1 hour ago, Jangz said:

couple of things -

1) I still dont see how i backtracked - i said Kovacic is a great at running with the ball and beating a press. I still maintain that. If he had great vision with his dribbling ability and pace he would have been an amazing number 10.  this what i posted in verbatim - " We know what Kova is great at .. run with the ball, beat the press, track back etc but  he has 5 assists in 106 appearances for us .. that tells me he is not going to be your man to break down defences with his vision and passing."

it clearly says i think he is important because he can run with the ball. how did you conclude that i said he is important because of his vision and passing ability ? i see you have voted him as your player of the season, but there are things he does and things he doesnt . You can ignore stats all you like but if a player in a career spanning almost 7-8 years doesnt even have 30 odd assists - tell you something. 

 

2) i never compared Kova to KDB someone else did and i only responded to a ridiculous comparison with an appropriate response for affect. If someone compares KDB to Kova the first thing anyone brings up is the ability of KDB to play the final ball unlocking defenses which is way way better than what Kova does....  

i dont really care about what your opinion is .. if you still think Kova is this great playmaker .. upto you.. but you will may not have many takers for that.  

Uhm yes you did... Just because you replied to someone who originally compared them, you still compared them in your anology by saying he has no vision or longe range passing. That's just false... And you were called out on that for a reason. And again "way better than Kova does" is very different to saying "he has none" when talking about vision and long range passing... That's called a backtrack my friend, if you don't want to be put in this position, I would recommend not making blanket statements like that. 

Also, you're judging a player who plays deep on assists, not really a wise thing to do is it. If Tammy and Willian had scored some of the throughballs he had delivered he would've had a lot more assists, Reece James could've easily had about 10 assists this season because he's laid crosses on an absolute plate for our forwards, but it is what it is. KDB is an amazing player, but I don't think he would have over 20 assists if he was in our team, would he have more than Kovacic? Oh no doubt, but that's also because he plays further forward and takes more risks, rarely is he playing right in front of the defence. And of course, he does have better vision and passing, but KDB is in a league of his own in that aspect. 

I don't actually agree with the original KDB comparison you were replying to, I just think your initial point was almost just as ridiculous. And you can try to cling onto me denying stats as much as you like, I've already conceded on the Modric stat, I got a statistic wrong from near 10 years ago, oh my, what a blunder, I clearly don't watch football do I. Also, I've never said Kova is a great playmaker, but he's a lot better than what you give him credit for, and he's shown this season that when he plays the ball forward, his long range passing is very accurate and he can actually play a killer ball. 

Kovacic carries the ball forward and looks comfortable in tight spaces, I'm pretty sure that most people that voted for him didn't do it because of his end product but because of how well we runs with the ball and keeps possession. I don't think it's a stretch to say that we have been good when it came down to keeping possession and recycling the ball all over the pitch.

Our attacking players have been weak at some points during the season and Lampard complained about it, we missed a lot of chances and many observed how slow our attack was.
Our defending has been terrible but our midfield has done the job quite well part from the lack of creativity in the final third, that's probably why people focus on Kovacic, our attack had problems and our defense had problems but our midfield could compete for the most part of the season and Kovacic represented that, specially when it was difficult for us, e.g. against Bayern our attack and defense looked very poor but our midfield looked decent.

Any comparison to KDB is thus absolutely pointless, as far as this season goes. 

Mason Mount for me ahead of Dave and Kovacic with a very honourable mention to Giroud.

4 hours ago, Slojo said:

Uhm yes you did... Just because you replied to someone who originally compared them, you still compared them in your anology by saying he has no vision or longe range passing. That's just false... And you were called out on that for a reason. And again "way better than Kova does" is very different to saying "he has none" when talking about vision and long range passing... That's called a backtrack my friend, if you don't want to be put in this position, I would recommend not making blanket statements like that. 

Also, you're judging a player who plays deep on assists, not really a wise thing to do is it. If Tammy and Willian had scored some of the throughballs he had delivered he would've had a lot more assists, Reece James could've easily had about 10 assists this season because he's laid crosses on an absolute plate for our forwards, but it is what it is. KDB is an amazing player, but I don't think he would have over 20 assists if he was in our team, would he have more than Kovacic? Oh no doubt, but that's also because he plays further forward and takes more risks, rarely is he playing right in front of the defence. And of course, he does have better vision and passing, but KDB is in a league of his own in that aspect. 

I don't actually agree with the original KDB comparison you were replying to, I just think your initial point was almost just as ridiculous. And you can try to cling onto me denying stats as much as you like, I've already conceded on the Modric stat, I got a statistic wrong from near 10 years ago, oh my, what a blunder, I clearly don't watch football do I. Also, I've never said Kova is a great playmaker, but he's a lot better than what you give him credit for, and he's shown this season that when he plays the ball forward, his long range passing is very accurate and he can actually play a killer ball. 

1) On backtracking-->you said i was back-tracking 2 posts back.. i wrote "way better" in my last post. So you still havent answered my original question on how did you come to the conclusion i am back tracking from this statement?-

 We know what Kova is great at .. run with the ball, beat the press, track back etc but  he has 5 assists in 106 appearances for us .. that tells me he is not going to be your man to break down defences with his vision and passing."

2) My response being ridiculous -->Nopes i also dont agree with your part about my point being ridiculous atall - you have to read it in context.. Almost everyone uses satire/hyper extension of examples to make a point in forum. thats the reason only you found it to be so negative whicle Kova has received the max votes for POTs

3) Stats- i didnt bring up modric again - i dont know you - why would i judge your football knowledge/experience  - why are you getting excited? i just said you are ignoring stats. Another one - on an average Jorginho plays more accurate long balls than Kova -

https://www.whoscored.com/Players/106968/Show/Jorginho

https://www.whoscored.com/Players/93894/Show/Mateo-Kovacic

 

3) Real question  - Kovacic's vision --> I get it we dont finish chances but didnt kova also play at RM and Inter where his numbers werent much better ? yes you are right i dont have a high opinion of Kova's ability to play through balls and display the creative vision required.. Infact he started his career more as an AM where he was given freedom to take risks.. but there is a reason he was asked to come deeper...

Like i said with Kovacic's dribbling and pace if he had that vision he would have been something else and probably a leading AM in the world. i am actually happy with his contribution i feel i understand the player's game and hopefully he builds on that..

Beyond this each to his own..

 

Azpilicueta for me!

 

Honourable mentions for Mount, Kova and Tammy. 
 

I just feel that out of the entire squad Azpilicueta has been far and away the most consistent across the entirety of the season. All other players have had slumps or spells out of the squad but Azpi is the stalwart who is there every week and putting in great performances. 

Kova and Azpi are close.   actually think Kova could shiled the ball all teh way into the oppositions goal, but he seems to get vertigo whenever he gets into the final 3rd of the pitch.

Dave has been solid all year, regardless of where he plays.

I'd put Mount in as YPOTY

I find incredible that Azpi is second in number of asssits with 6, Kova has 3 (according to the PL webpage). Actually, Azpi is the first in number of tackles, interceptions and passes! Such a great player.

Edited July 31, 20205 yr by RMH