2 minutes ago, OriginalS said:

Badiashile can't be blamed for Caicedo's error. He clearly wants to ball to his feet and play it on to Cucurella but Caicedo somehow manages to miss him by two yards.

There's just zero reason for Badishille to stand still like that even if he wants it to his feet. There's no downside to him carrying on jogging towards goal while still asking for the ball, especially when he is already being pressed. 

Caicedo did the logically thing which was to pass the ball slightly forward into a bit of space to make it easier for Badishille to pass it to Cucu or pass back to GK. 

1 minute ago, Ukraine Bolt said:

Look how Badiashile completely stops moving, what player do you know that's ever this flat footed when asking to receive a pass? 

He's slowing down to recieve the ball. Caicedo is running with his head down and is passing without looking where exactly Badiashile is and misses him by two yards. It's a bloody awful pass.

Almost feels extra awful because I had such high hopes for Caicedo but he's been such a flop and his catalogue of mistakes this season is enormous.

 

I actually thought he looked imperious before that pass... was really impressive display he was putting int, then it was a case of rebuilding his confidence. 

didnt do too badly afterwards... but the damage was done and this sides confidence is brittle to say the least. confidence and game time will fix it. 

7 minutes ago, OriginalS said:

He's slowing down to recieve the ball. Caicedo is running with his head down and is passing without looking where exactly Badiashile is and misses him by two yards. It's a bloody awful pass.

Almost feels extra awful because I had such high hopes for Caicedo but he's been such a flop and his catalogue of mistakes this season is enormous.

 

Slowing down? He's pretty much at a full stop, if he was slowing down he would have still been able to react to the pass. Caicedo probably didn't look cause he didn't expect Badishille to be that stupid and just stop like that. It's a standard pass to a CB that is pressed with his back turned. Quite literally textbook, you can't do it any other way without greatly increasing risk. 

No way any City or Arsenal CB's do what Badishille did. 

2 minutes ago, Remodez said:

Quite literally textbook, you can't do it any other way without greatly increasing risk. 

Oh stop it. It's a simple pass to Badiashile's feet who would then pass to Cucurella and Uniteds half hearted press would be broken.

3 minutes ago, OriginalS said:

Oh stop it. It's a simple pass to Badiashile's feet who would then pass to Cucurella and Uniteds half hearted press would be broken.

It is textbook stuff, I don't know how else to explain it to you. Just like you are taught as a CB when passing the ball to the GK to pass away from the goal.

The same outcome would have been achieved (or the option to pass to GK who could then long pass to Cucu so you can beat the press that way as well) even if Badishille kept jogging towards goal into the space the pass was played into, there was zero reason for him to stop like that. 

A player makes a clear as day mistake in not assessing the threat or danger around before making a misplaced, heavy pass and yet some how it's the other player that is recipient of pass at fault. 

So let's recap, 

1. Lack of situational awareness 

2. Not anticipating the danger around. 

3. Passing the ball to your player with a heavy touch and away from him. 

But somehow it's the other players fault. It's not like Badashile didn't have a badly sh*tty game but let each player carry his own sh*t.

Talk about blinded by being a fan boy. 

 

 

 

6 minutes ago, abister1 said:

A player makes a clear as day mistake in not assessing the threat or danger around before making a misplaced, heavy pass and yet some how it's the other player that is recipient of pass at fault. 

So let's recap, 

1. Lack of situational awareness 

2. Not anticipating the danger around. 

3. Passing the ball to your player with a heavy touch and away from him. 

But somehow it's the other players fault. It's not like Badashile didn't have a badly sh*tty game but let each player carry his own sh*t.

Talk about blinded by being a fan boy. 

 

 

 

Absolutely.  It was a howler by Caciedo.  You could see even he realised that (he really needs grinning lessons from Sterling though).

No denying Badiashile was as impressive as a Ghostbusters remake but that goal was on Caciedo.

3 minutes ago, abister1 said:

A player makes a clear as day mistake in not assessing the threat or danger around before making a misplaced, heavy pass and yet some how it's the other player that is recipient of pass at fault. 

So let's recap, 

1. Lack of situational awareness 

2. Not anticipating the danger around. 

3. Passing the ball to your player with a heavy touch and away from him. 

But somehow it's the other players fault. It's not like Badashile didn't have a badly sh*tty game but let each player carry his own sh*t.

Talk about blinded by being a fan boy. 

 

 

 

I already said both are at fault, ultimately Caicedo still made the pass instead of playing it safe and going back to GK so some blame to be assigned to him but if I'm the manager I would be fuming at what Badishille did. 

No one has yet to give a good reason as to why Badishille stopped because there is none, it makes no logical sense. The pass to Cucu is still on even if he keeps on jogging backwards towards his goal. 

Let's say Badishille did get the ball to feet in that position, there is an increased risk of him taking a bad touch or making a scuffed pass. Now let's assume he did the logical thing and kept going backwards, all of a sudden he gets the ball in space, way less of a risk of a bad touch, easier passing options and also easier to make the pass in general. 

If you look back in the thread I've probably been one of the most critical of Caicedo but in this instance, I find it hard to blame him solely. 

13 minutes ago, Remodez said:

I already said both are at fault, ultimately Caicedo still made the pass instead of playing it safe and going back to GK so some blame to be assigned to him but if I'm the manager I would be fuming at what Badishille did. 

No one has yet to give a good reason as to why Badishille stopped because there is none, it makes no logical sense. The pass to Cucu is still on even if he keeps on jogging backwards towards his goal. 

Let's say Badishille did get the ball to feet in that position, there is an increased risk of him taking a bad touch or making a scuffed pass. Now let's assume he did the logical thing and kept going backwards, all of a sudden he gets the ball in space, way less of a risk of a bad touch, easier passing options and also easier to make the pass in general. 

If you look back in the thread I've probably been one of the most critical of Caicedo but in this instance, I find it hard to blame him solely. 

I'd like to think that I'm in a different league when it comes to being critical of Caicedo!

I want him to do well, but I just haven't seen ANYTHING, that makes me think he's even a top 6 player. With the defence as fragile as it is currently, boy are we crying out for a midfielder who can cover and be an enforcer. In the past we have had Essien, Makalele, Matic and Kante. Sadly, Caceido will never come close to any of these. Bang average.

 

 

 

Moisés Caicedo

Fee: £115m
Wages: £150k per week
Games: 37
Goals: 0
Assists: 2
Assists for the opposition: 10?
Yellow cards: 10

54 minutes ago, Remodez said:

to give a good reason as to why Badishille stopped

I'll indulge you this once. 

Situational awareness. 

Admittedly he doesn't have a lot of it but in that moment he had enough to realise ithat the best play was a pass to the goalkeeper. There was no need for him to run to anywhere to receive a pass with a player snapping at Caicedo's heels and two others behind him in such a way they will close him down at a near 45° angle forcing him into a mistake or passing back to the goalie. 

Hence if Caicedo was reading the game as well, he should have cut out those risky steps by going back to the goalie as he was already closed down in such a way he could either dribble his way out (highly unlikely with the space and angles) or run back towards the goal with the ball. 

1 minute ago, abister1 said:

I'll indulge you this once. 

Situational awareness. 

Admittedly he doesn't have a lot of it but in that moment he had enough to realise ithat the best play was a pass to the goalkeeper. There was no need for him to run to anywhere to receive a pass with a player snapping at Caicedo's heels and two others behind him in such a way they will close him down at a near 45° angle forcing him into a mistake or passing back to the goalie. 

Hence if Caicedo was reading the game as well, he should have cut out those risky steps by going back to the goalie as he was already closed down in such a way he could either dribble his way out (highly unlikely with the space and angles) or run back towards the goal with the ball. 

And even if he still decided to ignore the danger and make the pass, it was a god damn awful one. 

47 minutes ago, Nibs said:

I'd like to think that I'm in a different league when it comes to being critical of Caicedo!

I want him to do well, but I just haven't seen ANYTHING, that makes me think he's even a top 6 player. With the defence as fragile as it is currently, boy are we crying out for a midfielder who can cover and be an enforcer. In the past we have had Essien, Makalele, Matic and Kante. Sadly, Caceido will never come close to any of these. Bang average.

 

To date I'm in agreement Nibs.  Really struggling to see a quality player hiding underneath what, so far, has been predominantly mediocrity. 

However I would say that the whole team, bar a small number of exceptions, has been pretty awful and he is still in his first season and still young.  So not writing him off yet but next season needs to see a big improvement 

5 minutes ago, loz said:

To date I'm in agreement Nibs.  Really struggling to see a quality player hiding underneath what, so far, has been predominantly mediocrity. 

However I would say that the whole team, bar a small number of exceptions, has been pretty awful and he is still in his first season and still young.  So not writing him off yet but next season needs to see a big improvement 

Come on Loz - it's unlike you to not write off a player - however early.

Add him to your CHO and Mudryk list!

Edited April 5, 20242 yr by Nibs

Just don't think this type of football favors anybody. Unless your names are Palmer and Gallagher. 

9 minutes ago, loz said:

To date I'm in agreement Nibs.  Really struggling to see a quality player hiding underneath what, so far, has been predominantly mediocrity. 

However I would say that the whole team, bar a small number of exceptions, has been pretty awful and he is still in his first season and still young.  So not writing him off yet but next season needs to see a big improvement 

I'm not going to write him off yet as a decent midfielder because you can see sometimes he does the role well. 

My issue at the time of trying to buy him, now and probably forever based on how I evaluate player values is that he never was a player that should cost that much after 1 good season at Brighton. 

He makes too many mistakes and whilst no one is above mistakes, they tend to be costly. 

You can see what they (the players I mean , mainly midfield and back line) try to do sometimes and maybe it is the coaching element, they go for the second pass most times and try to zip it quickly along but they are not precise enough with their passing. 

It happens too often so I know it comes from the training ground instructions. Maybe they are not good enough to execute such passes yet as they are precision passes that need proper execution to achieve what you're trying to, which is literally play through the opposition. 

If other aspects of the team like our defensive organisation was up to standard, we probably won't get punished as much but sadly it isn't so we tend to get punished. 

26 minutes ago, abister1 said:

I'll indulge you this once. 

Situational awareness. 

Admittedly he doesn't have a lot of it but in that moment he had enough to realise ithat the best play was a pass to the goalkeeper. There was no need for him to run to anywhere to receive a pass with a player snapping at Caicedo's heels and two others behind him in such a way they will close him down at a near 45° angle forcing him into a mistake or passing back to the goalie. 

Hence if Caicedo was reading the game as well, he should have cut out those risky steps by going back to the goalie as he was already closed down in such a way he could either dribble his way out (highly unlikely with the space and angles) or run back towards the goal with the ball. 

This doesn't make any sense as you can clearly see Badishille is demanding Caicedo pass the ball to him. Watch the clip above if you haven't.

Now that you can see Badishille is asking for the ball, please explain the reasoning behind him stopping his movement when he is actively looking to get involved in the play? 

I've already acknowledged Caicedo, in hindsight, should have taken the safer option and pass back to GK, no need to risk it really 2-0 up. What others seem to fail to notice however is how Badishille did everything possibly wrong in that situation to relieve the pressure. 

Edited April 5, 20242 yr by Remodez

14 minutes ago, Nibs said:

Come on Loz - it's unlike you to not write off a player - however early.

Add him to your CHO and Mudryk list!

Ok. He is a knacker. Be done with him!

I was right about CHO and I'll still wager Mudryk never develops into a top player.

I'll now exit stage left whistling my 'I know best' tune and not mention that I thought Winston Bogarde was a great signing when we made it.

1 hour ago, Nibs said:

I'd like to think that I'm in a different league when it comes to being critical of Caicedo!

I want him to do well, but I just haven't seen ANYTHING, that makes me think he's even a top 6 player. With the defence as fragile as it is currently, boy are we crying out for a midfielder who can cover and be an enforcer. In the past we have had Essien, Makalele, Matic and Kante. Sadly, Caceido will never come close to any of these. Bang average.

 

Ultimately it's an uphill battle trying to justify spending £100m on a midfielder. I also just don't believe he is a DM, he's just having to play there due to Lavia legs being gone. His best game for us came when he was playing more as a box to box and going forward I think that's where we will see him. 

3 minutes ago, Remodez said:

This doesn't make any sense as you can clearly see Badishille is demanding Caicedo pass the ball to him. Watch the clip above if you haven't.

Now that you can see Badishille is asking for the ball, please explain the reasoning behind him stopping his movement when he is actively looking to get involved in the play? 

I've already acknowledged Caicedo, in hindsight, should have taken the safer option and pass back to GK, no need to risk it really 2-0 up. What others seem to fail to notice however is how Badishille did everything possibly wrong in that situation to relieve the pressure. 

When you're playing football, we'll at least me, sometimes you give your man a shout to pass the ball to you and what seemed like a good shout 2 secs ago might not be when the pass is made as the opposition players aren't static and most likely moving in such a way that I might not want the ball again 2 secs later. It is what we do in every live moment. Constantly scanning, assessing, making decisions and re-evaluating them. Come on, t's almost like saying the goalie in his 6 yard has 2 players bearing down on him and asks for the ball. Do I give him the ball when I can sense he is in a dangerous situation and hasn't realised it. 

In football you can't see everything, your players see some and give you the shout as you do for them but even if you were Messi or Ronaldo who like to execute blind passes. 

They have already had a look and know how the game is progressing before making that pass. It is dependent on accurately reading the play and likely outcomes and obviously Caicedo isn't at that level. He didn't even make a blind pass, just fumbled an easy one. 

19 minutes ago, abister1 said:

When you're playing football, we'll at least me, sometimes you give your man a shout to pass the ball to you and what seemed like a good shout 2 secs ago might not be when the pass is made as the opposition players aren't static and most likely moving in such a way that I might not want the ball again 2 secs later. It is what we do in every live moment. Constantly scanning, assessing, making decisions and re-evaluating them. Come on, t's almost like saying the goalie in his 6 yard has 2 players bearing down on him and asks for the ball. Do I give him the ball when I can sense he is in a dangerous situation and hasn't realised it. 

In football you can't see everything, your players see some and give you the shout as you do for them but even if you were Messi or Ronaldo who like to execute blind passes. 

They have already had a look and know how the game is progressing before making that pass. It is dependent on accurately reading the play and likely outcomes and obviously Caicedo isn't at that level. He didn't even make a blind pass, just fumbled an easy one. 

I fully agree things can change in 2 seconds due to opposition but it does not apply in this instance. The only reason this went from a routine pass out the back to relieve pressure was because Badishille stopped moving. If he had 2 United players snapping at his heels within 2 seconds while still moving towards goal I would be more inclined to agree with you. 

Your GK example doesn't work because in that example the GK is already in a disadvantaged position, Badishille wasn't until he stopped moving. A better example would be a GK starts moving up the pitch in an attempt to recycle possession/beat the press when his team has a high line and then changes his mind and starts running back after already asking for the ball. 

Edited April 5, 20242 yr by Remodez

I think Remodez has a point looking back at the replay. Badiashile is caught flat footed when it clearly looks like Caicedo was passing to his stronger foot so he could pass it back to Petro. Both caught in two different minds. 

I do think Lavia at some point will be the one who comes in to take this burden off of Caicedo who isn't a lone DM. 

 

 

3 hours ago, OriginalS said:

He's slowing down to recieve the ball. Caicedo is running with his head down and is passing without looking where exactly Badiashile is and misses him by two yards. It's a bloody awful pass.

Almost feels extra awful because I had such high hopes for Caicedo but he's been such a flop and his catalogue of mistakes this season is enormous.

 

Who slows down to receive a ball when you have men closing you down? You'd be trying to create distance between yourself and the Utd players, not just completely stop your movement. It was another error from Badiashile. 

Both contributed to it, it was a poorly chosen pass but if Badiashile had read it and not just stopped it would likely have been a fairly straight forward pass back to the keeper by him on receiving it. But its symptomatic of our generally awful possession play when deep, especially against presses.

Edited April 5, 20242 yr by dkw