear he needs a reliable partner beside him, Luiz is a rocket and only cares about bombing forward. It's been said before..... and I think its right, putting Luiz in midfield seems like the right choice. He is a great footballer going forward, as a defender he is a complete liability.

If Luiz was in Mikel's role, at least we have the engine in Ramires to cover for him when he goes way out of position. Luiz would probably foul no more than Mikel anyway!!!

I reckon we need to bring in 6 proven talents, and by proven I mean premier league proven, if possible. Look at what Fergie has done at United with youngsters like Jones; young hungry lads with a bright career who already know the league and opposition well.

I think we need to either bench or else ship out the following:

  1. Bosingwa - not good enough as a right back when actually defending
  2. Mikel - Slow, unimaginative, zero creativity
  3. Malouda - Slow, getting older, predictable, no signs of improving
  4. Anelka - getting on, we need to clear space for new recruits

Terry, if partnered correctly can still maintain his place for a year or two yet, but he absolutely needs be placed with someone reliable. Not someone like Luiz, who has limited experience as a professional and also as a premier league player.

This high line stuff can work if we have the players. Right now we absolutely do not and I think we should go back to the cagey stuff, at least until we start winning a few games on the bounce.

Edited by Zola
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If money was avalible to get replacements then i would get rid of, Mikel,Kalou, Malouda,Anelka, Drogba (if the price was right)and Essien (only because i dont think he will ever be the player he was again). The problem with getting rid of a number of player is unless we get the right replacements then we will be left short like we was last season. I think we need a JT replacement as well, i fear he is struggling this season, it may just be a blip but to me he seems to be struggling with the high line.

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There are some that always mention Anelka to leave but never Drogba. The way I think about it is this, What is Drogba offering us that Lukaku isn't right now? We are holding on to a slow, ineffective Drogba when Lukaku could do the same thing, but gain experience. Most people agree that Lukaku isn't ready for first team football, but I would say that he is being just as productive as Drogba. Yes, Drogba could kick it in and play at a higher level, but he hasn't shown that this year. I think if we get offers in Jan., they have to be seriously thought about.

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The word on the street is that Chelsea want him for another season and he is holding out coz he wants another 2 years. I think if a team like AC Milan come in for him in Jan then better to sell him and get some money than hold on to him and let him go down him.

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There are some that always mention Anelka to leave but never Drogba. The way I think about it is this, What is Drogba offering us that Lukaku isn't right now? We are holding on to a slow, ineffective Drogba when Lukaku could do the same thing, but gain experience. Most people agree that Lukaku isn't ready for first team football, but I would say that he is being just as productive as Drogba. Yes, Drogba could kick it in and play at a higher level, but he hasn't shown that this year. I think if we get offers in Jan., they have to be seriously thought about.

Don't include me on that - I've been saying offload Drogba for some time.

I know we have to factor in how much he has given us over the seasons and what a top striker he has been. But there is no room for sentiment in football as SAF has shown time and time again. No matter how good a player HAS been and no matter if they have achieved legendary status with the club and supporters, when they are on that slippery slope, you have to make the tough decision and say thanks but so long.

Drogba

Malouda

Anelka

Kalou

Mikel

(just so long with Kalou and Mikel - don't worry about the thanks!)

And we're not too far away from saying the same to Lamps, JT and Ash. Not saying we should get rid of all in one go but because we have dragged our feet, it needs doing sooner rather than later.

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It's all about the money.

If we had spent big on the right players starting a few years back we wouldn't be in this mess right now. The combination of managerial merry-go-round and lack of spending (or spending on the wrong players, like 50m on Torres) is what caused the eventual collapse. Plus, Arnesen virtually wasted five years and countless sums without uncovering a single young talent capable of breaking into the starting eleven. Roman probably felt he could save money by cherry picking the top young talent from across the world but he picked the wrong man for the job.

To a large degree, an emergence of Man City as the new biggest spenders in 2008 hurt us,too. It started with Robinho and continued from then on. The likes of Adam Johnson, David Silva and others would very likely end up at the Bridge if it wasn't for the new found riches at the blue side of Manchester.

As for our current team, there are so many holes to fill, it'll take not just another sizeable investment on Roman's part, it'll also require time and patience to rebuild it, and I'm not sure if RA is the patient sort. At this point in time half of the squad are either too old or not good enough.

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not sure what avb strategy is - he seems intent on rotation rather then best team each game, so the 'squad' players get a regular but ome of them not good enough.

so mikel, essien, drogs & kalou should go

I'd keep maloda cos he can do a job, and anelka still has the class in the right role

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Don't include me on that - I've been saying offload Drogba for some time.

I know we have to factor in how much he has given us over the seasons and what a top striker he has been. But there is no room for sentiment in football as SAF has shown time and time again. No matter how good a player HAS been and no matter if they have achieved legendary status with the club and supporters, when they are on that slippery slope, you have to make the tough decision and say thanks but so long.

Drogba

Malouda

Anelka

Kalou

Mikel

(just so long with Kalou and Mikel - don't worry about the thanks!)

And we're not too far away from saying the same to Lamps, JT and Ash. Not saying we should get rid of all in one go but because we have dragged our feet, it needs doing sooner rather than later.

responding to the first part of your post, same as that mate.it amuses me when fans drag up that old chestnut about drogba having 2 or 3 good seasons left in him because he was a late starter blah blah.Now i dont have a crystal ball,and maybe he has got a lot to offer still,but after this season i`d rather he proved it right or wrong somewhere else.

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After yesterday's result (and the other defeats leading up to this), our weaknesses have really been highlighted, in defence, in midfield and upfront.

We have too many passengers now, players who are all too comfortable in their roles... that big wage hitting the bank account every month now seems the norm. In my opinion, there seems a definite lack of hunger and urgency at times.

Sure, after the first half we came out fighting and did very well for a short while, then the heads seem to drop again / urgency slows.

Why do our players constantly need their arses kicked to produce? Compare that with Utd, their reputation comes from eternal hard graft and never giving up, even if they are playing some awful stuff, they can still produce the points. Why can't we? Our squad is every bit as good...

Well.... maybe age has finally caught up, after years of pundits declaring so.

Despite players like Terry saying they are always fighting for their place every week, realisitically they're not having to do all that much to keep it. On Terry, its clear he needs a reliable partner beside him, Luiz is a rocket and only cares about bombing forward. It's been said before..... and I think its right, putting Luiz in midfield seems like the right choice. He is a great footballer going forward, as a defender he is a complete liability.

If Luiz was in Mikel's role, at least we have the engine in Ramires to cover for him when he goes way out of position. Luiz would probably foul no more than Mikel anyway!!!

I reckon we need to bring in 6 proven talents, and by proven I mean premier league proven, if possible. Look at what Fergie has done at United with youngsters like Jones; young hungry lads with a bright career who already know the league and opposition well.

I think we need to either bench or else ship out the following:

  1. Bosingwa - not good enough as a right back when actually defending
  2. Mikel - Slow, unimaginative, zero creativity
  3. Malouda - Slow, getting older, predictable, no signs of improving
  4. Anelka - getting on, we need to clear space for new recruits

Terry, if partnered correctly can still maintain his place for a year or two yet, but he absolutely needs be placed with someone reliable. Not someone like Luiz, who has limited experience as a professional and also as a premier league player.

This high line stuff can work if we have the players. Right now we absolutely do not and I think we should go back to the cagey stuff, at least until we start winning a few games on the bounce.

Agree with you totally here mate,time for the younger squad players to get their chance,maybe play for the shirt and show some passion an pride.

Which is sadly lacking and so f##king depressing for me at the moment.

Edited by belfast kern
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Despite players like Terry saying they are always fighting for their place every week, realisitically they're not having to do all that much to keep it. On Terry, its clear he needs a reliable partner beside him, Luiz is a rocket and only cares about bombing forward. It's been said before..... and I think its right, putting Luiz in midfield seems like the right choice. He is a great footballer going forward, as a defender he is a complete liability.

I'm afraid I don't agree with this at all. While he does often give away fouls that's a natural part of a centre back's game, especially one who is forced into constant ball-pressing action such as Luiz. To demonstrate this I'll look at Pique's stats: I think you'll agree with me that Pique is generally regarded as one of the best centre backs around and is certainly not considered a defensive liability.

Disciplinary record:

Pique: 6 yellows in 8 starts (3 sub)

Luiz: 5 yellows in 7 starts (0 sub)

Not a lot of difference there. The one stat where they do differ however is in giving away fouls; Luiz has an average of 2.8 per game (the highest in the team) and Pique's is a disciplined 0.8 per game. If Luiz is making mistakes they aren't huge ones, he just needs to be a little less naive in the challenge perhaps?

This statistical slip on Luiz's part is forgiven slightly when we look at his other defensive stats. Here is a comparison between him and JT in terms of their interceptions against Liverpool (they made the same number of successful and unsuccessful tackles):

luizvsjtinterceptions.png

Luiz seems like the model of the modern centre back; he wipes the floor with JT in this respect. In fact his stats for the season are equally impressive, as David Luiz is statistically the best in the entire team at all of the following:

Interceptions p/g: 3.7 (next best is 2.4)

Offsides won p/g: 1.7 (next best is 1.1)

Clearances p/g: 6 (next best is 5.2)

Blocked shots p/g: 1 (next best is 0.5)

He does like to surge forward libero-style on occasion, but the extent of it is far more exaggerated than commonly perceived. In fact, looking at the average positions of the players on the field against Liverpool, he's still playing deeper than the infamously dour Mikel:

averagepositionsvsliverpook.png

Attacking impetus in a centre back doesn't automatically make him a defensive liability, and it certainly doesn't mean that he only cares about going forward. I think a few yellows and cheap fouls ('teething problems') are a very worthy sacrifice for a player of his calibre, both offensively and defensively.

N.B. In addition, the various detractors of Mikel will be pleased/interested to know that Jonathan Wilson also shares their view:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/jonathan_wilson/11/21/mikel/index.html#ixzz1eQrKX5kv

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Don't include me on that - I've been saying offload Drogba for some time.

I know we have to factor in how much he has given us over the seasons and what a top striker he has been. But there is no room for sentiment in football as SAF has shown time and time again. No matter how good a player HAS been and no matter if they have achieved legendary status with the club and supporters, when they are on that slippery slope, you have to make the tough decision and say thanks but so long.

Drogba

Malouda

Anelka

Kalou

Mikel

(just so long with Kalou and Mikel - don't worry about the thanks!)

And we're not too far away from saying the same to Lamps, JT and Ash. Not saying we should get rid of all in one go but because we have dragged our feet, it needs doing sooner rather than later.

Firstly, I agree with the five you mention. I would love to see them gone. Their time has run out. At Chelsea at least.

Regarding Drogba, he cannot run. It is that simple. We are fielding a player that cannot run, which is ridiculous. By "cannot run" I mean "cannot run". He has also lost all his strength.

Malaria takes two years to leave the system. I fear the illness had a profound effect on him. He is 34 now (I think). AVB needs to have the balls to cast him aside. He offers us practically nothing. It's been the same for over a year. You get picked on merit, on what you're producing, or you should do. The manager needs to make the call.

I'd still pick him over Anelka though, and therein lies our problem. We do not have strikers that can hurt you. Sturridge is the only one, and he's a long way off being the finished article. What chance do we have? If I was a defender, the only striker of ours I'd have any reservations about playing against is Sturridge.

Problem indeed. Look at our competitors, in England and Europe, see what they have up front, then worry.

Torres was a monumental misjudgement, and hopefully it's taught Roman a lesson.

Where I don't agree with you is Lamps, JT and Ash. They need not be cast aside. They have a lot to offer still but perhaps not every week. Remember, the likes of Scholes, Giggs, Neville etc at Utd, still making a contribution well into their 30s. Passing on good habits and a winning mentality to the new breed. Players with the club in their heart. That's what we want.

However it's clear we need replacements, as these players are not able to perform at their optimum every week, like before. They need rotating as they get older and they will have to accept it if they want to perform at the top level and compete for prizes. However their replacements must be of the requisite calibre. They need genuine competition for places, if only to up their game. Right now, they know they're playing most weeks, if not all.

Drogba is a different story. His attitude dictates that he must leave. He has been a great player for us, a leader, a warrior, a big game player and a winner, but I don't see him playing second fiddle to Torres or anyone else for that matter. Not anymore. I think he can become a disruptive influence and I think he has a lot of influence over the African and French-speaking contingent, because he is such a big personality. There was a time when he would vie with Crespo or whoever for the top spot, but that was then, before he cemented his reputation, before he was a superstar, and I don't think he has the head for it anymore. I want him gone. Remember, it was Jose that would rotate him, and Jose had stature, he had authority, Drogba deferred to him, he was younger. I just don't see Drogba taking it on the chin under AVB. Just a hunch.

At the moment, AVB is neither backing Torres or backing Drogba, and that's a problem, as without that backing, neither player is willing to die for him, both are moody in my opinion, and Torres has proven himself mentally weak. The manager needs to back Torres, for the simple reason we paid £50m for him, he is better than Drogba, and Sturridge is needed on the right because there is no-one else. I'm afraid AVB is forced in a corner on that one, for the moment at least. Torres is not his fault but he's stuck with him, and he must back him. It's our best option. The manager needs to be decisive. At least Torres will feel backed and try his best to vindicate that backing, wanting to repay the manager, which is what you need.

It's a tough call because Drogba will not take to it kindly, hence you risk "losing" him, but that's the deal, and it's one that needs sorting in the summer, hopefully with the removal of Anelka, Drogba, possibly Torres and the introduction of a top-notch striker, which we are currently lacking and which we need. There are a few about. If we sign one however Torres must go, because we don't want the same problem we have with Drogba. It may be a case of cutting our losses. We have Sturridge and Lukaku, but we need a top-notch striker they can learn from, and one who deserves a place in the starting line-up.

On another note, I can't believe Anelka, Drogba and Kalou will all leave on frees this summer. Bad planning or what? We should have dispensed last summer, as is becoming painfully obvious, and for which the manager must take responsibility. Jose came in and dispensed with the deadwood immediately, and that's what AVB should have done. As it is, we won't get any money for them.

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Where I don't agree with you is Lamps, JT and Ash. They need not be cast aside. They have a lot to offer still but perhaps not every week. Remember, the likes of Scholes, Giggs, Neville etc at Utd, still making a contribution well into their 30s. Passing on good habits and a winning mentality to the new breed. Players with the club in their heart. That's what we want.

I agree, but unfortunately, that is where we differ from Man Utd. Perhaps it's because our three England Internationals have just got too big and hold too much influence but whereas Utd are able to leave their older players out of the side, we clearly have difficulty in doing so. We have more than adequate cover for Ash and Lamps and both need to start being left out immediately. But we all know it won't happen. We are going to get every last bit out of them so they won't be able to play anywhere else afterwards (may be something to do with the last contracts we handed out to them?).

As for JT, I know he is a lot more than a centre back. When he isn't about we lack any real leadership and I do worry over who will possibly pick up the reigns when he's no longer about. But we do need to start preparing for that day. Anyone know how Bruma is getting on at Hamburg? He looked a stand out at reserve and youth level although I know he had a couple of iffy performances when he played for nthe first team (but you'd expect that at his age - even Phil Jones makes mistakes here and there).

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I agree, but unfortunately, that is where we differ from Man Utd. Perhaps it's because our three England Internationals have just got too big and hold too much influence but whereas Utd are able to leave their older players out of the side

It's probably because they [Lamps & JT] have been the only constants at Chelsea over the past 10 years. Owners, Managers, sponsors, Executives, training complexes etc... all have come and gone in 10 years whilst those 2 have stood firm.

No one has outlasted Sir Alex at this level.

Edited by Gem
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I believe we had issues offload some players in summer. Now with the rumoured interest in Drogba and Anelka from several clubs, perfect opportunity to cut them loose, even just to cut 200k a week wage bill for the 2. With the money saved, we can get a real winger for a change, and give Lukaku some games. Look at the recent games from Drogba, it's sad to admit Lukakau couldn't have done much worse.

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The Malaria bullsh*t is back !! Fantastic .. . ::clap2::

Well, whether it is the effects of malaria (I got it right, it is not "affects") or just age, Drogba is a shadow of his former self. And someone wrote earlier that he is incapable of running, which is so true nowadays.

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Anyone know how Bruma is getting on at Hamburg? He looked a stand out at reserve and youth level although I know he had a couple of iffy performances when he played for nthe first team (but you'd expect that at his age - even Phil Jones makes mistakes here and there).

I timed that one well!!

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