You can't expect others to do a job for him, of course others have been poor to but that doesn't make excuses for his constant individual errors.

I do agree that other areas also need looking at, protecting the back four was an art form last season yet we're struggling this season to do that. I am suprised he hasn't gone for a Zouma-Matic midfield.

 

That wasnt my point mah man, I meant that if other players were playing well, ivan wouldnt be exposed all day because they would get shut down before it gets to 1v1, which is where ivan is weakest atm.

 

Yes he isnt pulling his weight in his position, but if the team, Aren't a team then hes going to evenually conceive ground and players will pass him if they are constantly getting 1v1 full speed.

 

Back 4 needs better protection as well as the back 4 needing to sort themselves out.

 

Some of our genius tactics seem to have disappeared in the way we play and I'm seeing us constantly conceding ground which in turn pins us in and puts it all on the defence constantly, result being a goal conceded - inevitable unless we literally parked a london bus in front of the goal using some corrupt fifa clause!!!!

 

Jose always use to have us shutting things down before there is any danger but this has seemingly vaporized.

 

Cant help but feel everyone's been looking for a scapegoat out of frustration for the season so far which is fair enough but isn't exactly constructive!!

Edited October 14, 201510 yr by Bigthrobberus

That wasnt my point mah man, I meant that if other players were playing well, ivan wouldnt be exposed all day because they would get shut down before it gets to 1v1, which is where ivan is weakest atm.

Yes he isnt pulling his weight in his position, but if the team, Aren't a team then hes going to evenually conceive ground and players will pass him if they are constantly getting 1v1 full speed.

Back 4 needs better protection as well as the back 4 needing to sort themselves out.

Some of our genius tactics seem to have disappeared in the way we play and I'm seeing us constantly conceding ground which in turn pins us in and puts it all on the defence constantly, result being a goal conceded - inevitable unless we literally parked a london bus in front of the goal using some corrupt fifa clause!!!!

Jose always use to have us shutting things down before there is any danger but this has seemingly vaporized.

Cant help but feel everyone's been looking for a scapegoat out of frustration for the season so far which is fair enough but isn't exactly constructive!!

I don't disagree with that but Ivan's goal scoring exploits covered up his faults as a defensive right back last season. I think he is part of the overall problem and I think dropping him would go a long way to solving the issue.

how many people on here have won (by playing or coaching) any trophies in professional football - not school boy trophies either ?

 

 

 

waiting...................

 

 

 

 

didn't think so

 

 

 

so lets leave it up to one of the best mangers in the world then !

 

 

as you do rightly say, if he's in fact wrong, he will without a doubt eventually lose his job, one he obviously feels passionately about keeping to boot  (no pun intended  lol)

So because we're not professional coaches our opinions count for nothing? You do know this is a forum right?

Ivanovic's form has definitely improved as the season has gone on and IMO he has actually been ok for the last few game, yes he hasn't been brilliant but he hasn't been as atrocious as everyone id making out, any RB in the world with 90% of attacks occurring down their flank will eventually have a goal conceded against them even if they haven't made a mistake all game. Yes oppositions deploying this tactic has occurred due to his really poor form in the first few weeks but does that really mean he should be subjected to all the tripe people have been writing about him? 

Ok for the last few games?  What tripe is this?

That wasnt my point mah man, I meant that if other players were playing well, ivan wouldnt be exposed all day because they would get shut down before it gets to 1v1, which is where ivan is weakest atm.

 

Yes he isnt pulling his weight in his position, but if the team, Aren't a team then hes going to evenually conceive ground and players will pass him if they are constantly getting 1v1 full speed.

 

Back 4 needs better protection as well as the back 4 needing to sort themselves out.

 

Some of our genius tactics seem to have disappeared in the way we play and I'm seeing us constantly conceding ground which in turn pins us in and puts it all on the defence constantly, result being a goal conceded - inevitable unless we literally parked a london bus in front of the goal using some corrupt fifa clause!!!!

 

Jose always use to have us shutting things down before there is any danger but this has seemingly vaporized.

 

Cant help but feel everyone's been looking for a scapegoat out of frustration for the season so far which is fair enough but isn't exactly constructive!!

 

At a club like chelsea, the defense need to be able to stand on their own.. A defender who loses most of his one on one battles simply  need to be replaced

I havent come across any CFC fan who thinks any ill of Ivanovic and I still believe he has a lot to offer the club, but a competitive game is no place to gain lost form especially if we are so far behind the leading pack. He should be gaining that form on the training ground and should be re-embedded in the team gradually. Everyone can see that the guy is not enjoying his game and needs to be taken out of the limelight for a few games and hopefully come back fitter and with more confidence.

 

I don't buy the argument that he is not getting cover, he plays for Chelsea where the expectation is for us to win the league therefore our wingers primary objective is to create opportunities in the last 1/3rd not provide defensive cover for our RB. Both our Full backs will from time to time find themselves isolated especially against teams such as Crystal Palace and Southampton at home it is there job to deal with those situations not blame the lack of cover. 

I havent come across any CFC fan who thinks any ill of Ivanovic and I still believe he has a lot to offer the club, but a competitive game is no place to gain lost form especially if we are so far behind the leading pack. He should be gaining that form on the training ground and should be re-embedded in the team gradually. Everyone can see that the guy is not enjoying his game and needs to be taken out of the limelight for a few games and hopefully come back fitter and with more confidence.

I don't buy the argument that he is not getting cover, he plays for Chelsea where the expectation is for us to win the league therefore our wingers primary objective is to create opportunities in the last 1/3rd not provide defensive cover for our RB. Both our Full backs will from time to time find themselves isolated especially against teams such as Crystal Palace and Southampton at home it is there job to deal with those situations not blame the lack of cover.

Well matic did exactly that for our defence last year, part of the reason we won the league was because the back 4 were protected well and then often dealt with anything that got through.

Well matic did exactly that for our defence last year, part of the reason we won the league was because the back 4 were protected well and then often dealt with anything that got through.

 

That is because Matic is a Defensive Midfielder his Primary objective in the team is to provide defensive cover (especially through the middle)

 

Our wingers have a duel role where they have to attack and provide cover for the Full backs but they shouldnt be baby sitting the full backs against the likes of Crystal Palace and Southampton.

That is because Matic is a Defensive Midfielder his Primary objective in the team is to provide defensive cover (especially through the middle)

 

Our wingers have a duel role where they have to attack and provide cover for the Full backs but they shouldnt be baby sitting the full backs against the likes of Crystal Palace and Southampton.

matic was flying from one side of the pitch to the other, often seeing players out the sidelines helping our defence out wide as well as essentially everywhere else!

If a player starting for a team aiming to be counted among the best teams in the world cant be counted on to win a 1v1 matchup, he simply isnt fit to start. I really dont think hes fit to start

If a player starting for a team aiming to be counted among the best teams in the world cant be counted on to win a 1v1 matchup, he simply isnt fit to start. I really dont think hes fit to start

This is the problem for me as well. When you are pulling teammates away from their duties because you cant be trusted to defend 1v1 you need to go. Sure every player makes mistakes but the manner in which teams have targeted and exposed Bran is what does it. At this point any opposing winger is delighted to see his name on the team sheet. Cant have that

This is just a snippet of something I read earlier I can't remember the link but it's on this forum somewhere

'Let's also settle on something that many people tend not to take into account. Full backs should never defend 1v1 against elite wingers. Elite wingers are elite wingers because they can succeed more often than not at beating their man. A full back losing a "1v1" (the very restricted portion of space and time which can be regarded as a 1v1) happens all the time, but with proper cover support and midfielders properly cutting off passing lanes, the winger is generally doomed to give the ball away shortly after.

The situation that is very wrong with Ivanovi? right now is that he has to deal with elite wingers on his own and has no support whatsoever around him. He is the last one to blame, for failing to repeatedly accomplish the feat of winning the ball back when backpedalling against a Premier League winger who had space to gather pace to take on him.

This probably explains why a two-time Champions League and 8 times League winning manager has maintained his trust in him despite worldwide Twitter backlash'

This is just a snippet of something I read earlier I can't remember the link but it's on this forum somewhere

'Let's also settle on something that many people tend not to take into account. Full backs should never defend 1v1 against elite wingers. Elite wingers are elite wingers because they can succeed more often than not at beating their man. A full back losing a "1v1" (the very restricted portion of space and time which can be regarded as a 1v1) happens all the time, but with proper cover support and midfielders properly cutting off passing lanes, the winger is generally doomed to give the ball away shortly after.

The situation that is very wrong with Ivanovi? right now is that he has to deal with elite wingers on his own and has no support whatsoever around him. He is the last one to blame, for failing to repeatedly accomplish the feat of winning the ball back when backpedalling against a Premier League winger who had space to gather pace to take on him.

This probably explains why a two-time Champions League and 8 times League winning manager has maintained his trust in him despite worldwide Twitter backlash'

 

He's been ripped apart by basically everyone he's faced this season, even Walsall gave him the run around, that's hardly elite.

That is because Matic is a Defensive Midfielder his Primary objective in the team is to provide defensive cover (especially through the middle)

Our wingers have a duel role where they have to attack and provide cover for the Full backs but they shouldnt be baby sitting the full backs against the likes of Crystal Palace and Southampton.

It is their job if their manager says so, which was the case last season but mainly favregas and matic helping out so I do agree they shouldn't be relying on wingers too much

Edited October 16, 201510 yr by MemphisKrabz

This is just a snippet of something I read earlier I can't remember the link but it's on this forum somewhere

'Let's also settle on something that many people tend not to take into account. Full backs should never defend 1v1 against elite wingers. Elite wingers are elite wingers because they can succeed more often than not at beating their man. A full back losing a "1v1" (the very restricted portion of space and time which can be regarded as a 1v1) happens all the time, but with proper cover support and midfielders properly cutting off passing lanes, the winger is generally doomed to give the ball away shortly after.

The situation that is very wrong with Ivanovi? right now is that he has to deal with elite wingers on his own and has no support whatsoever around him. He is the last one to blame, for failing to repeatedly accomplish the feat of winning the ball back when backpedalling against a Premier League winger who had space to gather pace to take on him.

This probably explains why a two-time Champions League and 8 times League winning manager has maintained his trust in him despite worldwide Twitter backlash'

 

Does Walsall, Crystal Palce, Swansea and Southampton have elite wingers?

 

Are you advocating to continue playing Ivanovic?

Does Walsall, Crystal Palce, Swansea and Southampton have elite wingers?

 

Are you advocating to continue playing Ivanovic?

 

Swansea have Montero and Ayew, Southampton have Mane and Tadic, Crystal Palace have Zaha and Bolasie. All either top class talent oraz already elite wingers.

Does Walsall, Crystal Palce, Swansea and Southampton have elite wingers?

 

Are you advocating to continue playing Ivanovic?

more like he's advocating to justify jose action, he can't do no wrong for some people.. 

Does Walsall, Crystal Palce, Swansea and Southampton have elite wingers?

Are you advocating to continue playing Ivanovic?

With the exception of Walsall yes you seriously underate premier league players with that comment.

If those teams have "elite" wingers, then there are roughly 20-30 elite wingers in the prem and the word elite has the same meaning as above average.

Azpi never had troubles with any of them. And neither did Ivan up untill last year

Edited October 17, 201510 yr by Xfaxtor

If those teams have "elite" wingers, then there are roughly 20-30 elite wingers in the prem and the word elite has the same meaning as above average.

Azpi never had troubles with any of them. And neither did Ivan up untill last year

You gotta be pretty good to get first team placement on any prem team maybe people's conception of the word elite differs I don't care I just copied the words from an article anyway, it was more to just point out maybe Jose thinks the problem isn't the full back but maybe the midfield in which case he isn't going to change his best rb of last season

Edited October 17, 201510 yr by MemphisKrabz

This is just a snippet of something I read earlier I can't remember the link but it's on this forum somewhere

'Let's also settle on something that many people tend not to take into account. Full backs should never defend 1v1 against elite wingers. Elite wingers are elite wingers because they can succeed more often than not at beating their man. A full back losing a "1v1" (the very restricted portion of space and time which can be regarded as a 1v1) happens all the time, but with proper cover support and midfielders properly cutting off passing lanes, the winger is generally doomed to give the ball away shortly after.

The situation that is very wrong with Ivanovi? right now is that he has to deal with elite wingers on his own and has no support whatsoever around him. He is the last one to blame, for failing to repeatedly accomplish the feat of winning the ball back when backpedalling against a Premier League winger who had space to gather pace to take on him.

This probably explains why a two-time Champions League and 8 times League winning manager has maintained his trust in him despite worldwide Twitter backlash'

Good point well made, I think we all can agree that tackling a winger 1v1 is no mean feat especially when they have built up a head of steam. I also think we can agree that Ivanovic of the last 5 or so years would be coping better than he is now and would be winning the ball back slightly more often as well as forcing wingers into worse positions so they can't put in as an effective ball. All full backs will eventually be beaten by a Winger and losing the occasional 1v1 is going to happen. 

Ivanovic has got himself into the position where he is being targeted and we as a team aren't protecting the flank which is being overloaded as well as we should be, this leaves Ivanovic having to deal with a lot of 1v1, meaning he will get beaten a few times during the game (any RB would) and thus this gets highlighted, leading to further scrutiny of the player and more and more attacks down his flank. Its a viscous cycle and even if Ivanovic got back to his best I believe this would still continue as he would still be beaten from time to time and the media will still highlight it and use it as evidence of poor form.

I feel sorry for the guy as he has definitely been improving as the season has gone on and he is certainly getting better a coping with the amount of 1v1's he has to deal with but sadly the scrutiny is unlikely to go away, and for that reason i think its a good thing he has got this injury as time away from the side will hopefully improve the situation.  

more like he's advocating to justify jose action, he can't do no wrong for some people..

Shut up.

It's a good point, and why all midfielders are expected to cover full backs now, total team defence as advocated by the much fawned over Barcelona team. Ivanovich has been hung out and isolated too much, but that's not excusiing his poor decision making and his bizarre fear of contacting an attacker, he just backs off all the time now, and I have no idea why.

Shut up.

It's a good point, and why all midfielders are expected to cover full backs now, total team defence as advocated by the much fawned over Barcelona team. Ivanovich has been hung out and isolated too much, but that's not excusiing his poor decision making and his bizarre fear of contacting an attacker, he just backs off all the time now, and I have no idea why.

Spot on. the stick Ivan has got is a little unjustified but he still has no excuse to just not try, he could still put the effort in, and I think that's enough reason to give baba a shot.

The problem is the team is way too imbalanced. Ivanovic needs protection, Terry needs protection, Cesc needs protection. If we carry on 'protecting' wouldn't that limit what other players are meant to be doing?