Just now, Valerie said:

Don't you ever learn?

but people were voting for him for his consistency.... Im just saying he wasn't consistent at all?

4 hours ago, driller97 said:

I said they were similar players in terms of style of play, not their actual level...

Kovacic plays similar to KDB in terms of finesse and making the balls, Mount plays similar to Henderson in terms of just running a lot and bringing energy, and for me the Kovacic/KDB type player is miles ahead.

Stop trying to take what I say out of context, you clearly knew what I was trying to say.

Mount plays in an advanced role just like KDB and he does have a better end product than Kovacic that plays deeper like Henderson who has a lower end product, so you're comparing apples and oranges. Anyone can read everything you said, I didn't take anything out of context you're just wrong, it's that simple  

 

23 minutes ago, driller97 said:

but people were voting for him for his consistency.... Im just saying he wasn't consistent at all?

Read back your first few words. You really come across as very intolerant of opinions that you don't share. You attack instead of discuss, perhaps inadvertently.

3 minutes ago, Valerie said:

Read back your first few words. You really come across as very intolerant of opinions that you don't share. You attack instead of discuss, perhaps inadvertently.

I didn't think that post was an attack? Was just raising a point. The people above who voted Azpi noted it was for his consistency but myself personally (and im sure others) know that Azpi has actually been quite poor this season for parts of it and its probably in fact one of his least consistent seasons hes had.

There isn't a stand-out player who was amazing all season. I went for Giroud just because he came in from the cold and played a massive part in helping us finish in the top 4 and getting to a cup final.

4 minutes ago, driller97 said:

I didn't think that post was an attack? Was just raising a point. The people above who voted Azpi noted it was for his consistency but myself personally (and im sure others) know that Azpi has actually been quite poor this season for parts of it and its probably in fact one of his least consistent seasons hes had.

Starting a post with "People voting Azpi...." when it's about something very subjective as POTS is not showing any insight that there is no right or wrong answer. You confirm that lack of insight by stating that you know he has been poor. No, you think he's been poor. That is something you can discuss. Stating you know is slamming the door shut.

10 minutes ago, Valerie said:

Starting a post with "People voting Azpi...." when it's about something very subjective as POTS is not showing any insight that there is no right or wrong answer. You confirm that lack of insight by stating that you know he has been poor. No, you think he's been poor. That is something you can discuss. Stating you know is slamming the door shut.

Because Im addressing the people that voted Azpi? That was the whole point of the post lol.

But yeah I see what you're saying, choice of words were not ideal, but I wanted to spark a discussion about Azpi

57 minutes ago, driller97 said:

I didn't think that post was an attack? Was just raising a point. The people above who voted Azpi noted it was for his consistency but myself personally (and im sure others) know that Azpi has actually been quite poor this season for parts of it and its probably in fact one of his least consistent seasons hes had.

Depends how we define consistency, if we look at it from the perspective of the standards Azpi has set over the last few years than I agree he has not been as consistent as he has been historically however even with the drop off in performance he has been our most consistent performer this year.

We also need to take into consideration that he has played in 3 different positions this year across a highly inconsistent and under performing back line and has out-performed our specialist full backs on both sides.

Edited July 28, 20205 yr by Imran_CFC

1 hour ago, Valerie said:

Don't you ever learn?

? You’ve made me lol, it’s like a mother telling off her kid for doing the same sh*t all over again... And his reply like “but but I haven’t done anything...”. You’ve probably heard my laughter across the channel ?

10 minutes ago, Imran_CFC said:

Depends how we define consistency, if we look at it from the perspective of the standards Azpi has set over the last few years than I agree he has not been as consistent as he has been historically however even with the drop off in performance he has been our most consistent performer this year.

We also need to take into consideration that he has played in 3 different positions this year across a highly inconsistent and under performing back line and has out-performed our specialist full backs on both sides.

Yeah that is of course what im comparing Azpi to, his past seasons! Him compared to seasons of the past few years, this has probably been one of the worst he's had. He's still Mr. Reliable but there have definitely been several games this season where he has been poor.

Saying that, he has definitely been very good whenever he played as part of a 3 man CB with RJ as the wingback, but in a back 4 he's had several bad games.

2 minutes ago, RMH said:

? You’ve made me lol, it’s like a mother telling off her kid for doing the same sh*t all over again... And his reply like “but but I haven’t done anything...”. You’ve probably heard my laughter across the channel ?

And here I was frantically hoisting up my outside sunscreens because I thought I heard thunder

It's tough love

12 hours ago, Jangz said:

I don’t know what you are on about.. in the entire video he plays 4 balls of note over two seasons.. for Willian , Kante and Tammy..  rest of the stuff with not a player around him is something that o would expect most PL players to be able to play..

We know what Kova is great at .. run with the ball, beat the press, track back etc but  he has 5 assists in 106 appearances for us .. that tells me he is not going to be your man to break down defences with his vision and passing.

look I love the lad but facts are facts..

Barkley has 10 goals 11 assists in 77 games 

mount has 8 goals 6 assists in 51

Kante has 8 goals 5 assists in 80

RLC has 10 goals and 7 assists in 50

his productivity is only better than Jorginho over the same period.. will i really enjoyed the video and thanks for posting .. but I don’t see anything there that tells me he is a great with these attributes.. 

to give u another bar- Fred from Utd has 2 goals 4 assists in 45!

You literally said none... Now you're backtracking. Kante has played box to box, he gets up field more, Barkley plays a lot more offensively and takes more risks, same with RLC and Mount, how can you compare them to Kovacic who clearly plays deeper? Before Real signed Modric who was touted as the best midfielder in the world, he had 1 assist in the whole league. Kovacic starts play from deep, which he's done all season, getting the ball to Willian/Pulisic/Mount. 

Your comparisons are off. 

2 hours ago, evissy said:

1.Azpilicueta 2 Mount 3.Pulisic and 4.Kovacic.

A really tough one. I went for leadership and consistency.

You're totally on point here, Azpilicueta has been our main leader and has been consistently our best defender this season, on top of it he made a good amount of assists as well and he's at the top when it comes to many important stats, he did his job as our captain and did a good job both as a RB, LB and also CB when we played with 3 at the back so he was really playing like a captain should and he was consistent regardless of where he played.

The main reason why I didn't vote for Azpilicueta is because of the sheer amount of defensive problems we have had, I voted for Mount because he exceeded my expectations and I weighted in the fact that he's 20-21 and that this was his first season.

Azpilicueta is also been picked by Frank almost every game. I know it is sort of lame but if you think about it who is a better choice.

Lot of pundits and experts go for Kovacic, which is a good shout but he is far from being someone who we need to win. Not sure if Azpi is that either but he has played almost every game and we finished 4th.

Pulisic gave us 3rd of games where he was very good.

Mount played a lot but was maybe too inconsistent which is pretty much given because of his age and position. Anyway you could pick him as well.

1 hour ago, Slojo said:

You literally said none... Now you're backtracking. Kante has played box to box, he gets up field more, Barkley plays a lot more offensively and takes more risks, same with RLC and Mount, how can you compare them to Kovacic who clearly plays deeper? Before Real signed Modric who was touted as the best midfielder in the world, he had 1 assist in the whole league. Kovacic starts play from deep, which he's done all season, getting the ball to Willian/Pulisic/Mount. 

Your comparisons are off. 

can you highlight the part where i am back tracking ?.. i saw your video and in highlight real of 2 years there are in all 3 passes that make you stand up and watch..  He plays deeper and not as an anchor man.. infact he is as box to box as they get.. he doesnt stand next to our CBs to prevent attacks and rather joins the attack at every opportunity.. Kovacic plays deeper because thats his game.. There have been umpteen number of times when he has carried the ball to the edge of the box and player it sideways.. 

i dont know why you are doing this - posting without even doing basic research.. and you say my comparisons are off ? here are Modric numbers for you. he won Ballon d'or in 2018 .. he had 6 assists in 2017-18 and 6 assists in 2018-19. as a 34 year old

Again you can hold on to your belief on Kova.. but i doubt you will have any evidence to support that view ...  i think kova is great player and has a role in the team.. lets appreciate and enjoy that and not make up stuff.. 

09/10 season ---> 32 - 3 G, 7A (25 years old) 

10/11 season ---> 43 - 4 G, 3A

11/12 season --> 45 - 5G, 7A ---> last season with spurs 6 assists

12/13 season --> 53 - 4G, 8A

13/14 season ---> 51 - 2G, 9A

14/15 ---> 25 - 1G, 5A

15/16 --> 44 - 3G, 4A

16/17 --> 41 - 1G, 5A

17/18 --> 43 - 2G, 8A

18/19 --> 46 - 4G, 8A

Edited July 28, 20205 yr by Jangz

@Jangz If you post a youtube video of any player, he will tell you that it's invalid because anyone can look good on youtube. Either he changed his opinion or...?

3 hours ago, Valerie said:

Read back your first few words. You really come across as very intolerant of opinions that you don't share. You attack instead of discuss, perhaps inadvertently.

Careful, you’ll get accused of being a racist. 

Listen, you lot are a bunch of damn fools for not knowing how bloody smart and brilliant I am. 

18 minutes ago, Munkworth said:

Careful, you’ll get accused of being a racist. 

Can't I be idiotist?

16 minutes ago, Valerie said:

Can't I be idiotist?

I think you should leave this forum for the crime of forming your own opinion that differs from mine. 

58 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

@Jangz If you post a youtube video of any player, he will tell you that it's invalid because anyone can look good on youtube. Either he changed his opinion or...?

Difference is you were showing a 2 minute video of Essien in 2010-2011 saying he was great, when everyone told you he wasn't, that was after his 2nd knee injury, we were terrible that season, I have no idea how we even managed to finish 2nd, it goes to show how bad other teams were then. This guy said Kovacic has 0 vision and passing, one video can dispute that. 

Also, talk about a change of opinion, you were telling everyone Kovacic is garbage on here about a few weeks ago, you've soon changed your opinion there haven't you. Whichever the way the wind is blowing eh? 
 

1 hour ago, Jangz said:

can you highlight the part where i am back tracking ?.. i saw your video and in highlight real of 2 years there are in all 3 passes that make you stand up and watch..  He plays deeper and not as an anchor man.. infact he is as box to box as they get.. he doesnt stand next to our CBs to prevent attacks and rather joins the attack at every opportunity.. Kovacic plays deeper because thats his game.. There have been umpteen number of times when he has carried the ball to the edge of the box and player it sideways.. 

i dont know why you are doing this - posting without even doing basic research.. and you say my comparisons are off ? here are Modric numbers for you. he won Ballon d'or in 2018 .. he had 6 assists in 2017-18 and 6 assists in 2018-19. as a 34 year old

Again you can hold on to your belief on Kova.. but i doubt you will have any evidence to support that view ...  i think kova is great player and has a role in the team.. lets appreciate and enjoy that and not make up stuff.. 

09/10 season ---> 32 - 3 G, 7A (25 years old) 

10/11 season ---> 43 - 4 G, 3A

11/12 season --> 45 - 5G, 7A ---> last season with spurs 6 assists

12/13 season --> 53 - 4G, 8A

13/14 season ---> 51 - 2G, 9A

14/15 ---> 25 - 1G, 5A

15/16 --> 44 - 3G, 4A

16/17 --> 41 - 1G, 5A

17/18 --> 43 - 2G, 8A

18/19 --> 46 - 4G, 8A

You backtracked because you originally said he has no vision or longe range passing. As someone already told you, he plays in the middle of the park, he's not a player who's running into the box or roaming around the edge of the box, he plays deep. I'll concede on the Modric assists, it was a long time ago I remember him not having a lot of assists and people at the time were using this argument to call him overrated, even Chelsea fans when we were rumoured to sign him under AVB. Still, Modric is a world class midfielder, you're comparing Kova to another one, KDB, not really a valid comparison is it, and on top of that you said he has no vision, that right there is complete bollocks, no matter how many stats you want to throw my way. 

Edited July 28, 20205 yr by Slojo

On 27/07/2020 at 18:39, Jangz said:

I am sorry but you are way off with that comparison.. the only belgian he is similar to is Dembele ... but KDB's numbers are insane he has created 20 Assists.. Kova has one goal and 3 assists. I dont know how you can make this comparison.. KDB has amazing vision, passing range, shooting ability - Kovacic has none... not sure on the barkley comparison either.. different players..

On his best day mount will score hatricks.. not sure barkley ever has scored a hat trick... ever

From this, to now saying "Kovacic plays an important role", if that's not a backtrack I don't know what is. 

He clearly does have a good passing range and vision, obviously not on the level of KDB, but that's not exactly a terrible thing is it, KDB is in a league of his own. 

12 minutes ago, Slojo said:

Difference is you were showing a 2 minute video of Essien in 2010-2011 saying he was great, when everyone told you he wasn't, that was after his 2nd knee injury, we were terrible that season, I have no idea how we even managed to finish 2nd, it goes to show how bad other teams were then. This guy said Kovacic has 0 vision and passing, one video can dispute that. 

 

You have stated multiple times that you dislike youtube videos, you complained about it multiple times regarding multiple players. Just keep it steady now, I prefer that you use videos and I don't agree with the notion that a video isn't valid.

7 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

You have stated multiple times that you dislike youtube videos, you complained about it multiple times regarding multiple players. Just keep it steady now, I prefer that you use videos and I don't agree with the notion that a video isn't valid.

I haven't, I've often used montages before, but a youtube video can make anyone look good. There's no hypocrisy here, you're clutching straws and trying to find it, my argument is valid. If I said Essien couldn't pass a ball properly in 2011, and you showed me that video, then you would've proved me wrong and had a point. But I didn't say that did I, I said Essien was poor that season, a 2 minute video doesn't suffice. 

 

8 hours ago, Slojo said:

 

You backtracked because you originally said he has no vision or longe range passing. As someone already told you, he plays in the middle of the park, he's not a player who's running into the box or roaming around the edge of the box, he plays deep. I'll concede on the Modric assists, it was a long time ago I remember him not having a lot of assists and people at the time were using this argument to call him overrated, even Chelsea fans when we were rumoured to sign him under AVB. Still, Modric is a world class midfielder, you're comparing Kova to another one, KDB, not really a valid comparison is it, and on top of that you said he has no vision, that right there is complete bollocks, no matter how many stats you want to throw my way. 

couple of things -

1) I still dont see how i backtracked - i said Kovacic is a great at running with the ball and beating a press. I still maintain that. If he had great vision with his dribbling ability and pace he would have been an amazing number 10.  this what i posted in verbatim - " We know what Kova is great at .. run with the ball, beat the press, track back etc but  he has 5 assists in 106 appearances for us .. that tells me he is not going to be your man to break down defences with his vision and passing."

it clearly says i think he is important because he can run with the ball. how did you conclude that i said he is important because of his vision and passing ability ? i see you have voted him as your player of the season, but there are things he does and things he doesnt . You can ignore stats all you like but if a player in a career spanning almost 7-8 years doesnt even have 30 odd assists - tell you something. 

 

2) i never compared Kova to KDB someone else did and i only responded to a ridiculous comparison with an appropriate response for affect. If someone compares KDB to Kova the first thing anyone brings up is the ability of KDB to play the final ball unlocking defenses which is way way better than what Kova does....  

i dont really care about what your opinion is .. if you still think Kova is this great playmaker .. upto you.. but you will may not have many takers for that.