I'm sorry but this is absolute rubbish, and not even what people were talking about.

And everyone opposed's position was basically more eloquently put by blue dave.

I sincerely believe what I said. I know some Europeans (whites) who agree and some who don't. It is just another point of view.

This argument is completely flawed, the number of black coaches & managers is proportionate to the numbers that were playing 20/30 years ago, would the better route not be to let the numbers rise organically? Rather than force the issue!

80 percent of successful rappers are of an ethnic minority, that's totally unrepresentative of the music buying population, we should force everyone that buys a rap song to buy an eminent single.

I know.......

If there is institutional racism in football that iss stopping black manager's being hired, why would forcing them to be interviewed make a difference? They still wouldn't get the job. I don't see how it really helps.

Why is everything always made out to be a racial issue, so sick of this bull sh*t. 

No, but when 30% of players are non-white and only 3% of coaches are, maybe there's an issue there we need to address. 

 

So you really believe racism plays a factor in this? 

 

And here I thought you didn't buy into all that conspiracy theory crap. 

It's not a conspiracy theory that racism exists...

It's not a conspiracy theory that racism exists...

 

That's not what I said. 

 

How is it that racism plays a factor in black managers not getting a job? Why instantly assume racism? Because of idiots like Sol Campbell who have made wild accusations on no grounds? I have never seen any evidence of this, besides Wigan owner with controversial comments and Cardiff Chairman on asians. I haven't seen anything that shows discrimination against black people when it comes to managerial roles. 

Edited June 6, 201511 yr by Sloth

That's not what I said. 

 

How is it that racism plays a factor in black managers not getting a job? Why instantly assume racism? Because of idiots like Sol Campbell who have made wild accusations on no grounds? I have never seen any evidence of this, besides Wigan owner with controversial comments and Cardiff Chairman on asians. I haven't seen anything that shows discrimination against black people when it comes to managerial roles. 

 

Other than the hard statistics? If it is racism, it's not as overt as "I'm not going to hire X manager because he's black". It's as Blue Daze says, it's a proven fact that employers hire people similar to themselves and their image of success.

The proportion of black managers in the game is similar to the black representation in society,3%. A bigger issue is why despite a demograph of 6.5% is the Asian population nearly totally omitted from the game.

Other than the hard statistics? If it is racism, it's not as overt as "I'm not going to hire X manager because he's black". It's as Blue Daze says, it's a proven fact that employers hire people similar to themselves and their image of success.

 

So we instantly assume racism? 

 

I don't believe that either, clubs in England don't just sign white football players, it's the same as managers, if a manager is good enough they'll hire him.

 

How many black managers have expected Premier League jobs with no experience? Quite a few, and it's always the same story, racism. It's easy to scream racism. Jimmy Floyd right now has started at league 2 club, they are already in league 1, just like any other manager, white or hispanic, they have to prove themselves first. 

 

Jimmy will most likely land a Premier League job at this rate, but until then he still has to prove himself more. I don't see why this has to be made into a racial issue like it has done, it really isn't a case of PL clubs only hiring white managers. 

Edited June 6, 201511 yr by Sloth

Who are the quite a few who have expected Prem jobs? Genuinely just asking.

Ask ForeverCarfree can't remember the names besides Les Ferdinand, but he made a discussion about in it nearest and dearest rivals about black players expecting Championship and PL jobs with no experience and refuse to join league 1 and league 2 clubs. 

 

It was a very good discussion at the time, to me it seemed more arrogance than actual racism. 

I've had a look and can't find any quotes about Ferdinand saying he deserves a Premier League job. He's said that the Rooney Rule would be a good idea but I can't find him saying that he has expected a Prem job but hasn't got it due to racism.

Ask ForeverCarfree can't remember the names besides Les Ferdinand, but he made a discussion about in it nearest and dearest rivals about black players expecting Championship and PL jobs with no experience and refuse to join league 1 and league 2 clubs.

It was a very good discussion at the time, to me it seemed more arrogance than actual racism.

I think the discussion you are referring to was when John Barnes said unlike white managers black coaches don't get 2nd chances in football management and I listed several black managers, Barnes included who have had two or more jobs in British football.

It was a baseless statement on his part.

Racism is always going to be a factor in this day and age in white dominant countries that's obvious. But is it really a big enough factor to step in and wonder why there aren't a great deal of black managers in the English leagues? The thread itself isn't concerning me that much it's the heated discussion in the later pages which is suggesting the oppression has something to do with black managers not being hired. I think that's a load of nonsense, if you're good enough you get hired, it's nothing to do with being white or should I say not being black. 

 

Also Richard, Les Ferdinand did hit out at the F.A. for lack of black coaches. 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/11224619/Les-Ferdinand-hits-out-at-FAs-covert-racism-following-report-into-black-and-ethnic-minority-coaches.html

 

Apparently it was covert racism, claiming these football clubs are being racist without knowing it. In other words we've got absolutely 0 evidence of racism happening but because there are not enough black managers lets say that. Also I don't mean to come across as anti black or pro white here, these situations are always touchy, I can vouch that I'm a firm believer in equality and often debate on the subjects of police brutality in America involving the BlackLivesMatter movement which I can say I genuinely support. 

 

As for this I think it's a load of nonsense personally, like someone said last page why don't we go investigate why there aren't enough successful white rappers. It's just stupid quite frankly. 

Edited June 7, 201511 yr by Sloth

Fair points Sloth. FWIW, I didn't say Les Ferdinand didn't blame racism for the lack of black managers, I just said I couldn't find anywhere where he said he expected a Premier League job.

That's fair enough, it must have been John Barnes who refused to join a league one side because of his reputation. But because he wasn't offered a PL job he instantly blamed it on racism, lets not forget he had no experience at all. 

 

Fair enough managers have landed jobs with no experience such as Gary Monk, but he got the job for being caretaker and got kept on due to doing a very good job. He's also a Swansea legend. 

 

But in the discussion we had before ForeverCarefree brought up some excellent points involving Jimmy Floyd who joined a League 2 side, didn't bitch about it claiming his reputation was good enough to land him a Premier League job, got on with it and is proven himself right now to be a good manager. I just don't see how it's a good enough case to be a racist issue, that's my main point. Every manager, white, black, hispanic, asian, have to prove themselves before they can land the best jobs. 

Sloth, I think you will find Droogba's post particularly useful. Give it a read and what Blue Daze said. Owners hire people in their image of who might succeed like Blue Daze said. Open deliberate racism is probably quite rare, but discrimination still undoubtedly exists. To simplify the issue as you have and discard it without further thought is quite unfair I feel...

Edited June 7, 201511 yr by ashwin

Sloth, I think you will find Droogba's post particularly useful. Give it a read and what Blue Daze said. Owners hire people in their image of who might succeed like Blue Daze said. Open deliberate racism is probably quite rare, but discrimination still undoubtedly exists. To simplify the issue as you have and discard it without further thought is quite unfair I feel...

 

So from this alone we can tell it's racism? Personally I think it goes both ways, the ones that feel this is covert racism are not giving it enough thought either. We can't just imply something is racist on little grounds, I think that's unfair. 

 

I think the issue is rather simple, club owners especially lower leagues prefer domestic managers, nothing wrong with that. I also don't think a football club sees a British citizen with Nigerian heritage for example as not British. This really isn't a terrible issue, besides foreign managers not being offered the job in lower leagues that's about it. 

 

I hate the idea how people see a statistic like that and instantly think it's a race issue, obviously it'll be a factor but a slight one at that. Everyone just about gets a chance. What black coaches aren't getting a chance right now? Some don't want to manage in the lower leagues without experience, but that's something you have to do. Not denying racism is playing its part because it is but I don't think it's a big enough factor and I don't believe it's the reason for the stat. But lets ignore the population difference of white and black shall we. 

Edited June 7, 201511 yr by Sloth

In a league where already the most stressful job to have is to be a manager, and where about a half of them survive the whole season without losing their job or going to a different club, all this sounds like a brilliant idea to be forced on the clubs. 

Blue Daze, on 05 Jun 2015 - 10:07 PM, said:

No, but when 30% of players are non-white and only 3% of coaches are, maybe there's an issue there we need to address.

You don't half come out with some sh*t!

Can you explain why you think that is sh*t

Blue Daze, on 05 Jun 2015 - 10:07 PM, said:

Can you explain why you think that is sh*t

Moved on from it sorry not getting into it again

Your right bobby.

Edited June 7, 201511 yr by dkw

 

Can you explain why you think that is sh*t

 

 

No he can't.

 

 

 

I hate the idea how people see a statistic like that and instantly think it's a race issue, obviously it'll be a factor but a slight one at that. Everyone just about gets a chance. What black coaches aren't getting a chance right now? Some don't want to manage in the lower leagues without experience, but that's something you have to do. Not denying racism is playing its part because it is but I don't think it's a big enough factor and I don't believe it's the reason for the stat. But lets ignore the population difference of white and black shall we. 

 

Who has said they aren't prepared to work in the lower levels without experience?

 

It's not really about the population differences, but look at the massive contributions non-whites have made on the pitch yet that doesn't seem to have carried over into coaching side and certainly isn't in the boardrooms (but that's a larger societal issue that is also being addressed....hopefully).

 

The bottom line is that if you think there is an issue, and most here seem to agree there is, then how do you go about addressing it in a meaningful way? These measures might actually do that and some have seen success in other countries so I really don't understand the objections to them.