I'd like to see us go back to trying a back 4 but sadly we've built this squad for the intention of a back 3. Alonso looked poor in a back 4 when first signed and i wouldn't trust Moses at RB. Azpi could play RB but looks much better at CB. We then would have a squad far too heavy on CB's. Unless we sign some proper full backs we can't do much more than a back 3.

39 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

I'd like to see us go back to trying a back 4 but sadly we've built this squad for the intention of a back 3. Alonso looked poor in a back 4 when first signed and i wouldn't trust Moses at RB. Azpi could play RB but looks much better at CB. We then would have a squad far too heavy on CB's. Unless we sign some proper full backs we can't do much more than a back 3.

I would like to see a back 4, I think it would suit Alonso and Dave would be good at RB. Could play 433 or 4231 and Fabregas or Barkley could be pushed further up. 

3 minutes ago, Ernie_blue said:

I would like to see a back 4, I think it would suit Alonso and Dave would be good at RB. Could play 433 or 4231 and Fabregas or Barkley could be pushed further up. 

4-3-3 would be my ideal formation. 

Tbo

Dave Andreas Rudiger (New LB)

Kante

Barkley   (B2B CM)

Will/Ped   Morata   Eden

Not sure if Cesc would work in the other CM, but the type of player Bakayoko was signed to be would be perfect. RLC possibly?

I personally don't believe the formation is an issue especially when we play 3-5-2, my opinion of the whole situation is that we have 2 players who are not well suited to the the 3-5-2 formation, 1 being Bakayoko for fairly straight forward reasons defensively he is a liability and offensively he is wasteful. We already have Fabregas in the midfield for whom defending is not his strongest point therefore having Bakayako alongside Fabregas is always going to be troublesome.

The 2nd player who I believe is not well suited to the system is Hazard, as good as the lad is I just don't see him as a 2nd striker. If we are to play 3-5-2 we need someone who is more selfish and clinical than Hazard, we could do with someone versatile like Sanchez who can not only play as a striker but could also be put on the wing. 

Lampard has left a huge gap when it comes to goals from midfield and we seriously need someone to fill that, one can hope Barkley or RLC can provide us with the goal threat we are lacking in the near future.

4 minutes ago, Imran_CFC said:

I personally don't believe the formation is an issue especially when we play 3-5-2, my opinion of the whole situation is that we have 2 players who are not well suited to the the 3-5-2 formation, 1 being Bakayoko for fairly straight forward reasons defensively he is a liability and offensively he is wasteful. We already have Fabregas in the midfield for whom defending is not his strongest point therefore having Bakayako alongside Fabregas is always going to be troublesome.

The 2nd player who I believe is not well suited to the system is Hazard, as good as the lad is I just don't see him as a 2nd striker. If we are to play 3-5-2 we need someone who is more selfish and clinical than Hazard, we could do with someone versatile like Sanchez who can not only play as a striker but could also be put on the wing. 

Lampard has left a huge gap when it comes to goals from midfield and we seriously need someone to fill that, one can hope Barkley or RLC can provide us with the goal threat we are lacking in the near future.

I agree on Hazard and thought this even before he played in a two. Superb as part of a front three yet can't really deliver in a front two.

Agree about Fab and Baka together is a waste yet also think they are both best in a midfield three (or even better midfield four), Fab with distribution and expect Baka to drive the team further down the field and chip in with the odd goal. Baka is not a true defensive MF yet does intercept passes. He defends from the front not running backwards. 

I would like to see Baka in MF of three with Kante and Drinkwater and told to carry the ball further down the field and offload to our front men. Of course if we do this in a 3-5-2 then we risk not having three attacking players.

If we reverted to a back four less of an issue.

10 minutes ago, Strider6003 said:

I agree on Hazard and thought this even before he played in a two. Superb as part of a front three yet can't really deliver in a front two.

Agree about Fab and Baka together is a waste yet also think they are both best in a midfield three (or even better midfield four), Fab with distribution and expect Baka to drive the team further down the field and chip in with the odd goal. Baka is not a true defensive MF yet does intercept passes. He defends from the front not running backwards. 

I would like to see Baka in MF of three with Kante and Drinkwater and told to carry the ball further down the field and offload to our front men. Of course if we do this in a 3-5-2 then we risk not having three attacking players.

If we reverted to a back four less of an issue.

Playing a Central 3 of Baka Kante and DW would work against some of the stronger teams such as City and Barca but I would certainly question their ability to unlock a stubborn defense, I really hope we get to see a midfield 3 of RLC Kante & Barkley next season.

46 minutes ago, Imran_CFC said:

Playing a Central 3 of Baka Kante and DW would work against some of the stronger teams such as City and Barca but I would certainly question their ability to unlock a stubborn defense, I really hope we get to see a midfield 3 of RLC Kante & Barkley next season.

That's why I think we need 4-3-3 and with the new defensive personnel (Christensen and Rudiger) it might well work. If it is not perfect and once Barkley is fit, then tweak the players. 

No matter the formation we are going to be left with dead wood and thats a big problem. And the only formation I can see us utilising Barkley would be a.         4-2-3-1

Dave,Christiansen,luiz,zappa

              Kante,cesc

   William Barkley hazard 

                  Morata 

And to do this Alonso and Moses are shoved on the driftwood pile. 

Then you have dw,baka and ampadu fighting for cescs place as kante is to good. 

The bonus on this is musonda might have a chance with Barkleys spot. 

 

Generally though there's not a lot of depth in the squad 

 

5 hours ago, Scottish_mike said:

No matter the formation we are going to be left with dead wood and thats a big problem. And the only formation I can see us utilising Barkley would be a.         4-2-3-1

Dave,Christiansen,luiz,zappa

              Kante,cesc

   William Barkley hazard 

                  Morata 

And to do this Alonso and Moses are shoved on the driftwood pile. 

Then you have dw,baka and ampadu fighting for cescs place as kante is to good. 

The bonus on this is musonda might have a chance with Barkleys spot. 

 

Generally though there's not a lot of depth in the squad 

 

 

20 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

I'd like to see us go back to trying a back 4 but sadly we've built this squad for the intention of a back 3. Alonso looked poor in a back 4 when first signed and i wouldn't trust Moses at RB. Azpi could play RB but looks much better at CB. We then would have a squad far too heavy on CB's. Unless we sign some proper full backs we can't do much more than a back 3.

Not really

CBs - GC, AC, DL, AR

RB - CA, Zappa

LB - MA, Baba/Kenedy

Its a balanced squad even for a back 4 (with the exception of a LB/LWB). 

Only point is - we are not losing games. We are not conceding goals. This is because we have a good defensive system and playing 3 mids. If we go to a 4-3-3, do you think willian/pedro's "creative" influence would negate the affect it would have on our defensive system? I dont think so. We are losing the battle in the mid. Cesc was beyond pathetic last game. Drinkwater too. Baka has barely impressed. I feel we would struggle regardless of formation because we are SO hazard dependent.

Edited January 16, 20188 yr by didierforever

7 minutes ago, didierforever said:

Not really

CBs - GC, AC, DL, AR

RB - CA, Zappa

LB - MA, Baba/Kenedy

Its a balanced squad even for a back 4 (with the exception of a LB/LWB). 

Only point is - we are not losing games. We are not conceding goals. This is because we have a good defensive system and playing 3 mids. If we go to a 4-3-3, do you think willian/pedro's "creative" influence would negate the affect it would have on our defensive system? I dont think so. We are losing the battle in the mid. Cesc was beyond pathetic last game. Drinkwater too. Baka has barely impressed. I feel we would struggle regardless of formation because we are SO hazard dependent.

Look at those full backs though, are they full backs that you'd be confident against the best in Europe?

I'd say Azpi would be kept as a CB with Moses and Zappa fighting it out for RB. Throw Ampadu in as well and that's 6 CB's for two positions. Alonso works at LWB because he has two defenders behind him should he get beaten. His pace in a back 4 for kill him. To do this we'd have to do a City and spend big on a few full backs and get rid of some of the passengers in the team.

21 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Look at those full backs though, are they full backs that you'd be confident against the best in Europe?

I'd say Azpi would be kept as a CB with Moses and Zappa fighting it out for RB. Throw Ampadu in as well and that's 6 CB's for two positions. Alonso works at LWB because he has two defenders behind him should he get beaten. His pace in a back 4 for kill him. To do this we'd have to do a City and spend big on a few full backs and get rid of some of the passengers in the team.

Fair enough on the last point. To be the best in europe we will have to spend a lot on FBs. But I would say, we need to spend a decent amount to even get the world class WBs. Alonso/Moses/Zappa are a level below the players who would be fighting for CL/dominating europe. 

One thing i disagree is about Azpi. I would play him as a RB, if we shift to a back 4. Alonso would be massacred as LB though. 

1 minute ago, didierforever said:

Fair enough on the last point. To be the best in europe we will have to spend a lot on FBs. But I would say, we need to spend a decent amount to even get the world class WBs. Alonso/Moses/Zappa are a level below the players who would be fighting for CL/dominating europe. 

One thing i disagree is about Azpi. I would play him as a RB, if we shift to a back 4. Alonso would be massacred as LB though. 

I'd be happy to see Azpi at RB tbf. Defensively he's the best in the world and if he can work on getting past his man he can put in a killer ball. 

2 hours ago, didierforever said:

Fair enough on the last point. To be the best in europe we will have to spend a lot on FBs. But I would say, we need to spend a decent amount to even get the world class WBs. Alonso/Moses/Zappa are a level below the players who would be fighting for CL/dominating europe. 

One thing i disagree is about Azpi. I would play him as a RB, if we shift to a back 4. Alonso would be massacred as LB though. 

It's not like Alonso is finding it easy at LWB right now either though.

I think Alonso has been one of our stars and you have to look elsewhere for the current failings - lack of goals. Our recent defensive record is good and Alonso has banged in more goals than many of our forward players.

22 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

It's not like Alonso is finding it easy at LWB right now either though.

This confuses me, I thought Alonso had been brilliant recently.

I reckon the occasional change would help, 3 CD against a team with only 1 striker upfront is a bit overkill, especially when we are playing without Luiz, who's comfortable in bringing the ball out and play those long through balls

1 hour ago, Kentonio said:

This confuses me, I thought Alonso had been brilliant recently.

I think he has been ok, but i think he is struggling as much as anybody to link up going forward. His goalscoring is still brilliant, but over the full 90+ mins, he is struggling to find much space to run into and it usually needs some fancy footwork to get anywhere. He shouldn't need to rely on that so often. I'm not saying it's his fault by the way, just that the formation isn't working as well as it was and that changing to a back 4 wouldn't hurt Alonso as much as people think it might.

45 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

I think he has been ok, but i think he is struggling as much as anybody to link up going forward. His goalscoring is still brilliant, but over the full 90+ mins, he is struggling to find much space to run into and it usually needs some fancy footwork to get anywhere. He shouldn't need to rely on that so often. I'm not saying it's his fault by the way, just that the formation isn't working as well as it was and that changing to a back 4 wouldn't hurt Alonso as much as people think it might.

I don't remember LBs needing incredible pace (though it helps) and he does have a good football brain.

Why in nearly every game are we trying to walk the ball into the net, we have the best header of a ball since Dixon, and should be whipping balls into the box at every opportunity, our play is soooooo slo in the attacking third!

On 17/01/2018 at 12:18, Strider6003 said:

I don't remember LBs needing incredible pace (though it helps) and he does have a good football brain.

I think in a 3-4-3 / 3-5-2 they do. Wing backs are asked to do a lot of running, they are also being asked to contribute to attack a lot too. If they can't beat their man with pace then the formation breaks down. The formation kind of depends on the wing backs really, if they can't do certain things then everything has to go through the middle (which is exactly what has been happening with us of late) and it's a lot easier to defend against. In 4-5-1 they can get away with it more because they aren't asked to do so much running and they have more midfielders around them to help out.

It's a shame Alonso isn't quicker really, if he was, he would be one of the most wanted LWB's in the game.

One thing I will give City is their passing accuracy. They must work very hard on it. We, on the other hand, are bang average. Mind you, for the first five minutes today our forwards were sublime.

I think Conte should build a team of fast skilful attacking players, like Man city, we look so much better zipping passes around, with great movement, and sublime finishing a young Aguerro type is who we should be looking for, because that is how i want to see My Chelsea play

.......................Kante.............Barkley

.........Wiiian...................................Hazard

.......................????????..........

I thought last night showed that our issues were not formation related. In the first 20 mins we were far more direct passing from back to front, bypassing midfield and relying on the close control from Hazard and Willian under pressure. Those players could then combine with Michy to try and create. This worked well and I think we were more creative than we have been in weeks. It did help that Hazard and Willian scored when recently we have been missing our half chances. We could then sit back and hit them on the counter.

More and more I also think early goals are crucial for us. We started with great intensity yesterday and then could relax more. 

26 minutes ago, Spiller86 said:

I thought last night showed that our issues were not formation related. In the first 20 mins we were far more direct passing from back to front, bypassing midfield and relying on the close control from Hazard and Willian under pressure. Those players could then combine with Michy to try and create. This worked well and I think we were more creative than we have been in weeks. It did help that Hazard and Willian scored when recently we have been missing our half chances. We could then sit back and hit them on the counter.

More and more I also think early goals are crucial for us. We started with great intensity yesterday and then could relax more. 

But we did switch formation.  2 in midfield as part of a 3-4-3 (or 5-2-3), versus the 5-3-2 that we have normally played this season.

Granted, we did stay with 3 at the back, but I would still argue that the 5-3-2 formation has been part of the problem, especially after the match today.