1 minute ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Then maybe Poch should stop comparing himself and situation to Klopp and Pep?

Yeah he probably should. 

Not really got much to do with Caicedo though does it? 

1 hour ago, Niall1905 said:

 

Yes Caicedo could be doing more and Poch should be getting more out of him, but its not a fair and equal comparison with any Liverpool player right now. In the same way that some of the players that Mourinho (particularly in his second stint) and Conte got some pretty average players to be big parts of a title winning squad. Victor Moses is a name that springs to mind. 

We had Mourinho when he was the best, Conte when he was one of the best. Poch simply isn't one of the best right now. I think hes doing an okay job at bringing the players to a better level than last year, but he hasn't transformed anyone into a world beater in the way that Klopp seems to get players going.

 

Caicedo isn't performing better than last year though, he's playing significantly worse.

If Poch can't improve someone as talented as Caicedo why would the club stick with him for the long term?

Just now, Gol15 said:

Caicedo isn't performing better than last year though, he's playing significantly worse.

If Poch can't improve someone as talented as Caicedo why would the club stick with him for the long term?

Sorry, do you mean stick with Poch or stick with Caicedo?

My post is in support of Caicedo, not Poch. He's being compared to players that have signed for one of the best managers in the world, whos strength is getting the best out of players. 

3 minutes ago, Niall1905 said:

Yeah he probably should. 

Not really got much to do with Caicedo though does it? 

Has to do with Klopp needing less time to work with less talented midfielders, given Poch certainly loves to compare his situation to his. 

If Poch needs more than 8 months to sort out a midfield containing 2 of some of the best young midfielders in the world, whereas he can fine tune the likes of MacAllister, Endo, and DOM almost immediately, then he needs to stop the foolishness of continuing to compare himself to Klopp. 

Caicedo had 1 full season in the Premier League before joining us, and he wouldn't be the first player to be a standout at Brighton before struggling with us. I'm not sure there is enough career data to conclude much about his form this season. Was his form last season an aberration? Is he just struggling to settle in a different club, or even handling the massive transfer fee that was involved? Could absolutely be Poch's system too. Only time will tell.

1 minute ago, forbzy said:

Caicedo had 1 full season in the Premier League before joining us, and he wouldn't be the first player to be a standout at Brighton before struggling with us. I'm not sure there is enough career data to conclude much about his form this season. Was his form last season an aberration? Is he just struggling to settle in a different club, or even handling the massive transfer fee that was involved? Could absolutely be Poch's system too. Only time will tell.

Mind you he's also fantastic for Ecuador. 

3 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Has to do with Klopp needing less time to work with less talented midfielders, given Poch certainly loves to compare his situation to his. 

If Poch needs more than 8 months to sort out a midfield containing 2 of some of the best young midfielders in the world, whereas he can fine tune the likes of MacAllister, Endo, and DOM almost immediately, then he needs to stop the foolishness of continuing to compare himself to Klopp. 

I meant more that, my post was in response to people slating Caicedo's performances in comparison to players like Endo and Macallister.

For which I would credit Klopp, more than complain about Caicedo and his ability. 

I only referenced Poch as the manager Caicedo is working with, being inferiror to Klopp. So I don't see how Poch comparing himself to Klopp is relevant. I agree, he shouldnt do it. But its not the point I am making.

17 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Mind you he's also fantastic for Ecuador. 

This the only team he seems to struggle in is US which begs the question why?

I don’t want the manager sacked but the only conclusion is he’s the main difference.

13 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Mind you he's also fantastic for Ecuador. 

I will take your word for it. I haven't watched much of Ecuador in the S. American qualifiers, but they were disappointing at the last World Cup and he didn't stand out for me. That being said, I do think he is a decent player and will improve for us once he settles in. My main issue with signing him (and Lavia) at the time were the ridiculous fees involved. 

1 minute ago, El regreso said:

This the only team he seems to struggle in is US which begs the question why?

I don’t want the manager sacked but the only conclusion is he’s the main difference.

We're 8 months in. Only player you can say improved is Gallagher. 

2 minutes ago, forbzy said:

I will take your word for it. I haven't watched much of Ecuador in the S. American qualifiers, but they were disappointing at the last World Cup and he didn't stand out for me. That being said, I do think he is a decent player and will improve for us once he settles in. My main issue with signing him (and Lavia) at the time were the ridiculous fees involved. 

He's used differently. Not a lone DM like he is here. 

31 minutes ago, Niall1905 said:

Sorry, do you mean stick with Poch or stick with Caicedo?

My post is in support of Caicedo, not Poch. He's being compared to players that have signed for one of the best managers in the world, whos strength is getting the best out of players. 

I mean to stick with Pochettino. The bare minimum for any manager should be to get the best out of Caicedo and Enzo and I'm starting to doubt if Pochettino can do it.

Is there even an amazing DM or CM player that Poch has managed to sign or develop? I actually googled it a bit now and the names of Moussa Sissoko and Tanguy Ndombele seem underwhelming.

38 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Then maybe Poch should stop comparing himself and situation to Klopp and Pep?

What people seem to never mention about these long term managers is Klopp, Fergie and Wenger were all in season appointments after underpeforming managers got sacked, so the logic works both ways.

9 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

We're 8 months in. Only player you can say improved is Gallagher. 

He's used differently. Not a lone DM like he is here. 

If you can see significant player improvement at this level after 1 year then that manager must be a magician. 

This thread is just crazy. Caicedo has been good this season. 

28 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

If you can see significant player improvement at this level after 1 year then that manager must be a magician. 

Depends on how you define significant. I'd like to see natural progression as time passes and we are 8 months into the season and I only need one finger where I can indefinitely say they improved since the start of the season. 

By your own logic Sarri must be a magician the way he took RLC another level. And we all know how you feel about Sarri. 

 

Edited February 28, 20242 yr by Sconnie Blue

3 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Depends on how you define significant. I'd like to see natural progression as time passes and we are 8 months into the season and I only need one finger where I can indefinitely say they improved since the start of the season. 

By your own logic Sarri must be a magician the way he took RLC another level. And we all know how you feel about Sarri. 

 

If he really improve Ruben then he was a magician but it was nothing. Ruben was one of the most talented player but he was very lazy which doesn't suit Conte's midfield. 

If a manager claim that he has improved player significantly after one season then he is talking nonsense. 

4 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

If he really improve Ruben then he was a magician but it was nothing. Ruben was one of the most talented player but he was very lazy which doesn't suit Conte's midfield. 

If a manager claim that he has improved player significantly after one season then he is talking nonsense. 

So a manager implementing a system that gets the best out of a player, isn't improvement.

Noted. 

 

56 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

This thread is just crazy. Caicedo has been good this season. 

I think he has been average at best. Good would mean he is playing a massive role in winning us games, but I'm not seeing that. I don't think he has been bad, but I wouldn't go as far as to say he has been good either. The amount of fouls he gives away is ridiculous. He's been a red card waiting to happen a lot this season.

There are only two players in our entire squad I would say are having a good season. Palmer and Petrovic. Gusto, Disasi, Silva and Colwill (when playing CB) have had good moments, but not enough for me to say they are having a good season. The rest have been poor. I don't know how this can be argued any other way either seeing as we are sitting 11th in the table.

42 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

I think he has been average at best. Good would mean he is playing a massive role in winning us games, but I'm not seeing that. I don't think he has been bad, but I wouldn't go as far as to say he has been good either. The amount of fouls he gives away is ridiculous. He's been a red card waiting to happen a lot this season.

There are only two players in our entire squad I would say are having a good season. Palmer and Petrovic. Gusto, Disasi, Silva and Colwill (when playing CB) have had good moments, but not enough for me to say they are having a good season. The rest have been poor. I don't know how this can be argued any other way either seeing as we are sitting 11th in the table.

Caicedo has had good games (mainly the ones where he had to freedom to get forward) but to say he has been good overall so far this season just goes to show how far our expectations have fallen. 

45 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

I think he has been average at best. Good would mean he is playing a massive role in winning us games, but I'm not seeing that. I don't think he has been bad, but I wouldn't go as far as to say he has been good either. The amount of fouls he gives away is ridiculous. He's been a red card waiting to happen a lot this season.

There are only two players in our entire squad I would say are having a good season. Palmer and Petrovic. Gusto, Disasi, Silva and Colwill (when playing CB) have had good moments, but not enough for me to say they are having a good season. The rest have been poor. I don't know how this can be argued any other way either seeing as we are sitting 11th in the table.

Come on, you can't leave Conor Gallagher out of the having a good season category ... I know you don't rate him but even so ... 

2 hours ago, Bob stark said:

If you can see significant player improvement at this level after 1 year then that manager must be a magician. 

And if the player becomes significantly worse how do you call then the manager? What's the opposite of a magician? 

7 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

And if the player becomes significantly worse how do you call then the manager? What's the opposite of a magician? 

Steven Gerrard

3 hours ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Has to do with Klopp needing less time to work with less talented midfielders, given Poch certainly loves to compare his situation to his. 

If Poch needs more than 8 months to sort out a midfield containing 2 of some of the best young midfielders in the world, whereas he can fine tune the likes of MacAllister, Endo, and DOM almost immediately, then he needs to stop the foolishness of continuing to compare himself to Klopp. 

Sure, but Liverpool has acquired players that fits Klopp for a good while now, while I doubt any of us would say Poch had much say in either of our signings. Its not a comparison to be made there, I think

2 hours ago, Sexyfootball said:

Come on, you can't leave Conor Gallagher out of the having a good season category ... I know you don't rate him but even so ... 

People have been massively overrating how good he has been because he is from the academy and runs around a lot. Personally, I think he has cost us so many points with terrible finishing, getting in other players way a lot of the time, and leaving massive gaps in midfield because he doesn't know how to hold his position and must chase the ball like a dog.

Edited February 28, 20242 yr by Scott Harris

56 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

People have been massively overrating how good he has been because he is from the academy and runs around a lot. Personally, I think he has cost us so many points with terrible finishing, getting in other players way a lot of the time, and leaving massive gaps in midfield because he doesn't know how to hold his position and must chase the ball like a dog.

That's not his fault. Blame the manager for making him so integral to the way we play. 

As far as output and effort goes, he's probably one of our best performers. He's not a goal scoring midfielder, he's a water carrier. Something every winning team needs.