19 minutes ago, just said:

No way is Southgate starting Palmer ahead of Foden Loz. Never in a million years. Shaw will probably start over Trippier and that's it.

Yep. Exactly what I think 

52 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

Kudos to your epic trolling today Axman. Looking forward to such positivity when Maresca gets going 🙂 

Epic Trolling lol, just telling at it is Sexy, Southgate constantly delivers for England but, as he said himself, the fans are entitled.

OK, I'm home and in front of the telly after a birthday dinner. Missed all the England hubbub, now watching the Oranje hubbub. 

Right. 1-0 down.

Oooh NCIS Hawaii is on another channel!

Edited July 6, 20242 yr by Valerie

52 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

Kudos to your epic trolling today Axman. Looking forward to such positivity when Maresca gets going 🙂 

Epic Trolling lol, just telling at it is Sexy, Southgate constantly delivers for England but, as he said himself, the fans are entitled.

Don’t think England could deal with the intensity of the Turks.  Would rather face the Dutch at this point.

3 Out of 4 semi’s for Southgate - Bobby Robson got knighted for one ! 
 

Whatever you think of Southgate he is the most successful England Manager behind Ramsay 

I think his "success" is linked more to the quality of players he has, over his tactics. He is a great man manager, never doubted that, but he's not a tactical manager.

Edited July 6, 20242 yr by Simplymo

We must have done this convo before ……. VVD must be the most overrated defender of all time, he turns like an oil tanker 

41 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Epic Trolling lol, just telling at it is Sexy, Southgate constantly delivers for England but, as he said himself, the fans are entitled.

When he has faced the opposition he has faced, he should be winning. But we are never winning because of tactics, we are winning because of moments of individualism. Put Southgate as manager of any side that didn't have the talent he has at his disposal, and they wouldn't even qualify. Was it Southgate's tactics that won the last two games for England? No, he was saved by two great goals. Like I said the other day, no coach sets their team up to have a few shots on target. He was once again tinkering with the formation today, and it didn't work. It didn't work because his football is trash.

If England win this tournament, it will be in spite of Southgate, not because of him. 

I think the Netherlands will suit us better though will we have to go to penalties yet again.

Sheesh, get Weghorst away from the camera!

1 hour ago, Valerie said:

OK, I'm home and in front of the telly after a birthday dinner. Missed all the England hubbub, now watching the Oranje hubbub. 

Right. 1-0 down.

Oooh NCIS Hawaii is on another channel!

Engerland v The Oranjes Val. Who do you want to win? 

37 minutes ago, andy said:

3 Out of 4 semi’s for Southgate - Bobby Robson got knighted for one ! 
 

Whatever you think of Southgate he is the most successful England Manager behind Ramsay 

Absolutely, yet he gets this:

 

20 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

When he has faced the opposition he has faced, he should be winning. But we are never winning because of tactics, we are winning because of moments of individualism. Put Southgate as manager of any side that didn't have the talent he has at his disposal, and they wouldn't even qualify. Was it Southgate's tactics that won the last two games for England? No, he was saved by two great goals. Like I said the other day, no coach sets their team up to have a few shots on target. He was once again tinkering with the formation today, and it didn't work. It didn't work because his football is trash.

If England win this tournament, it will be in spite of Southgate, not because of him. 

You don't really think this England side holds a candle to our golden  generation do you Scott?

 

Lamps, Gerrard, Scholes, Shearer, Owen, Ashley Cole, Campbell, Rio etc etc.

 

Probably only Kyle Walker gets in that England team, none of the rest compare to those talents. And yet Sven and Fabio, two excellent managers, could not do what Southgate has done with much, much less. 

Heck Terry Venables had a better group of talent in 96 and could not make the final.

1 hour ago, axman2526 said:

Epic Trolling lol, just telling at it is Sexy, Southgate constantly delivers for England but, as he said himself, the fans are entitled.

Congratulations ax on Canadad beating Venezuela on penalties to make the semis of the Copa America. Every chance to go on and win the trophy now. 

1 minute ago, axman2526 said:

Absolutely, yet he gets this:

 

You don't really think this England side holds a candle to our golden  generation do you Scott?

 

Lamps, Gerrard, Scholes, Shearer, Owen, Ashley Cole, Campbell, Rio etc etc.

 

Probably only Kyle Walker gets in that England team, none of the rest compare to those talents. And yet Sven and Fabio, two excellent managers, could not do what Southgate has done with much, much less. 

Heck Terry Venables had a better group of talent in 96 and could not make the final.

I'm not comparing them to those players, I am comparing them to what the competition has today, and England have the best set of players in European football right now. Even the so called golden generation had tougher opposition. Compare Italy, Spain, Germany, France, Brazil and Argentina's squad in the 2000's to that England's golden generation and you are looking at evenly matched squads. Outside of the French squad, none of these squads in Europe is anywhere near as good as England's yet it's England that continuously struggle to play any football that doesn't make you want to claw your eyes out.

England has the easiest route they could have possibly hoped for and they are barely scrapping through.

9 minutes ago, just said:

Engerland v The Oranjes Val. Who do you want to win? 

Is the right answer the team with the most conservative haircuts?

1 minute ago, Valerie said:

Is the right answer the team with the most conservative haircuts?

Conservative haircuts and sensible socks. England it is then Val. 

28 minutes ago, just said:

Congratulations ax on Canadad beating Venezuela on penalties to make the semis of the Copa America. Every chance to go on and win the trophy now. 

Ah come on Just you are better than that, no need for the disrespect in mis-spelling Canada, this is a really nice country.

 

Far as the Copa goes The team have done really well. First ever Copa America and they are doing themselves and the nation proud.

Argentina next. Holders and favorites. Made Paez look ordinary putting him, Moises and Ecuador out. Will be a tough ask, they topped Canada's group and beat them in the group stage, but hey, upsets happen.

33 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

I'm not comparing them to those players, I am comparing them to what the competition has today, and England have the best set of players in European football right now. Even the so called golden generation had tougher opposition. Compare Italy, Spain, Germany, France, Brazil and Argentina's squad in the 2000's to that England's golden generation and you are looking at evenly matched squads. Outside of the French squad, none of these squads in Europe is anywhere near as good as England's yet it's England that continuously struggle to play any football that doesn't make you want to claw your eyes out.

England has the easiest route they could have possibly hoped for and they are barely scrapping through.

I think Spain has a better squad in addition to France. 

England just beat the team that put out the holders, Italy are no mugs. 

Yes cause the Swiss beat them it looks easier, but had it been Italy, now Holland and then either Spain or France, you are talking the best footballing nations of Europe. Only Germany is missing off that list.

Edited July 6, 20242 yr by axman2526

25 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

I think Spain has a better squad in addition to France. 

England just beat the team that put out the holders, Italy are no mugs. 

Yes cause the Swiss beat them it looks easier, but had it been Italy, now Holland and then either Spain or France, you are talking the best footballing nations of Europe. Only Germany is missing off that list.

England's entire attack has better players than Spain's. I would argue that even the players on the bench like Palmer is better than every single one of their attacking players. Rodri, Laporte and Raya are the only ones I would pick ahead of England's starting 11 players.

France are similar but I would argue are much closer in matching England's squad than Spain's. Saliba, Hernandez, Kante, and one of Tchouameni or Camavinga, and Mbappe would got into England's starting 11, but again, I think England's squad depth is stronger. 

As for Italy, I wouldn't call them mugs, but they're not what they once were. This is the worst Italian generation of footballers I have seen in my lifetime. They have failed to qualify for the last two world cups back to back. They won the previous Euro's through effort more than anything and beat an England team that they should have lost comfortably against if it wasn't for Southgate's negative tactics that allowed Italy to get back into the game.

England haven't performed well in a single game so far. They are getting by on individualism alone and nothing more. It's been a struggle against the likes of Serbia, Denmark, Slovakia, Slovenia and Switzerland, the best team of these teams being Switzerland that England couldn't beat in normal time.

I honestly don't know how anybody who has watched football can confidently say Southgate is the reason why England have made it so far in this competition. His tactics have only made things much harder than it should be and every player playing for England looks worse in an England shirt compared to how they look for their club.

Edited July 6, 20242 yr by Scott Harris

25 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

England's entire attack has better players than Spain's. I would argue that even the players on the bench like Palmer is better than every single one of their attacking players. Rodri, Laporte and Raya are the only ones I would pick ahead of England's starting 11 players.

France are similar but I would argue are much closer in matching England's squad than Spain's. Saliba, Hernandez, Kante, and one of Tchouameni or Camavinga, and Mbappe would got into England's starting 11, but again, I think England's squad depth is stronger. 

As for Italy, I wouldn't call them mugs, but they're not what they once were. This is the worst Italian generation of footballers I have seen in my lifetime. They have failed to qualify for the last two world cups back to back. They won the previous Euro's through effort more than anything and beat an England team that they should have lost comfortably against if it wasn't for Southgate's negative tactics that allowed Italy to get back into the game.

England haven't performed well in a single game so far. They are getting by on individualism alone and nothing more. It's been a struggle against the likes of Serbia, Denmark, Slovakia, Slovenia and Switzerland, the best team of these teams being Switzerland that England couldn't beat in normal time.

I honestly don't know how anybody who has watched football can confidently say Southgate is the reason why England have made it so far in this competition. His tactics have only made things much harder than it should be and every player playing for England looks worse in an England shirt compared to how they look for their club.

To be fair Serbia, Denmark and Swiss have good teams as well. 

You don't rate Southgate, I get that and respect that, he has a good record in tournaments for England and has been a part of thar success, imo.

22 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

To be fair Serbia, Denmark and Swiss have good teams as well. 

You don't rate Southgate, I get that and respect that, he has a good record in tournaments for England and has been a part of thar success, imo.

They're good teams, but you would expect England to at least dispatch the majority of them reasonably comfortably. I can accept England needing to grind out the odd game here and there, but not every single one of them.

I agree with @Scott Harris 100% but I do think England needed Southgate in the beginning. They needed the unity they have now compared to before when they couldnt stand each other. I honestly think we needed that but i also think it went too far.

We needed a proper tactical coach with gareth joining the FA as some type of "player health and management director" to keep the unity going (really good man manager, the players will run through walls for). But more importantly, once his job was done, we needed a modern tactical coach of the likes of Pep, klopp, tuchel, etc...someone that can lay down the tactical work for the actual games.

 

Another way of looking at it...The players won those games. Southgate only coached the "mental" side of things. Which is still a big part of being the coach but not the rest of it.

Edited July 6, 20242 yr by Simplymo

1 hour ago, Scott Harris said:

They're good teams, but you would expect England to at least dispatch the majority of them reasonably comfortably. I can accept England needing to grind out the odd game here and there, but not every single one of them.

Don't you think that is maybe the fault of our mindsets though, how we were brought up to view the national side?

I mean when I was a lad then going on teenager the expectation was England should beat anybody, and we should do it while playing with Brazilian dominance. 

 

That was the attitude from those i went to schools, college and university with. We made this sport, we own it, we are the best, we have the best league and everyone should be made to tremble before us.