Seems like the better PL coaches have worked our plan A out - and are selecting when to press and when to drop deeper. Not just Spurs but if you look at other goals we have let in many are from the opposition nicking the ball in the middle third when it's too tight or we make a sloppy pass. Then break quickly and expose the centre backs as the middle 3 are all in the same area, then we get one on ones and someone out paced like Spurs 3rd goal. 

Jorginho excellent at pressing and tick tack style but actually Kante is best holding player we have so he should be in that position imv and Jorginho on the right maybe.  Also the normal 3 middle players all similar stature so no big physical presence which also affects defending corners and set pieces, again look at who was on near post for Spurs 1st goal and sarri going for zonal only marking also exposing us. 

So suggesting the system needs tweaking and straight away as Dec really busy and games we would expect to win - tbh also think maybe his 1st pick 14 need a rotation for the PL as he is set and the opposition know that - so more of Pedro and cesc and Rubén instead and maybe Moses and Hudson-ndoi.

not a plan b then but some positive tweaks to his system including rotations.

in time for City

Imho the only alternative system suited to Sarriball is the diamond (4-1-2-1-2), i.e.

                          Kepa
      Zappa - Azpi - Rudiger - Emerson
                      Jorginho
                Kante - Kovacic
                      Hazard
                Pedro - Morata

It would need the FBs to provide width which I don't think Azpi/Alonso are necessarily suited for.

Edited November 28, 20187 yr by the special one

Don't expect Sarri to change his style of play, or move Jorginho. Pep received a lot of criticism for not changing and now City could play blindfolded. Our players need to adapt to the system, and my concerns are that Sarri may not be given time, which will be very sad.

25 minutes ago, Osgood is Good said:

Don't expect Sarri to change his style of play, or move Jorginho. Pep received a lot of criticism for not changing and now City could play blindfolded. Our players need to adapt to the system, and my concerns are that Sarri may not be given time, which will be very sad.

No amount of time will change the fact that Jorginho is desperately slow and terrible at defending. He could get away with it in the much slower, far less competitive Seri  A, but not here where he faces nippy players running at him and right thru him like he wasn't there. Having such a player right in front of the back four is one huge weakness in any team! Especially a back four as slow as ours. I'll bet anything that if Sarri does not get rid of Jorginho he will end up losing his job.

Edited November 28, 20187 yr by Dixon

Sarri is going to need time and support. The difference between us and other title contenders is they have more than one goal scorer. Sarri isn't going to conjure up magic. 

17 minutes ago, Dixon said:

No amount of time will change the fact that Jorginho is desperately slow and terrible at defending. He could get away with it in the much slower, far less competitive Seri  A, but not here where he faces nippy players running at him and right thru him like he wasn't there. Having such a player right in front of the back four is one huge weakness in any team! Especially a back four as slow as ours. I'll bet anything that if Sarri does not get rid of Jorginho he will end up losing his job.

He obviously isn't going to "get rid of Jorginho".

Jorginho is essential to his system, and has been fantastic on the most part this season.

I do believe we need to show more flexibility however, and be open to switching players around depending on the opposition, and how the game is playing out.

I don't believe Kante is required in the starting 11 when we are playing a team offering little/no attacking threat. RLC or Fabregas are more likely to unlock a defence.

Equally, I don't believe Jorginho should be on his own in a holding role when we are going toe to toe with a team as attack minded as Spurs, who were getting the better of our midfield from the off.

There is a half way house in my opinion, but if you want to  "get rid" of Jorginho then you might as well "get rid" of Sarri as well, as I am certain Sarri is going to bin off his entire philosophy because of his first defeat of the season.

 

1 hour ago, Dixon said:

No amount of time will change the fact that Jorginho is desperately slow and terrible at defending. He could get away with it in the much slower, far less competitive Seri  A, but not here where he faces nippy players running at him and right thru him like he wasn't there. Having such a player right in front of the back four is one huge weakness in any team! Especially a back four as slow as ours. I'll bet anything that if Sarri does not get rid of Jorginho he will end up losing his job.

Jorginho is not a defensive midfielder, he is a deep lying ball playing midfielder. Therein lies the difference. Sarri like Pep will not abandon his style of play. It is amazing that we all want a different style of football but yet some are not willing to be patient.

I think that Kante should play deeper and that Jorginho should be the more advanced playmaker that presses opponents, that way Kante will be in a better position to win the ball again and he has enough skill to receive the ball from the centre backs.

And I don't care about the speed of Jorginho anyone can press higher up and maybe at that position he might get an assist.

So just change their positions but keep their same roles, problem solved.

46 minutes ago, Osgood is Good said:

Jorginho is not a defensive midfielder, he is a deep lying ball playing midfielder. Therein lies the difference. Sarri like Pep will not abandon his style of play. It is amazing that we all want a different style of football but yet some are not willing to be patient.

I don't care what label you put on him. He's in front of an already slow back four giving them next to no protection and then we wonder why teams can so easily get at our back four and create all kinds of problems. This defeat at Spurs was not a one off bad defensive performance. We've been getting awsy with it all season with Luiz making errors galore, weak defending from Alonso and  almost non existent protection from our hapless midfield. Relying on teams to keep missing good chances is not a tactic that will take us very far. Even a poor Southampton should have been 2 goals up before we got going.

 

Just now, Dixon said:

I don't care what label you put on him. He's in front of an already slow back four giving them next to no protection and then we wonder why teams can so easily get at our back four and create all kinds of problems. This defeat at Spurs was not a one off bad defensive performance. We've been getting awsy with it all season with Luiz making errors galore, weak defending from Alonso and  almost non existent protection from our hapless midfield. Relying on teams to keep missing good chances is not a tactic that will take us very far. Even a poor Southampton should have been 2 goals up before we got going.

 

Unfortunately, it appears that you do not understand the style of play implemented by Sarri. Watch Sarri's Napoli side and then you may understand that Jorgihno is integral. No point discussing any further.

23 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

I think that Kante should play deeper and that Jorginho should be the more advanced playmaker that presses opponents, that way Kante will be in a better position to win the ball again and he has enough skill to receive the ball from the centre backs.

And I don't care about the speed of Jorginho anyone can press higher up and maybe at that position he might get an assist.

So just change their positions but keep their same roles, problem solved.

Well Sarri today confirmed he will not play Kante where he is at his best.....or as some call it a DM. But I dont take it seriously.....if performances dont go back up and the pressure mounts, he will have no choice than to mix it up until help come.

3 hours ago, Osgood is Good said:

Unfortunately, it appears that you do not understand the style of play implemented by Sarri. Watch Sarri's Napoli side and then you may understand that Jorgihno is integral. No point discussing any further.

Again, he worked in a different league with very different kind of football. Its therefore quite ridiculous to think you can just copy  what he did in Series A and expect the same results in the EPL.  Nevermid what i think. With former top pros saying what he's doing doesn't make sense then I would take some note of that. If you seriously think we will ever compete with the likes of City, with a midfield that cannot defend or attack then i give up! And I am not exaggerating when I say the trio of Jorginho, Kova and Kante (where he is) are crap at  both. I feel very sorry for a proven, high quality Premiership player like Kante.

3 hours ago, atomis said:

Well Sarri today confirmed he will not play Kante where he is at his best.....or as some call it a DM. But I dont take it seriously.....if performances dont go back up and the pressure mounts, he will have no choice than to mix it up until help come.

For me this just makes Sarri look as if he is after all just a one-dimensional coach, he can not work with a world class player like Kante if Kante does not adapt to his system, he doesn't make a team based on the strengths of his players, instead he prefers to buy Jorginho from Napoli because he got used to his system and others are forced to reinvent themselves.

OK who am I to say that but in essence Sarri is like a poor mans Pep Guardiola, if you give him the exact players he needs he will make a team, otherwise he will not bend his tactics even if there are world class players already in the team. This does not look good to me.

4 hours ago, Dixon said:

I don't care what label you put on him. He's in front of an already slow back four giving them next to no protection and then we wonder why teams can so easily get at our back four and create all kinds of problems. This defeat at Spurs was not a one off bad defensive performance. We've been getting awsy with it all season with Luiz making errors galore, weak defending from Alonso and  almost non existent protection from our hapless midfield. Relying on teams to keep missing good chances is not a tactic that will take us very far. Even a poor Southampton should have been 2 goals up before we got going.

 

Completely agree. I feel this will be our downfall. There is such a distinct lack of pace its unreal. Partner christensen with Rudiger for a few matches, and watch a marked improvement. But we know Sarri is too stubborn to change, hes as much as said he wont change the back four. 

1 hour ago, Dixon said:

Again, he worked in a different league with very different kind of football. Its therefore quite ridiculous to think you can just copy  what he did in Series A and expect the same results in the EPL.  Nevermid what i think. With former top pros saying what he's doing doesn't make sense then I would take some note of that. If you seriously think we will ever compete with the likes of City, with a midfield that cannot defend or attack then i give up! And I am not exaggerating when I say the trio of Jorginho, Kova and Kante (where he is) are crap at  both. I feel very sorry for a proven, high quality Premiership player like Kante.

As I said no point discussing any further as you don't appear to grasp his system.  Our manager has said today he will not be moving Kante, so instead of being impatient and complaining, support the manager, who is tactically much more qualified than you or I. 

It should be obvious why Luiz and Jorginho are so important to Sarri.  Teams get away pressing and countering because of our 9 play, fix the 9, everything else looks better. 

Through Balls

Rank	Player	Club	Nationality	Stat
1.	David Luiz	Chelsea	Brazil	11
2.	Jorginho	Chelsea	Italy	10

 

Passes

Rank	Player	Club	Nationality	Stat
1.	Jorginho	Chelsea	Italy	1,237
2.	Aymeric Laporte	Manchester City	France	1,151
3.	Granit Xhaka	Arsenal	Switzerland	1,053
4.	David Luiz	Chelsea	Brazil	1,050
5.	Antonio Rüdiger	Chelsea	Germany	1,049

 

Offside

Rank	Player	Club	Nationality	Stat
1.	Álvaro Morata	Chelsea	Spain	18

33 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

For me this just makes Sarri look as if he is after all just a one-dimensional coach, he can not work with a world class player like Kante if Kante does not adapt to his system, he doesn't make a team based on the strengths of his players, instead he prefers to buy Jorginho from Napoli because he got used to his system and others are forced to reinvent themselves.

OK who am I to say that but in essence Sarri is like a poor mans Pep Guardiola, if you give him the exact players he needs he will make a team, otherwise he will not bend his tactics even if there are world class players already in the team. This does not look good to me.

It will be his downfall if changes are needed and he doesnt act.......hey we can only wish we get back up again after 4-5 rather slow bad displays.......but if the recent trend keeps going he'll have to change.......or die by his style. I hope he pulls through, liked how we played and pressed until we hit a small wall. Footy waits on no one, the best managers are here, strong top 6 teams etc.....with rotten refs all around. But yeah a good manager plays to the teams strenghts and build from there.......imo we do not have the team to play Sarri style all game very game in epl, no where near.

7 minutes ago, atomis said:

It will be his downfall if changes are needed and he doesnt act.......hey we can only wish we get back up again after 4-5 rather slow bad displays.......but if the recent trend keeps going he'll have to change.......or die by his style. I hope he pulls through, liked how we played and pressed until we hit a small wall. Footy waits on no one, the best managers are here, strong top 6 teams etc.....with rotten refs all around. But yeah a good manager plays to the teams strenghts and build from there.......imo we do not have the team to play Sarri style all game very game in epl, no where near.

We are tied for 2nd in Goals scored and we are tied for 2nd in goals conceded, without a proven 9, I think his style is fine.  We don't have the team to play any style and win the premier league right now, we need something out of our man up top.  

Delete

Edited November 28, 20187 yr by atomis

13 minutes ago, Wearyourblue said:

We are tied for 2nd in Goals scored and we are tied for 2nd in goals conceded, without a proven 9, I think his style is fine.  We don't have the team to play any style and win the premier league right now, we need something out of our man up top.  

YEs but thats why I said if our small blip keeps on going.........it could well get worse if teams have figured us out and Sarri refuses fix it another way. We ourselves are to blame too.........we keep starting way too slow these past games........im sure we will get back on track come soon, I hope so anyway.......and forget the title, no so long as pep the cheque book manager keeps on spending to rid himself of flaws, its theirs as long as he is there.

4 hours ago, Gol15 said:

For me this just makes Sarri look as if he is after all just a one-dimensional coach, he can not work with a world class player like Kante if Kante does not adapt to his system, he doesn't make a team based on the strengths of his players, instead he prefers to buy Jorginho from Napoli because he got used to his system and others are forced to reinvent themselves.

OK who am I to say that but in essence Sarri is like a poor mans Pep Guardiola, if you give him the exact players he needs he will make a team, otherwise he will not bend his tactics even if there are world class players already in the team. This does not look good to me.

Exactly!

We have two world class players who've proved themselves over a number of years in the EPL. He takes one of them and turns him into a player who now looks like a journeyman, just so he can fit in a player completely unproven in the EPL.  This is clearly stupidly wrong!

13 hours ago, Osgood is Good said:

As I said no point discussing any further as you don't appear to grasp his system.  Our manager has said today he will not be moving Kante, so instead of being impatient and complaining, support the manager, who is tactically much more qualified than you or I. 

 

18 hours ago, Osgood is Good said:

Unfortunately, it appears that you do not understand the style of play implemented by Sarri. Watch Sarri's Napoli side and then you may understand that Jorgihno is integral. No point discussing any further.

There are two golden rules in life.  Never enter a battle of wits against an unarmed man, and the bloke you are "discussing" this topic with has less football awareness than my cat.

Anyone claiming to be a Chelsea fan who can manage to shoehorn praise for City and a highlight about how far behind them we are into nearly EVERY post has to be just a little bit suspect.  You are arguing with one such, mate.

14 hours ago, Osgood is Good said:

As I said no point discussing any further as you don't appear to grasp his system.  Our manager has said today he will not be moving Kante, so instead of being impatient and complaining, support the manager, who is tactically much more qualified than you or I. 

So you're basically saying people like Lineker and Sheerer  dont understand his system. They too say it makes no sense.

1 hour ago, Dixon said:

So you're basically saying people like Lineker and Sheerer  dont understand his system. They too say it makes no sense.

No they don't understand Sarri's system, and unfortunately neither do you. There are a ton of you tube clips on here of Sarri's Napoli, showing how integral Jorginho is to the system, yet you would rather criticise our manager after one defeat. Speaks volumes for me.

2 hours ago, yorkleyblue said:

 

There are two golden rules in life.  Never enter a battle of wits against an unarmed man, and the bloke you are "discussing" this topic with has less football awareness than my cat.

Anyone claiming to be a Chelsea fan who can manage to shoehorn praise for City and a highlight about how far behind them we are into nearly EVERY post has to be just a little bit suspect.  You are arguing with one such, mate.

Cheers, explains everything. I'll add those 2 golden rules to my ever growing list of golden rules.