39 minutes ago, The Rising Sun said:

I have to defend Gol here. I'm of the generation that used words that are unacceptable today.

I can tell you it absolutely does NOT follow that it means that the person is a racist.  The generation before me laid down their lives to fight against racist, Nazi ideology, they, and myself used words that to us were just descriptive of certain races , we had no other reference point. In fact I remember when we told that using the word " blacks" was insulting..." Coloured" was more acceptable.

You can't hold a moral judgement by judging others from past generations by the standards of today, which did not exist back then but evolved over time .

Racism and homophobia are abhorrent to me , but I grew up supporting Chelsea when it wasn't exactly unusual.

Times have moved on , thank God it's not acceptable anymore.

 

Spot on mate, we clearly come from similar backgrounds and both have similar moral compasses today.

I am not singling out @Gol15 comments but I don't think citing culture in this day and age cuts it really. The Internet and commercialisation has wiped out most elements of culture and heritage. Everybody in the civilised world knows what is and what's not acceptable. 

"kick it out " chief exec has said this is NOT just about Enzo. It's about EVERY player involved in it .

Guy on radio was saying his team Liverpool had players on the bus and the club need to investigate.

The other thing mentioned was that it's unusual for players from the same club to speak up against one of their own teammates.

I ain't seen the video, are other players identifiable,?

French Football Federation are looking to take action too, apparently.

It's not a news item in Argentina though..

Poverty, corruption, inflation are the main news.

3 hours ago, El regreso said:

Who is demanding an end to his career?

It's important for him to comprehend the offensiveness of his statement, going beyond mere banter, especially for someone like me who is black. 

I hope he can rejoin the team and restore harmony, but he should be punished first, just like every player who sang that song on the bus.

If he hadn't streamed it, we wouldn't have known this side of him, suggesting he's comfortable with these things.

Contrition is needed.

Well said....or typed. You know what I mean.

20 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Being offensive and rude doesn't mean fans are automatically racist.

If France were to beat Argentina while having some players that have Argentinian roots or heritage, the Argentinian fans would mock them for that too, would that mean that they are then racist towards themselves? LOL

You should disconnect some dots maybe, trying to diminish a nation by pointing out that Mbappe's father isn't French but from somewhere else isn't really a racist statement at all since it doesn't mock Mbappe nor his background but it mocks the national team by implying that without Mbappe France would be a worse team and are only better with him...

Gol, but it's cultural.! Exactly your point isn't it? It would  be a British "cultural" perspective. Nothing more. According to you nothing for any Argentinian folk to be upset about. Surely this wouldn't bother you in the slightest?

 

5 minutes ago, just said:

Gol, but it's cultural.! Exactly your point isn't it? It would  be a British "cultural" perspective. Nothing more. According to you nothing for any Argentinian folk to be upset about. Surely this wouldn't bother you in the slightest?

Exactly, feel free to try it they won't be the ones calling you racist I can assure you that much... 

Well, whatever we think about it,  some of our  players ARE offended by it.

And that's the problem isn't it. 

f**king hell, we know how to f**k everything up don't we ?

59 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

In South America it's very normal to call a person with a darker skin tone as "morenita" or "negra" and nobody cares, pointing out a person's appearance simply isn't considered rude there so you can't ignore the fact that the cultures around the world are different and that certain things don't have loaded meanings at all as in other places, in the Western world calling someone short is seen as rude but if you get upset if someone calls you "chaparrito" in the Latin-American culture you would be seen as a more sensitive person than normal.

Bothering and being rude isn't the same as being racist, like England fans saying to Germany "2 World Wars, 1 World Cup", offensive, teasing and mocking is a given but is it racist?

 

 

The second paragraph sees you confusing xenophobia with racism, and the first paragraph is a load of false equivalences that betray your lack of understanding of racism (and why it matters). 

Would suggest you a) read some books, and b) consider racism in terms of impact rather than intent. 

@The Rising Sun

I get what you're saying to a degree, however there has never been a time where paki was not a racist term. I don't think it is analogous with the black/coloured example you cite. 

Edited July 17, 20242 yr by g3.7

1 hour ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Did this ever come to fruition? 

Chelsea to send racist fans on Auschwitz trips instead of banning them

We used to sing songs about Auschwitz and Tottenham . f**king hell when you think of the things us fans thought were suitable for " banter" back then it's f**king shameful.

4 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Exactly, feel free to try it they won't be the ones calling you racist I can assure you that much... 

Ah, so they would be fine with it? No Argentinian outrage at all? All just football bants said in the moment at a match.

"Galtieri sawed your sister's legs off". Or maybe something a bit more jokey, "Your Grenades were f**kin sh*t, blew your own boy's heads to bits".

Yeah. Sure. They'd be fine. 

Just now, just said:

Ah, so they would be fine with it? No Argentinian outrage at all? All just football bants said in the moment at a match.

"Galtieri sawed your sister's legs off". Or maybe something a bit more jokey, "Your Grenades were f**kin sh*t, blew your own boy's heads to bits".

Yeah. Sure. They'd be fine. 

You need me to repeat it to you?

Feel free to try, I guarantee you that they won't be the ones to call you a racist, they will call you other things but that's not what we're talking about now isn't it? 

Learn the difference between being offensive and being a racist maybe?

2 minutes ago, The Rising Sun said:

We used to sing songs about Auschwitz and Tottenham . f**king hell when you think of the things us fans thought were suitable for " banter" back then it's f**king shameful.

And The Black and White minstrel show used to be prime time TV on the BBC on Sunday evenings.  

Just now, Gol15 said:

You need me to repeat it to you?

Feel free to try, I guarantee you that they won't be the ones to call you a racist, they will call you other things but that's not what we're talking about now isn't it? 

Learn the difference between being offensive and being a racist maybe?

So being racist isn't offensive?

1 minute ago, just said:

So being racist isn't offensive?

You wouldn't necessarily be a racist while being offensive. What is racist about talking about a war or about some former president?

Enzo isn't a racist by being offensive either so you prove my point here, thanks.

Simple solution - sell Enzo, keep Conor.

8 minutes ago, just said:

And The Black and White minstrel show used to be prime time TV on the BBC on Sunday evenings.  

It ran for years at that theatre in Victoria.

Not really the same as mocking mass murder though.

 

 

Edited July 17, 20242 yr by The Rising Sun
Info

8 minutes ago, just said:

And The Black and White minstrel show used to be prime time TV on the BBC on Sunday evenings.  

Remember when they tried to relaunch spitting image...they couldn't! Failed miserably.

Times have changed...I remember when "paki" was part of everyday vocabulary at Kensington barracks!

I know I moan a lot about what the world and especially what today's youth have become (I'm a grumpy old fart) but some things I'm truly grateful has changed (well...changing!)

Edited July 17, 20242 yr by Simplymo

15 hours ago, STATS said:

No. Disagree. It is good that players are vocal on matters like this. It feels personal to him which it is and is racist. It is right that he is called out for it and made to feel the weight of his actions by his own teammates. If Fernandez is so openly posting it, then his teammates should also openly make him feel the weight of his actions.

Probably separated the paragraph too much for you, as the line later on explains the general point. Ultimately, it’s about how piss poor our squad dynamics are, the relationships in the dressing room. It’s clearly just a collection of colleagues rather than a ‘team’, absolutely no chance Drogba adds fuel to the fire towards JT, they are team-‘mates’, phone calls are made, sh*t gets ironed out essentially. No leaders, no real ‘collective’ spirit, an absolute mess of a ‘team’. The football associations and of course, club punishments are a given, I’m simply observing how these lot are a collection of strangers to each other.

Maresca has the task of a life time cleaning this up and you can bet BlueCo won’t be adding any asterisks to those KPI’s for the season despite this. 

8 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

You wouldn't necessarily be a racist while being offensive. What is racist about talking about a war or about some former president?

Enzo isn't a racist by being offensive either so you prove my point here, thanks.

Nice swerve from giving a direct answer Gol. I repeat. Do you accept singing a clearly racist song could be deemed deeply offensive? No other words are needed other than a plain. Yes or No.

4 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

You wouldn't necessarily be a racist while being offensive. What is racist about talking about a war or about some former president?

Enzo isn't a racist by being offensive either so you prove my point here, thanks.

Hi mate.

Offensive or racist, both unacceptable?

The problem is, some of our players ain't having it no matter what we think about it.

 

 

 

 

The bloke doesn't understand what racism is, and seems to think his own ignorance is a source of amusement. 

1 minute ago, The Rising Sun said:

Hi mate.

Offensive or racist, both unacceptable?

The problem is, some of our players ain't having it no matter what we think about it.

 

 

 

 

Sure it's unacceptable but it's not the same, Enzo while being offensive, wasn't a racist.

He also apologized to the French teammates, now if that's going to be enough only time will tell.

1 hour ago, The Rising Sun said:

Enzo discussion on talk sport in a minute of anyone's interested ?

Warning 

Big twat Rory Jennings is on it

Anything with this twat is a no for me!!

One of the worst self style social media representatives for Chelsea 

2 minutes ago, g3.7 said:

The bloke doesn't understand what racism is, and seems to think his own ignorance is a source of amusement. 

Apparently you believe that being offensive means that a person is automatically a racist because someone got offended xD

11 minutes ago, just said:

Nice swerve from giving a direct answer Gol. I repeat. Do you accept singing a clearly racist song could be deemed deeply offensive? No other words are needed other than a plain. Yes or No.

Explain how is it a clearly racist song if you can. Also answer my question while you're at it, if France had some players with Argentinian heritage/roots, would the Argentinian team be racist against themselves for pointing that out and mocking the French team?

 

Edited July 17, 20242 yr by Gol15