Views on the squad (merged)

[Chippy]

I've been thinking about our expectations and wondering why we still have such high hopes considering the players we have and the difference between them in their prime to now and the difference between replacements over the last couple or three seasons to what we could choose from before.

giving them like a match rating but with what I;d expect out of them now to what I'd have expected at their peeks I came up with this.

Cech.............Great keeper still and after his injuries he has done well but I'd rate him 7 and feel he was 9

Turnbull...5.

Bosingwa..........not good enough now 4 and at his best for us in a settled system 5.5

Luiz,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,future great but accident prone 5

Cahill ...not yet settled.....................5

Ivan .......good in two positions..........6.5 been steady and I don't feel he has lost or gained anything.

Terry..good but not as good............7 Injuries and off field shananigans have taken a toll but we still miss him badly was 9

Cole...decent but not so good....6 I don't know if its his dodgy ankle or his missus but he was 9

Mikel.....never reached potential..5 may have been a six at one stage 6

Romeu......future prospect.....5

Lampard 6 not liking admitting it but he was a 9

Essien 6 injuries have really robbed us was 9

Ramires..looks promising 7.5

Meireles....makeweight at this level....5

Kalou....never reached potential...5

Malouda...gone down hill...5 doesn't look interested enough or take players on, was 7

Sturridge...is he good enough to lead the line...6

Drogba..not the player he was ...6 great at his best and still scares defences, not as clinical and rarely the one man wrecking team he was, was 9.5

Torres...not the player he was....4..

Mata ...great addition....8..

Bertrand...future prospect...6

Ferreira ...5 still solid enough and a great servant but at his best was 7

We just let Anelka still a 6.5 go and Alex again 6.5 and Yossi could have been handy around the 6 mark but if you were to take into account the players from our best times I think the bottom mark would be a 6 with most when you remember players like Makalele 9 and Robben 8 Duff 7.5, Gallas 8 its easy to see why we don't dominate like we did.

I realise this is a strange way of rating and there's likely an easier less confusing way but I'm bored and thought I'd do something different.

When you try to pick a team out of the players available although my ratings will be different to yours, it doesn't look any better than a top four team and could certainly (imo) do with some fresh faces.

I know match ratings are one game but these are what I expect from what we have consistently so if you're bored enough, have a go at your own ratings and see if you can make a team that would be ahead of many of the lower teams if you compared them in the ratings.

Edited February 22, 2012 by Chippy

[MKBlue]

I've been thinking about our expectations and wondering why we still have such high hopes considering the players we have and the difference between them in their prime to now and the difference between replacements over the last couple or three seasons to what we could choose from before.

giving them like a match rating but with what I;d expect out of them now to what I'd have expected at their peeks I came up with this.

Cech.............Great keeper still and after his injuries he has done well but I'd rate him 7 and feel he was 9

Turnbull...5.

Bosingwa..........not good enough now 4 and at his best for us in a settled system 5.5

Luiz,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,future great but accident prone 5

Cahill ...not yet settled.....................5

Ivan .......good in two positions..........6.5 been steady and I don't feel he has lost or gained anything.

Terry..good but not as good............7 Injuries and off field shananigans have taken a toll but we still miss him badly was 9

Cole...decent but not so good....6 I don't know if its his dodgy ankle or his missus but he was 9

Mikel.....never reached potential..5 may have been a six at one stage 6

Romeu......future prospect.....5

Meireles....makeweight at this level....5

Kalou....never reached potential...5

Malouda...gone down hill...5 doesn't look interested enough or take players on, was 7

Sturridge...is he good enough to lead the line...6

Drogba..not the player he was ...6 great at his best and still scares defences, not as clinical and rarely the one man wrecking team he was, was 9.5

Torres...not the player he was....4..

Mata ...great addition....8..

Bertrand...future prospect...6

Ferreira ...5 still solid enough and a great servant but at his best was 7

We just let Anelka still a 6.5 go and Alex again 6.5 and Yossi could have been handy around the 6 mark but if you were to take into account the players from our best times I think the bottom mark would be a 6 with most when you remember players like Makalele 9 and Robben 8 Duff 7.5, Gallas 8 its easy to see why we don't dominate like we did.

I realise this is a strange way of rating and there's likely an easier less confusing way but I'm bored and thought I'd do something different.

When you try to pick a team out of the players available although my ratings will be different to yours, it doesn't look any better than a top four team and could certainly (imo) do with some fresh faces.

I know match ratings are one game but these are what I expect from what we have consistently so if you're bored enough, have a go at your own ratings and see if you can make a team that would be ahead of many of the lower teams if you compared them in the ratings.

Meireles, can I have a negative score? If so - 1, if I were Frank Lampard and had to see this waste of a shirt picked in front of me I'd be looking for another club, same goes for Essien, McEachran, Romeu and even Mikel.

Mata, 9, only ray of light in a miserable season.

The rest, very average to just not good enough.

[PloKoon13]

You make a very good point Chippy - our current squad just simply isn't on the same level as back in the day and it's showing.

Is it possible that in our search for 'good football' we have opted for universalism over the particularism and individual expertise that made us such a force?

Mourinho's team was a collection of world-class specialists carefully fitted into a functioning collective unit with a distinct gameplan; now it seems to me that with the exception of five (maybe) players we have a bunch of plodders who aren't particularly good or bad at anything but who have a respectable all-round game. I acknowledge that a universalist philosophy is far harder to coach, in fact there are some great footballing minds who believe it to be an absolute good (Cruyff and Michels for one... there's an excellent quote somewhere but I can't find it), but a search for all-round quality has actually led us to compromise on our overall aggregate quality, with everybody capable of performing a few roles adequately, but very few able to perform one specific role with any amount of surpassing ability.

Out of our entire squad only Luiz and Mata are really of the holistic quality to play football at the very highest of levels, and I believe our slow and uninspired drive towards something resembling Total Football has robbed us our greatest (phenomenal) strengths and hasn't really replaced them with much at all.

For example, it was very easy to identify Essien's strengths and specialities when he was at his pomp; you could write down three or four things that he could do bette rthan anyone else on the pitch. Can anyone tell me Raul Meireles' strengths? Or where an ageing and discouraged Florent Malouda surpasses everybody?

[Nibs]

Good post Chippy.

I started a similar thread back in November comparing our current squad to that of Mourinho's back in 2004.

http://www.theshedend.com/topic/19199-2004-2011-a-comparison/page__hl__comparison__fromsearch__1

It just shows what a huge job AVB has on his young, inexperienced hands. It's no wonder we are struggling. I was listening to TalkSport on the way home tonight and Darren Gough actually made a good point. Many were up in arms about the midfield selection last night and how could AVB leave out Essien and Lampard. Gough reminded us that Essien and Lampard played in the recent Everton game, a performance that was probably our worst to date this season and both were v poor.

It just doesn't matter what side we put out right now - we are seriously lacking options.

[Chippy]

Good post Chippy.

I started a similar thread back in November comparing our current squad to that of Mourinho's back in 2004.

http://www.thesheden...__fromsearch__1

It just shows what a huge job AVB has on his young, inexperienced hands. It's no wonder we are struggling. I was listening to TalkSport on the way home tonight and Darren Gough actually made a good point. Many were up in arms about the midfield selection last night and how could AVB leave out Essien and Lampard. Gough reminded us that Essien and Lampard played in the recent Everton game, a performance that was probably our worst to date this season and both were v poor.

It just doesn't matter what side we put out right now - we are seriously lacking options.

I didn't see that Nibs,

sorry mate I almost nicked your idea, surprisingly similar sort of thing, I don't think its hard to see why we're not the force we were in either comparison.

I think we can safely say there's a lot to do to get the squad up to those levels again.

[Zola]

Good post Chippy

[Castiel]

You make a very good point Chippy - our current squad just simply isn't on the same level as back in the day and it's showing.

Is it possible that in our search for 'good football' we have opted for universalism over the particularism and individual expertise that made us such a force?

Mourinho's team was a collection of world-class specialists carefully fitted into a functioning collective unit with a distinct gameplan; now it seems to me that with the exception of five (maybe) players we have a bunch of plodders who aren't particularly good or bad at anything but who have a respectable all-round game. I acknowledge that a universalist philosophy is far harder to coach, in fact there are some great footballing minds who believe it to be an absolute good (Cruyff and Michels for one... there's an excellent quote somewhere but I can't find it), but a search for all-round quality has actually led us to compromise on our overall aggregate quality, with everybody capable of performing a few roles adequately, but very few able to perform one specific role with any amount of surpassing ability.

Out of our entire squad only Luiz and Mata are really of the holistic quality to play football at the very highest of levels, and I believe our slow and uninspired drive towards something resembling Total Football has robbed us our greatest (phenomenal) strengths and hasn't really replaced them with much at all.

For example, it was very easy to identify Essien's strengths and specialities when he was at his pomp; you could write down three or four things that he could do bette rthan anyone else on the pitch. Can anyone tell me Raul Meireles' strengths? Or where an ageing and discouraged Florent Malouda surpasses everybody?

Excellent point. I'll take the well oiled machine back any day. The thing about how Mourinho had us working was that we could do it even without our best players. Remember his last full season? We had Essien and Paulo at CB a lot of the time and we still won a cup double pushing a resurgent United all the way to the end in the league. The possession pass and move football everyone is obsessed with these days isn't the only way to success. Look at Spurs, people say they play attractive football and their entire game plan is knock it long to Adebayor so he can open space for their fast wings.

[romansoldier1981]

Interesting post, we definitely miss players like Makelele, Robben, Duff, J Cole(at his best) even players like Gudjhonsen, but in our youth team we have very promising players like Chalobah, Piazon and Farouz so we just have to give the boys a chance and see what happens

[Adamrb]

So, there's a lot of talk on here regarding 'deadwood' players and players not supporting avb. Assuming we keep avb (big assumption I know) and are to get rid of this group in the summer, just wondering which players people think need to go?

If it was down to me, possibilities would be..

Hilario

Bossy

Paulo

Cole (possibly)?

Mikel

Lamps (if he won't accept being a squad player)

Raul m

Malouda

Kalou

Drogba

Torres (if we find any takers)

Really highlights the size of the managers job doesn't it!

[linesy91]

I think you have covered everyone there, I really want to keep Torres and Lampard if im honest though.

[Zeta]

For me, the following players must go:

Bosingwa

Malouda

Kalou

Drogba

The following should probably go:

Hilario

Ferreria

Torres

Merieles

I still feel Cole and Lampard have roles to play, but they must accept that they are getting on now in football terms and their roles will be reduced to perhaps 1 start in 2. Lampard still has a good range of passing and I can see him developing a more defensive game as he ages, as he doesn't have the pace to be box to box anymore. A midfield rotating through Romeu, McEachran, Ramires, Essien and Lampard would be good enough I think.

Possible people to come in as replacements:

De Bruyne (Why loan him again...?)

Piazon

Feurez

Hazard?

[striker]?

[Spiller86]

It's a sad day for the club when the top scorer is included on the list of deadwood.

Shows you just how much we're being dominated by this seed that Ferguson sowed in everyone's minds that we are too old.

[Adamrb]

It's a sad day for the club when the top scorer is included on the list of deadwood.

Shows you just how much we're being dominated by this seed that Ferguson sowed in everyone's minds that we are too old.

Fair point. I did say only if he can't accept his position within the squad though.

I would love for him to be our giggs (help players like josh etc.), but he has to accept rotation quietly and professionally.

[romansoldier1981]

I wouldnt necessarily sell Torres, Lampard, Meireles, they are still decent players, I have no doubt that Torres will find his scoring form again but the team needs to change approach to games, if he gets 1 chance every 2 games you cant expect him to score 20 goals a season, Lampard and Meireles are good squad players also

[Martin_plumb]

So, there's a lot of talk on here regarding 'deadwood' players and players not supporting avb. Assuming we keep avb (big assumption I know) and are to get rid of this group in the summer, just wondering which players people think need to go?

If it was down to me, possibilities would be..

Hilario

Bossy

Paulo

Cole (possibly)?

Mikel

Lamps (if he won't accept being a squad player)

Raul m

Malouda

Kalou

Drogba

Torres (if we find any takers)

Really highlights the size of the managers job doesn't it!

When ever someone does a list like this Hilario seems to be on it. With Courtois out on loan for the next season or two then we need 3 keepers and I think he is about as good as you get considering he never moans about never playing

As for the rest you mentioned I mostly agree.

I'd also like to keep cole and lamps, admittedly mainly for nostalgic reasons but as you mentioned if they can accept their new roles they can still be an asset to the team.

I doubt we will chop Torres, because as hopeless as I might sound with this, he plays better with the style of football that I tthink AVB is trying to get us to (i.e quick passing, creative, through balls, running the channels) but I think he might let Drogba vacate the building as we have an obvious reluctence for this 2 year deal

[Spiller86]

I think Torres is a bad fit here, he is a good player but much like Forlan at United he just never took off.

Lampard for me is told (preferably by someone he respects, not AVB) at the beginning of next season that he will split his time on the pitch with McEachran say 3 to 1 or 2 to 2, where he is saved for the big matches and some of the less important ones are given to Josh. Given he'll probably not be worried about international football after Euro2012, I think that would be palatable

[wxwax]

I think everyone appreciates that Lamps has been a top scorer for the club.

The problem is, the club isn't scoring much. Fewer goals in the Prem than any club that's above Chelsea. So Frank's contribution is a bit like being a one-eyed man in the kingdom of the blind. (That sounds harsh, I'm just not very good at similes!)

Most people can see the problem is two-fold: nothing from the center-forward, and a lack of service and creativity from the midfield. The latter is where Frank's recent deficiences come into play.

[wxwax]

Lampard for me is told (preferably by someone he respects, not AVB) at the beginning of next season that he will split his time on the pitch with McEachran say 3 to 1 or 2 to 2, where he is saved for the big matches and some of the less important ones are given to Josh. Given he'll probably not be worried about international football after Euro2012, I think that would be palatable

That, right there, encapsulates the problem.

Edited February 22, 2012 by wxwax

[PloKoon13]

Frank has 9 goals from 18 starts this season - 1 in 2 is pretty impressive considering. That's the same as Sturridge (except Lamps also has 4 assists) and he has been involved in the same number of goals as Mata.

[TheWestwayWonder]

Does anyone have an accurate link for our salaries? All I get when I search for Chelsea salaries are three year old links talking about how we had a wage bill of 172 million.

Clearing out the deadwood, whatever people's definition of that is, as well as the old war horses like DD, Frank, and/or Ashely Cole, we are going to save alot of money. It would be interesting to see just how low the bill will get when we remove almost everyone from the pre-FFP, pre-Carlo era.

[Spiller86]

That, right there, encapsulates the problem.

Encapsulates the problem that AVB wasn't up to managing a squad of the calibre of ours?

If people are honestly willing to see greats of this club like Frank, Ash and Essien depart this club in acrimonious circumstances in order to prolong the time of Villas Boas, who has been amounted to little more than a failure, and promises little more than that going forward, then I am dumbstruck.

Now I wasn't around when Sexton shafted Osgood and Hudson, or when Docherty moved on Venables, but that for me would be in a similar category.

Edited February 23, 2012 by Spiller86

[DoubleHelix74]

Frank has 9 goals from 18 starts this season - 1 in 2 is pretty impressive considering. That's the same as Sturridge (except Lamps also has 4 assists) and he has been involved in the same number of goals as Mata.

Not to split hairs here because I cherish Lampard and for everything he has done for the club but isn't 4 of his 9 goals penalties? Still, he needs to get around this lack of respect for AVB because we need him for the next few years!

[Spiller86]

And the rest were tapins right? Penalties and tapins. That's why Gerrard is better. When you start making the same arguments as Liverpool supporters, you know you've lost your way.

[alan'82]

It's just my opinion, (so it's fine if you disagree,no worries) but anyone who's followed CFC for the last 8 years or so & calls Frank Lampard 'deadwood' is a ungratefull

w*nker of the first degree.

[wxwax]

Encapsulates the problem that AVB wasn't up to managing a squad of the calibre of ours?

When your club's future is held hostage by whether or not a player finds his manager's decision "palatable", the tail is wagging the dog and nothing good can come from it.

This is so self-evident it should scarcely need saying.

Edited February 23, 2012 by wxwax