8 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

I can in that case assure you that nobody in whole South America considers Enzo a racist twat either, but feel free to judge him from your angle there that has a completely different context in comparison to how people are in another part of the world...

Not even a day has passed and you've already done a whole South America population survey on the topic, wow, that was fast.

2 minutes ago, RMH said:

Hmmm, how do we take this as he's African, obviously he doesn't feel offended. Are we blowing it out of proportion? I don't know, I'm not black or homosexual (let's not forget the LGBTIQ+ community was also target of the chant) so I can't really tell a black person how to feel about the Argentinean chant. I think that the best option is that Enzo goes back to Cobham and the players solve the issue amongst themselves, and the Club to take disciplinary action.

Easy to explain from my opinion. I don’t know him or his mentality but having been around black people who excuse racism these black people think “ they are not talking about me” it’s the other black people they talking about. I am okay because I am in the group.

Public example of this is certain politicians.

A movie example of is Django Unchained Samuel Jackson character.

21 minutes ago, abramovich said:

Not even a day has passed and you've already done a whole South America population survey on the topic, wow, that was fast.

Not fast enough apparently since you are ready to kick Enzo out of the team because of a different football culture than the one you're familiar with so talk about an epic stretch of a knee-jerk there, must have hurt...

Just now, Gol15 said:

Not fast enough apparently since you are ready to kick Enzo out of the team because of a different football culture than the one you're familiar with so talk about an epic stretch of a knee-jerk there, must have hurt...

But it's not just a different football culture than the one we are familiar with, it's the culture of the environment in which he gains his employment and maintains his social presence. Every person in all walks of life understand that certain codes, morals and standards have to be applied and adhered to.

Can you not see that your defence of this is contradictory in itself. Its as if you are endorsing the Argentinians' right to be racist as it forms part of the culture, whilst at the same time stating that neither he or his teammates are actually racist.

10 minutes ago, WhiteWall said:

But it's not just a different football culture than the one we are familiar with, it's the culture of the environment in which he gains his employment and maintains his social presence. Every person in all walks of life understand that certain codes, morals and standards have to be applied and adhered to.

Can you not see that your defence of this is contradictory in itself. Its as if you are endorsing the Argentinians' right to be racist as it forms part of the culture, whilst at the same time stating that neither he or his teammates are actually racist.

I think you can Google it, the fans in South America and the culture in South America is significantly different and this is reflected in the way the address each other in daily life as well as in football, the way they treat each other is different and it doesn't work in Europe which makes for these kinds of misunderstood situations.

What happened didn't happen in London while Enzo was in a double deck bus, it was in another part of the planet where things are different and it was in a completely different context and it should be look upon in it's own context that it touches, definitely no connection to CFC, the club didn't win Copa America.

Their football culture is simply different as is their culture in general. Rodri celebrating his own Euro win with saying how Gibraltar is Spain is more of a scandal than what happens on a bus full of Argentinian players.

Was Enzo stupid? Most definitely.

Does he deserve punishment? For sure.

Is he racist? Not at all.

12 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

I think you can Google it, the fans in South America and the culture in South America is significantly different and this is reflected in the way the address each other in daily life as well as in football, the way they treat each other is different and it doesn't work in Europe which makes for these kinds of misunderstood situations.

What happened didn't happen in London while Enzo was in a double deck bus, it was in another part of the planet where things are different and it was in a completely different context and it should be look upon in it's own context that it touches, definitely no connection to CFC, the club didn't win Copa America.

Their football culture is simply different as is their culture in general. Rodri celebrating his own Euro win with saying how Gibraltar is Spain is more of a scandal than what happens on a bus full of Argentinian players.

33 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

I think you can Google it, the fans in South America and the culture in South America is significantly different and this is reflected in the way the address each other in daily life as well as in football, the way they treat each other is different and it doesn't work in Europe which makes for these kinds of misunderstood situations.

What happened didn't happen in London while Enzo was in a double deck bus, it was in another part of the planet where things are different and it was in a completely different context and it should be look upon in it's own context that it touches, definitely no connection to CFC, the club didn't win Copa America.

Their football culture is simply different as is their culture in general. Rodri celebrating his own Euro win with saying how Gibraltar is Spain is more of a scandal than what happens on a bus full of Argentinian players.

I bet you call the Falklands Las malvinas...

Doesnt matter what was said or where, what was said was broadcast around the world and into this country, hence why CFC has acted quickly.

What you are describing to me is a highly racist society as its ok to call people out by their colour or sexual orientation... - If racism comes from communities as FIFA and governing bodies believe, then its fair comment to say the chants and fans come from racist communities. 

Rodri's comments are not comparable. Its his personal view on a political matter. 

Enzo's comments are on race & sexuality. 

He's done this to himself knowing that the chants are not acceptable and I doubt its the first time these have been sung. Fool me once shame on me, fool me twice, shame on you sort of thing. 

 

5 minutes ago, bluetrooper said:

I bet you call the Falklands Las malvinas...

Doesnt matter what was said or where, what was said was broadcast around the world and into this country, hence why CFC has acted quickly.

What you are describing to me is a highly racist society as its ok to call people out by their colour or sexual orientation... - If racism comes from communities as FIFA and governing bodies believe, then its fair comment to say the chants and fans come from racist communities. 

Rodri's comments are not comparable. Its his personal view on a political matter. 

Enzo's comments are on race & sexuality. 

He's done this to himself knowing that the chants are not acceptable and I doubt its the first time these have been sung. Fool me once shame on me, fool me twice, shame on you sort of thing. 

 

Silly, of course it matters what was said and where and in which context. Just because you don't understand another culture it doesn't mean it's racist.

This didn't happen during a FIFA observed football match either, I understand that FIFA wants to change the football cultures around the world after all they could charge Mexico's FA when the fans chant "puto" after a goal kick, that doesn't mean anything in reality but feel free to believe that it does...

Rodri might actually have that kind of a personal view but whole Argentina singing on a bus doesn't mean Enzo has any personal view on the matter at all so you're right it's not comparable at all. 

It's after all your own personal preference here, you prefer to think a lot about Enzo and nothing about Rodri, doesn't make you in any way correct.

2 minutes ago, abramovich said:

Not only that, he was dumb enough to post it on a social media. Personally I don't think Enzo is a racist, as in I doubt he hates black people and aims to discriminate against them based on their skin color. He's just a product of a backwards society where common views on race are much like they were in the West until 60-70 years ago. He's simply too stupid, immature and uneducated to understand how insensitive and unacceptable his actions were, otherwise he'd never sing it let alone share that video for everyone to see.

Dumb is the right word... its highly offensive to a lot of people who play football. It's upset his team mates, im sure it'll all pass as well, but again, the club have to get this right internally. Its the clubs decision, also, we're not living under Roman anymore so the idiocy of the likes of Kennedy who was effectively banished and killed his career, is going to be worked out by another group. 

 

3 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Silly, of course it matters what was said and where and in which context. Just because you don't understand another culture it doesn't mean it's racist.

This didn't happen during a FIFA observed football match either, I understand that FIFA wants to change the football cultures around the world after all they could charge Mexico's FA when the fans chant "puto" after a goal kick, that doesn't mean anything in reality but feel free to believe that it does...

Rodri might actually have that kind of a personal view but whole Argentina singing on a bus doesn't mean Enzo has any personal view on the matter at all so you're right it's not comparable at all. 

It's after all your own personal preference here, you prefer to think a lot about Enzo and nothing about Rodri, doesn't make you in any way correct.

Ive said my tuppence, the chant is highly offensive to a large number of folk across world football, If you want to defend it, carry on but forgive me for thinking you're a massive c u next tuesday and this will be the last time i ever interact with you. 

Racial sensitivity is considerably different in Argentina. This kind of behavior is normalized but as I've stated quite a few times there are a lot of Argentines that mean no malice. This xenophobia and racism (no point in trying to distinguish the two) is so doctrine in their culture to the point of ignorance. Since its socially accepted there, they have the idiotic belief it is elsewhere, hence Enzo's stupidity in actually recording himself. And that is what this whole thing was. Idiotic. 

 

Edited July 17, 20242 yr by Sconnie Blue

20 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Just because you don't understand another culture it doesn't mean it's racist

It’s the very definition of racist. Ignorance or ‘culture’ of whatever you want to call it, is no excuse. 

1 hour ago, Gol15 said:

I think you can Google it, the fans in South America and the culture in South America is significantly different and this is reflected in the way the address each other in daily life as well as in football, the way they treat each other is different and it doesn't work in Europe which makes for these kinds of misunderstood situations.

What happened didn't happen in London while Enzo was in a double deck bus, it was in another part of the planet where things are different and it was in a completely different context and it should be look upon in it's own context that it touches, definitely no connection to CFC, the club didn't win Copa America.

Their football culture is simply different as is their culture in general. Rodri celebrating his own Euro win with saying how Gibraltar is Spain is more of a scandal than what happens on a bus full of Argentinian players.

You missing the point. He has breached the club and probably FA rules at a minimum and caused a very public  rift in the dressing room. Whether his conduct is normal by his standards and Argentinian standards, and I don’t think it is, doesn’t matter. He has to abide by the Chelsea standard. 
 

ignorance is no excuse and never has been. It might be mitigation but it’s no excuse. 
And if Rodri does it as well, so what, that doesn’t make it right or acceptable. Just because other people steal cars doesn’t make it acceptable for you to steal one. 

Edited July 17, 20242 yr by ozboy

The media already hates Chelsea and now "Chelsea's" Enzo does this. [as an aside I was reading how former Man city player Palmer scored in the Euro final]. But the club has a real problem here. This is a massive disruption to the team/squad.

I wish the media would also go after the Argentinian Football Association and the coaches and the staff on that bus and also the darling of world football who was on that bus - will his club in Miami be taking action against him?

One solution would be to Ban Argentina from the next World cup?

14 minutes ago, bluetrooper said:

 

Ive said my tuppence, the chant is highly offensive to a large number of folk across world football, If you want to defend it, carry on but forgive me for thinking you're a massive c u next tuesday and this will be the last time i ever interact with you. 

Feel free to be offended nobody is stopping you but one day you'll maybe understand that it's just aimed as a dig at the French team, those players on the bus don't actually care about someone's skin color, they know that their own origin isn't exactly from any kind of "native Argentina" either... That's why context matters but if you don't get it no problem I have nothing personal against you so your insults just come across as awkward to me, I wasn't on that bus.

6 minutes ago, TheCeleryKing said:

One solution would be to Ban Argentina from the next World cup?

I think they will take a similar approach to what they did with Mexico and their PUTO chants. 

Fine the federation and don't allow any fans during their next qualifiers. Implement 5 year bans for players and fans should this chant (or any racial/derogatory chants henceforth) continue in the future. 

3 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Feel free to be offended nobody is stopping you but one day you'll maybe understand that it's just aimed as a dig at the French team, those players on the bus don't actually care about someone's skin color, they know that their own origin isn't exactly from any kind of "native Argentina" either... That's why context matters but if you don't get it no problem I have nothing personal against you so your insults just come across as awkward to me, I wasn't on that bus.

Not offended, But I dont want to give this behviour a pass and hopefully the club wont either. I think it is really sad to defend what to most people is racist and discriminatory and you clearly dont think there is something wrong with it because you are defending his behaviour. 

And if those players dont care about skin colour, why would they sing a chant about it? Im sorry, but your logic as warped as Argentinian society if you think its acceptable because of "cultural difference". what was said has insulted the French FA who are trying to set a standard in what is acceptable or not. Clearly to the French, what was sung isnt acceptable, nor to Forfana who has called it out. You dont think the chant is wrong. I do and thats why I said what I did before to you. Dont like folk justifying racism. 

I am sure the PL will take action as well, likely a ban. There were other PL players in the coach chanting but I’m not sure whether they were filmed doing it. 
 

Enzo is stupid for uploading the video. 

I’ll not defend Enzo at all but this says more about Argentinian society than Enzo himself.

Many countries are further down the road regarding tackling racism and having been myself I can say Argentina is one of the countries that lag behind. Some words which are abhorrent in our country are used commonly there.

Was he racist? Of course he was and he must be punished and educated but I don’t believe he is a racist at his core. 
 

If his teammates forgive him he has a Chelsea future. If they don’t then he has to go. A long term loan would probably be the only way due to his massive book value.

 

Barca will be licking their lips

1 hour ago, just said:

What a shock! Yet another thick as sh*t, brain-dead, educationally retarded, young, modern football player. Nothing they do surprises anyone does it?

And good on Wes Fofana to be the first to speak out and condemn it.

You also have the likes of Morata and Rodri singing "Gibraltar is Spanish" which has pissed off people in Gibraltar. I'm not sure it is quite as offensive as what we saw with the Argentinian squad, but it just shows that these players are putting on a front for the cameras when it comes to social issues.

30 minutes ago, TheCeleryKing said:

The media already hates Chelsea and now "Chelsea's" Enzo does this. [as an aside I was reading how former Man city player Palmer scored in the Euro final]. But the club has a real problem here. This is a massive disruption to the team/squad.

I wish the media would also go after the Argentinian Football Association and the coaches and the staff on that bus and also the darling of world football who was on that bus - will his club in Miami be taking action against him?

One solution would be to Ban Argentina from the next World cup?

They could ban them, but they won't. UEFA and FIFA love to talk like they care about these kinds of things, but when the time comes to act, they hand out the most pitiful punishments.

20 minutes ago, Gordon Bennett said:

So it's the fault of the English that Enzo Fernandez videoed himself singing a racist song? f**king hell 😂 

Who's said that?

10 hours ago, WhiteWall said:

So are you suggesting here that the club would effectively be endorsing his actions or are you saying this tongue in cheek?

Tongue and cheek mate, at the suggestion this means either Enzo or our French players have to go.

All expensive assets, much simple to pay for counciling and re education in sensitivity for Enzo.

 

9 hours ago, WhiteWall said:

Why do you think it's clear that he is very upset.

He seems an emotional player, and that is how I read his statement. They sang a song the Argie fanbase made up 2 years ago. Was incredibly stupid, but not malicious in intent imo.

1 hour ago, abramovich said:

Not only that, he was dumb enough to post it on a social media. Personally I don't think Enzo is a racist, as in I doubt he hates black people and aims to discriminate against them based on their skin color. He's just a product of a backwards society where common views on race are much like they were in the West until 60-70 years ago. He's simply too stupid, immature and uneducated to understand how insensitive and unacceptable his actions were, otherwise he'd never sing something like that, let alone share that video for everyone to see.

 

 

This is my take also he doesn't hate black people and has malice against them, he probably has some level of unconscious bias and ignorance which needs education.

 

Anyone knows the irony of this situation and some fans around the internet calling for him to get education and training??

It's fairly obvious, but I want to see if I am the only one who sees the irony here.

Edited July 17, 20242 yr by El regreso

7 minutes ago, El regreso said:

This is my take also he doesn't hate black people and has malice against them, he probably has some level of unconscious bias and ignorance which needs education.

 

Anyone knows the irony of this situation and some fans around the internet calling for him to get education and training??

It's fairly obvious, but I want to see if I am the only one who sees the irony here.

I think it goes well beyond some fans on the internet. 

Jules Koundé posted on social media calling Enzo racist, yet in the comment section there are hundreds of posts of a video of him and Griezmann poking fun of an oriental man.