On 09/02/2017 at 17:45, enigma said:

Seriously, this is why keeping Costa is imperative. There are no other world class strikers out there which aren't already at top clubs. The only attainable ones there seem to be are young strikers with potential. If wr want to challenge on all fronts next season and beyond, we need a little more than mere "potential" tbh. 

Not disagreeing with you, but there's Aubameyang as a world class alternative that is attainable.

Edited February 23, 20179 yr by brenobnfm

1 hour ago, brenobnfm said:

Not disagreeing with you, but there's Aubameyang as a world class alternative that is attainable.

There's that word being bandied about again. In terms of output so far Lukaku isn't far behind him either. Pretty stunning considering Auba is in his prime, Lukaku is just entering it. 

Auba would be great for our team, I've been saying that for a while but he is definately not the only player that is attainable we could replace Costa with, god forbid. Nobody seemed to agree but in the Morata thread I said I thought he was essentially a like for like replacement for Costa and he is certainly attainable. Griezmann is probably also in that category, I wouldn't bet he's playing for Atleti this time next season. 

Personally I hope we aren't as dependent on our ST to score next season as we have been. Thats kind of how it goes for a few teams, us and United for example would be a few places down in the table if Costa and Zlatan weren't carrying the goal scoaring load. (They more so than us) I see no reason why Bats, another ST and an additional player couldn't make up the goals we'll lose if Costa goes, god forbid. It may actually be beneficial to us from an unpredictability standpoint to have threats from other positions.

Edited February 23, 20179 yr by TheChelseaBlues

10 hours ago, TheChelseaBlues said:

There's that word being bandied about again. In terms of output so far Lukaku isn't far behind him either. Pretty stunning considering Auba is in his prime, Lukaku is just entering it. 

Auba would be great for our team, I've been saying that for a while but he is definately not the only player that is attainable we could replace Costa with, god forbid. Nobody seemed to agree but in the Morata thread I said I thought he was essentially a like for like replacement for Costa and he is certainly attainable. Griezmann is probably also in that category, I wouldn't bet he's playing for Atleti this time next season. 

Personally I hope we aren't as dependent on our ST to score next season as we have been. Thats kind of how it goes for a few teams, us and United for example would be a few places down in the table if Costa and Zlatan weren't carrying the goal scoaring load. (They more so than us) I see no reason why Bats, another ST and an additional player couldn't make up the goals we'll lose if Costa goes, god forbid. It may actually be beneficial to us from an unpredictability standpoint to have threats from other positions.

In my opinion Lukaku doesn't have what it needs to be a top striker, goals are not everything, and for the price Everton will ask i'd much rather buy a prime world class striker (Auba) or a young striker with better attributes. Not sure about Morata being this guy too and Griezmann would cost too much. That's only my opinion of course.

1 hour ago, brenobnfm said:

In my opinion Lukaku doesn't have what it needs to be a top striker, goals are not everything, and for the price Everton will ask i'd much rather buy a prime world class striker (Auba) or a young striker with better attributes. Not sure about Morata being this guy too and Griezmann would cost too much. That's only my opinion of course.

So you'd be looking for a cheap young player with incredible potential or a world class player who doesn't cost a lot. You've boxed yourself in haven't you? What makes you think Griezmann would be so much more than Auba? Both will cost their next clubs damn near 80m surely 

 

Lukaku will likely have a high price since he'd be staying in England and while Everton don't have to sell, we didn't either when we sold him to them and I'd say 30m was a fair price at the time, even more so when you look back on it. I personally don't think we'll be signing him anyway. 

1 hour ago, TheChelseaBlues said:

So you'd be looking for a cheap young player with incredible potential or a world class player who doesn't cost a lot. You've boxed yourself in haven't you? What makes you think Griezmann would be so much more than Auba? Both will cost their next clubs damn near 80m surely 

 

Lukaku will likely have a high price since he'd be staying in England and while Everton don't have to sell, we didn't either when we sold him to them and I'd say 30m was a fair price at the time, even more so when you look back on it. I personally don't think we'll be signing him anyway. 

A world class player would cost a lot nonetheless, but Auba himself said that he wants to leave, a think he would cost a lot but not even close to Griezmann, who plays for a top club and at least until now never said that he wants to leave. I think Auba should cost about 40~60 because he is not that young, wants to leave and Dortmund never sell for absurd amounts. Griezmann supposedly have a 84M release clause, but if he doesn't, he would cost even more, probably transfer record money.

Auba plays for a top club as well. If someone only has to pony up 40-60m for Auba then they've committed robbery. We'll have to disagree on that for now

On 23/02/2017 at 14:10, brenobnfm said:

goals are not everything,

You couldn't be further from the truth.

2 hours ago, coco said:

You couldn't be further from the truth.

No, let's see Heynckes' Bayern for example, when they lost to us they had Mario Gomez, a striker as prolific as it gets. The season after when they we're unbeateble, the striker was Mandzukic, who didn't score as much but offered much more than goals to the team, so no, i'm on the truth side.

IMO who thinks that a striker only needs to be a goalscorer is clueless. Being a great goalscorer is essential, but not enough.

 

On 23/02/2017 at 15:14, TheChelseaBlues said:

Auba plays for a top club as well. If someone only has to pony up 40-60m for Auba then they've committed robbery. We'll have to disagree on that for now

So if i'm right on Auba's price, you'd agree then? Alright then.

Edited February 26, 20179 yr by brenobnfm

4 minutes ago, brenobnfm said:

IMO who thinks that a striker only needs to be a goalscorer has no football knowledge.

And IMO anyone who thinks "Being a great goalscorer is not enough." is barking bloody mad.

22 minutes ago, coco said:

And IMO anyone who thinks "Being a great goalscorer is not enough." is barking bloody mad.

It's not, it's actually pretty much common census. 

19 hours ago, brenobnfm said:

It's not, it's actually pretty much common census. 

Can you direct me to other people who think being a great goalscorer is not enough? 20-25 goals per season players, regardless of other aspects of their game, are critical to any teams they're in. Show me one player who nets regularly who isn't valuable. 

4 hours ago, RMCM said:

Can you direct me to other people who think being a great goalscorer is not enough? 20-25 goals per season players, regardless of other aspects of their game, are critical to any teams they're in. Show me one player who nets regularly who isn't valuable. 

Mario Gomez: 39 and 41 goals in subsequent seasons, was not enough for Bayern, who got a upgrade in Mandzukic, a player that scores less but offers more. Latter they got the ideal striker in Lewandowski, who scores a lot but is a complete player all around.

Huntelaar: 48 goals in a season playing in a BL side, was not enough for Real Madrid and Milan because all he could do was score goals. 

Benteke: 23 goals in a season playing for a PL side, was not enough for Liverpool who aren't even a top side.

Ibrahimovic: Destroyed League One with 500 goals per season, while PSG got wrecked by the top teams in CL. Look at them now with a striker that scores less but presses much more.

 

This list goes on, if a player scores a lot, principally if it's for a lower level team, doesn't mean he will replicate or it will be enough on the highest level.

9 minutes ago, brenobnfm said:

Mario Gomez: 39 and 41 goals in subsequent seasons, was not enough for Bayern, who got a upgrade in Mandzukic, a player that scores less but offers more. 

If you have two strikers, and one of them scores treble the amount as the other, you think that the player who scored treble the goals has less to offer than a more creative striker who barley scores ?

 

39 minutes ago, brenobnfm said:

Mario Gomez: 39 and 41 goals in subsequent seasons, was not enough for Bayern, who got a upgrade in Mandzukic, a player that scores less but offers more. Latter they got the ideal striker in Lewandowski, who scores a lot but is a complete player all around.

Huntelaar: 48 goals in a season playing in a BL side, was not enough for Real Madrid and Milan because all he could do was score goals. 

Benteke: 23 goals in a season playing for a PL side, was not enough for Liverpool who aren't even a top side.

Ibrahimovic: Destroyed League One with 500 goals per season, while PSG got wrecked by the top teams in CL. Look at them now with a striker that scores less but presses much more.

 

This list goes on, if a player scores a lot, principally if it's for a lower level team, doesn't mean he will replicate or it will be enough on the highest level.

Prime Mario Gomez was infinitely better than Mandzukic, who is solid, but can't get into the Juventus side because of Gonzalo Higuain, who is a top finisher. Bayern replaced Mandzukic with a player who . . . surprise surprise, scores more goals.

Huntelaar, again, was a top striker. He was sold because he was coming to the end of his career. As tends to happen. 

Benteke was at his level at Villa, and was key to them finishing where they did in the table, he couldn't adapt to liverpool's playstyle, and hence didn't score as many goals for them. 

Ibra. Wow, the fact that you are bringing up one of the best strikers on the planet for the last who's decade as not good enough baffles me. Ibra carried an average PSG team for years, they allowed him to leave and bulked out their entire squad.  

That is, quite honestly, one of the silliest posts i've ever seen. All of those strikers you listed were amazing players for their teams, and apart from benteke, were only sold coming into the twilight of their careers. I'm not one to bash posts normally but your argument is totally void. 

7 hours ago, RMCM said:

Can you direct me to other people who think being a great goalscorer is not enough? 20-25 goals per season players, regardless of other aspects of their game, are critical to any teams they're in. Show me one player who nets regularly who isn't valuable. 

If goals were all that mattered Chicharito would be a world class striker. Hes not. Drogba had a goal average of  0.4 in the prem with us, he was still world class. The ability to create, to press, the hold up play, defensive ability also cones in to play here. 

12 minutes ago, Xfaxtor said:

If goals were all that mattered Chicharito would be a world class striker. 

He's only scored 97 club goals in 11 years, not exactly a prolific striker is he ? Got any more ?

9 minutes ago, coco said:

He's only scored 97 club goals in 11 years, not exactly a prolific striker is he ? Got any more ?

Hes a 25+ goalscorer for Leverkusen wasnt that what was talked about? Watering down his total to include the years at Utd seems like cherry picking. Id take Drogba over anyone in the prem for the last 15 years despite him beeing less prolific

Edited February 27, 20179 yr by Xfaxtor

52 minutes ago, Xfaxtor said:

Hes a 25+ goalscorer for Leverkusen wasnt that what was talked about? Watering down his total to include the years at Utd seems like cherry picking. Id take Drogba over anyone in the prem for the last 15 years despite him beeing less prolific

I went back through his WHOLE club career to prove he isn't a prolific scorer, you included one season of 25 goals as your proof, as if that's more relevant than the full total i included, and you say i'm cherry picking, work that one out ???

36 minutes ago, coco said:

I went back through his WHOLE club career to prove he isn't a prolific scorer, you included one season of 25 goals as your proof, as if that's more relevant than the full total i included, and you say i'm cherry picking, work that one out ???

Hes on his way this year as well, so thats back to back seasons. Your stats dont provide any context, but fine lets take his whole career. He has a more goals per minutes in the prem then Costa, RvP,  Drogba, Suarez and Harry Kane. 

I am Belgian and Blues fan, never understood why they sold him in the first place, and hardly gave him a chance. 

When Costa is staying, I agree Lukaku would not be compatible with him since they both have a similar style of playing.

And why Batshuayi is getting so little chances, another talent on the way out? :(

Goals are the best metric for a striker obviously, but it is not the be all and end all of it either. Like someone mentioned Drogba is the perfect example of this. Link up play and getting others involved is just as important I feel - or in our cause Drogba was the perfect lone striker who could hold up the ball and wait for reinforcements. Sheva had an amazing scoring record but couldn't replicate it in our system, which is clear we needed something more. So alot depends on the style of play as well. I am sure a Hernandez or a Higuain would of been just as prolific as Sheva in his AC MIlan team which was built for the strikers such as Inzaghi and Sheva.

With Lukaku though, my frustration with him is that he is not clinical enough. Drogba had a knack of scoring important goals, and I just don't see Lukaku with that same composure - he seems to rather bang in several against the weaker teams, and is generally wasteful (based on seeing him, would be interested what the analytics say on wastefulness).

Edited March 7, 20179 yr by Saru

Lukaku on the verge of a new five-year deal with Everton.

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/776007/Romelu-Lukaku-Everton-contract-Mino-Raiola-announcement-Chelsea-transfer-news-gossip

I don't think it really matters tbh, they will still sell him if that's his wish. This just ensures they get a hefty sum should he leave.

If they don't finish top 4 he will be gone, new contract or not. In an interview he did last week he talked about his desire to play on the big stage. You don't have to be clever to work out what he's saying.

21 hours ago, coco said:

If they don't finish top 4 he will be gone, new contract or not. In an interview he did last week he talked about his desire to play on the big stage. You don't have to be clever to work out what he's saying.

Yep, i can't see him staying if they don't get any European football next season. If Lukaku wants to make a step up in his career, he needs to be playing in the European competitions.