At fault (lost his man each time) for both the goals, so can't agree with you there

I can sympathise with him on the first goal but that second goal was just terrible defending, he was just ball watching.

I'll say it again...we dodged an expensive bullet.

I'll say it again...we dodged an expensive bullet.

Well it's likely that we'll be back in for him the Summer.

Personally I think people need to remember he's young for one and that players make mistakes, it's sometimes the only way to learn.

Well it's likely that we'll be back in for him the Summer.

Personally I think people need to remember he's young for one and that players make mistakes, it's sometimes the only way to learn.

And thats all well and good. He is talented for sure, but the 50 million something offer we had in would have been a disaster ig it went through. He still could go either way, would t be surprised if he ends up ala Phil Jones and paying that much for him would be a massive gamble. Especially when we have Christensen already on the books

I see those 3 as players with potential who needs a leader, experienced defender alongside them to flourish.. With both JT & Ivanovic on their way to retirement, the priority should be like-for-like replacement.. blowing another 50mils on someone who is not better than zouma is a bit luxury..

Sure, i don't rate stone as much as you do but when there is hype about english player, it is usually just hype and I have yet to see it's gonna be anything different in stones case.. I don't necesarily disaprove of this potential signing but I don't think it's worth the risk to find out if his price is above 40mils..

Those 3 may need a leader next to them next season but Ive got a hunch Zouma is going to be one for a long time. Stones seems more like a second fiddle than someone who would be captain. More Lampard than Terry

Well it's likely that we'll be back in for him the Summer.

Personally I think people need to remember he's young for one and that players make mistakes, it's sometimes the only way to learn.

He's not worth 50m not even close.

He's not worth 50m not even close.

Where did I say he was?

Where did I say he was?

You didn't, I did, which is why I used 'expensive' in my post.

My point was we dodged a bullet because of his price tag, not his ability per se.

And thats all well and good. He is talented for sure, but the 50 million something offer we had in would have been a disaster ig it went through. He still could go either way, would t be surprised if he ends up ala Phil Jones and paying that much for him would be a massive gamble. Especially when we have Christensen already on the books

 

£50 million was never on the table. The highest was £36 million with a considerable bonus structure built-in.

 

That's less than Ferdinand cost United and not much more than Shaw cost them. Every youth player is a gamble, including Christensen.

 

He's not worth 50m not even close.

 

Everyone in the world agrees with that. 

£50 million was never on the table. The highest was £36 million with a considerable bonus structure built-in.

 

That's less than Ferdinand cost United and not much more than Shaw cost them. Every youth player is a gamble, including Christensen.

 

 

Everyone in the world agrees with that. 

 

Christensen wont be a much of a gamble when he comes back in 2017. That apart, at this moment we should be going for atleast one ready made CB to shore up the defense.

Christensen wont be a much of a gamble when he comes back in 2017. That apart, at this moment we should be going for atleast one ready made CB to shore up the defense.

 

Who would this ready-made CB be though? I keep hearing people say this but examples are lighter on the ground.

Who would this ready-made CB be though? I keep hearing people say this but examples are lighter on the ground.

 

Manolas, Bonucci, Rudiger, Garay, Subotic, Sokratis or even Marquinos (maybe in exch for hazard).

 

We should also go for Laporte, though he might reject us since city also want him.

Manolas, Bonucci, Rudiger, Garay, Subotic, Sokratis or even Marquinos (maybe in exch for hazard).

 

We should also go for Laporte, though he might reject us since city also want him.

 

Bonucci is the only one out of that lot I'd call 'ready-made'. Manolas, Rudiger, Marquinhos and Laporte (out until August at least too) are all guys who need developing still and three of them would probably cost more than Stones.

 

Sokratis, Subotic, Garay....I'm not convinced of. Good players but for the amount of money you'd be paying I think you need more.

 

It's why the Stones deal isn't that awful to me as it is to others. He's got potential, he's shown the ability to play at a very good level in this league but he's in a poor run of form in an awful team. 

Bonucci is the only one out of that lot I'd call 'ready-made'. Manolas, Rudiger, Marquinhos and Laporte (out until August at least too) are all guys who need developing still and three of them would probably cost more than Stones.

 

Sokratis, Subotic, Garay....I'm not convinced of. Good players but for the amount of money you'd be paying I think you need more.

 

It's why the Stones deal isn't that awful to me as it is to others. He's got potential, he's shown the ability to play at a very good level in this league but he's in a poor run of form in an awful team. 

 

Manolas is playing pretty much at his peak right now.

 

Also, just because Marquinos or Laporte will improve further does not mean that they are already not far far better than Stones.

 

For example if we got Laporte, he will automatically be our best defender ahead of Zouma, Cahill, Terry, Ivanovic. Stones is currently worse than all 4 of them. Same goes for Rudiger and Marquinos too.

 

Laporte has 150+ top level appearances including european experience. Stones does not have half of that and that to at a poorer level.

Edited April 24, 201610 yr by Orpington_Blue

Manolas is playing pretty much at his peak right now.

 

Also, just because Marquinos or Laporte will improve further does not mean that they are already not far far better than Stones.

 

For example if we got Laporte, he will automatically be our best defender ahead of Zouma, Cahill, Terry, Ivanovic. Stones is currently worse than all 4 of them. Same goes for Rudiger and Marquinos too.

 

I agree. Manolas is playing very well, but I wouldn't call him world class just yet. I know a few Roma fans who think he's good but not as polished as some of the former defenders they've had there in recent years.

 

I agree that Laporte and Marquinhos are at a similar or better level in their respective leagues right now too, but they'd both be more expensive and are both gambles like Stones.

 

If you're looking at current form only then Stones would probably be better than Ivanovic (which is saying something) and level with Cahill. Zouma and JT have no recent form but Stones is different from Zouma.

 

Again, Stones is a project. He's not the finished article and his form has been poor but I put a lot of that on Martinez. In the right situation I think he can be as good as any young defender in Europe with the exception of Varane, but who knows?

I agree. Manolas is playing very well, but I wouldn't call him world class just yet. 

 

Where did I say he is world class. He might never be world class. But he isnt a goop like Stones is right now. If we had him he would be our best CB by far.

 

 

 

I agree that Laporte and Marquinhos are at a similar or better level in their respective leagues right now too, but they'd both be more expensive and are both gambles like Stones.

 

Gambles? If players who are holding first team places at european level are gambles then I dont know what isnt. They are not gambles.

 

 

Again, Stones is a project. He's not the finished article and his form has been poor but I put a lot of that on Martinez. In the right situation I think he can be as good as any young defender in Europe with the exception of Varane, but who knows?

 

 

If he is a project then we should get him for 15-20m, and even that would be premium price. 50m or even 40m is totally naff.

 

Needless to say we do not have time for projects next season. We need to decide if we become the next arsenal or keep up with guardiola's city and Mourinho's United.

Edited April 24, 201610 yr by Orpington_Blue

Where did I say he is world class. He might never be world class. But he isnt a goop like Stones is right now. If we had him he would be our best CB by far.

 

 

I think we need to be looking at players who could be world class, like a few of the guys you mentioned. Manolas is a good player but I don't see him as being 'the man' for us.

 

 

Gambles? If players who are holding first team places at european level are gambles then I dont know what isnt. They are not gambles.

 

 

Every signing is a gamble. Some bigger than others, but all gambles. No sure things in football.

 

 

If he is a project then we should get him for 15-20m, and even that would be premium price. 50m or even 40m is totally naff.

 

Needless to say we do not have time for projects next season. We need to decide if we become the next arsenal or keep up with guardiola's city and Mourinho's United.

 

I've never said I'd pay £50 million for him. I've said that bid was rubbish all along.

 

The thing is you're looking for another quick fix, just like we've always done. It might work, but I'd prefer us to build something on firm foundations.

 

Thing is Stones is likely to go to either us, Guardiola's City or Mourinho's United. 

 

Anyway, I agree with most of what you're saying I just think we see the smaller points a bit differently. No point quibbling.

You didn't, I did, which is why I used 'expensive' in my post.

My point was we dodged a bullet because of his price tag, not his ability per se.

Ah fair enough please accept my apologies.

I do agree on dodging a bullet where the price is concerned

Decent player but is he really a CB-Even in one of his better games of the season (Against United on the Weekend) he just looked so much better when he was making runs forward with the ball and creating space for the forward runners and allowing Everton to play a high line, his defending was very last ditch and it was just sheer fortune that United just scored the 2.

 

Could he play as a CB for a team challenging for the title at this stage of his career, I highly doubt it. 

Anything over £20 million for stones is robbery at this stage of his career

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Anything over £20 million for stones is robbery at this stage of his career

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

 

You're paying for potential with any young player. If he fulfils all of his potential (massive IF) then £30 million is a steal. That, for me, was the fair price all along and probably still is.

He attended city's game last night, I hope it has something to it. Personally I think there are better defenders we should take a look at.

His positioning is awful. He has a false sense of confidence when he's in possession. He genuinely believes he's the next Beckenbauer.

He's also very rash and likely to give away penalties. He's nothing more than the next Ryan Shawcross.

I was recently checking out an Everton forum and was surprised to see they thought he was a 40 million pound player. 

How happy am i that we didn't splash 50 mill for him, Everton should have cashed in no one will offer as much as we did. Also i'd rather bring back Christensen from his loan looks like a better player already.