You can't have it both way's ... we can't beat willian with a stick for poor stats and then on the other hand ignore them for Oscar. Erickson is hte main man for spurs, everything goes through him. We aren't that one dimensional. He's a good player, no doubt about it but if he was that good spurs would be in the top four comfortably. (See a cirtain suarez last season)

 

I maintain that we have a habit of looking at our own more critically then we do players on other sides... when your stressed out you notice every little pass go wrong, when you don't care you tend to miss the sh*t a bit

 

Statistics never tell the full story that's what it is really, Willian by watching him play the stats added up because he wasn't getting forward enough, wasn't beating players enough or roaming in dangerous positions. However he also had a duty at Chelsea he was hard working but he also got in on the play, he is actually a very good footballer, he doesn't lose the ball much I've noticed.

 

I'm not one of the ones suggesting to go get erikksen either, just an example, I mean come off it, if you think the spuds are going to sell to us you've got another thing coming, they wanted 50 million from us just for Modric yet happily sold him to Madrid for less than 40.

 

As for your last point that's not a bad thing, I would rather people be more realistic than delusional like many other sides fans. Also look at the criticism on here, have you looked at the Arsenal and City forums? They absolutely give there players sh*te if they can't win a game or do something properly, Navas gets it badly, Giroud wants to be murdered by a majority of Arsenal fans. Yet I think our criticism on players is a lot better, I say it's constructive criticism, at least everyone has explained there point here. At the end of the day we all want what is best for our team regardless, we are all on the same side.

I like Oscar but I do think he lacks that creative spark on a consistent basis. I know oscar is very good at pressing, but Mourinho has played fabregas in that role, who doesn't press anywhere near as much.

it begs the question do we really need a number 10 with Oscar's pressing qualities? Or could we get away with playing a fabregas type in the 10?

Would we be too open with a matic, fabregas pivot, and a player like a coutinho or Eriksen ahead of them?

Hard to argue any of the starting 11 have not been exceptional so far this season, with us being 7 points clear, but there will always be room for improvement.

Why do we need a Fabregas type in the 10 when we have a Fabregas in the pivot?

Fact is number 10s aren't the same as they once were so longing for a kaka in that role is pointless.

Fabregas is as good as he is in part due to Oscar doing what he does.

Why do we need a Fabregas type in the 10 when we have a Fabregas in the pivot?

Fact is number 10s aren't the same as they once were so longing for a kaka in that role is pointless.

Fabregas is as good as he is in part due to Oscar doing what he does.

That wasn't my point.

A few people have said that oscar is in that number 10 role because he is very good at pressing. however there have been a few games where we have played fabregas there, which begs the question how important is it to have oscar pressing in the number 10 role? And would we be a better team with fabregas playing further forward, and another midfielder brought in to partner matic.

Just playing devils advocate really. I don't think there is a great deal to improve on at the moment, were winning games and top of the league.

Can someone who is more knowledgeable about Coutinho give an assessment on his overall game and suggest how he would look if he were playing no.10 for us.

 

I always assumed that Oscar was the better prospect but the more i see of both of them i'm not sure.

 

From the few times i've seen Coutinho there are 3 things that i like.  Firstly he seems more athletic and faster than Oscar.  Secondly he seems to be a better dribbler and will take players on more often.  Thirdly i like his attitude.  He seems feisty and the kind of player you want in your side.

 

I'm not so sure about his passing, technical ability, workrate and defensive side of his game.  If anyone could enlighten me that would be great.

Except his goalscoring record, his number of assists and his defensive presence.

He's a young man but he's key to what we do and inconsistency is something that comes with being a young player. People talk about us bringing through youth but they will have ups and downs and its our job as supporters to stick by them.

 

With ''noting has changed'' I meant my opinion on him.

I'm not saying he's a bad player and I'm not really one for slating him when he has a bad performance. 

 

I just don't like Oscars style of play, he takes too much time on the ball for my liking and he loses posession far to often. 

A lot of times it's with the simpel passes. He doesn't have the an eye for the killer pass and more often than not he can't find his way out of a tight space. 

Except his goalscoring record, his number of assists and his defensive presence.

He's a young man but he's key to what we do and inconsistency is something that comes with being a young player. People talk about us bringing through youth but they will have ups and downs and its our job as supporters to stick by them.

And yet when people say exactly the same thing about willian your immediately in their saying they are wrong. Its very amusing how you choose to defend Oscar against the exact same criticism's you make of willian.

And yet when people say exactly the same thing about willian your immediately in their saying they are wrong. Its very amusing how you choose to defend Oscar against the exact same criticism's you make of willian.

So I should defend William by saying he's a young player who has put in a bunch of match winning performances both this year and last year?

You know that's not the case right?

He had almost 3 times the number of direct goal contributions this season.

I don't care what you do, I just find it funny how protective you are of your favourite and how vehemently you argue against anyone who dares be positive about willian.

I don't care what you do, I just find it funny how protective you are of your favourite and how vehemently you argue against anyone who dares be positive about willian.

So Oscar is my favourite? Not any of the other players I praise then?

Not Cesc or Ivanovic or Costa or Courtois?

Great argument there.

Cheers. Though it wasn't an argument, just me being amused.

Personally I think its cute you use Oscar's output to discredit Willian when off the top of my head I know a third of Oscar's goals this seasons came from critical movements of Willian who didn't get a "direct goal contribution" in any of them.  

 

You take away Willian's contributions and you're losing your very argument against Willian because he makes the team better and those other players "direct goal contributions" diminish without Willians efforts,.

With ''noting has changed'' I meant my opinion on him.

I'm not saying he's a bad player and I'm not really one for slating him when he has a bad performance. 

 

I just don't like Oscars style of play, he takes too much time on the ball for my liking and he loses posession far to often. 

A lot of times it's with the simpel passes. He doesn't have the an eye for the killer pass and more often than not he can't find his way out of a tight space. 

 

Have to agree with this.

 

As I've said plenty of times before, when Oscar is good, quite often he is brilliant. But he has far too many average games or worse.

 

I've said I would take the likes of Coutinho, Eriksson and Corzola over him. That is because they often do things which win games. I know Oscar does score and he also has assists but far too often, games seem to just pass him by. What Oscar has over the others is his defensive abilities. We've all seem him track back and make tackles. That is what Jose likes and that is why he gets selected but IMO that part of his game is not enough to warrant regular selection. At the moment he seems to be good at a few things but not outstanding. He can take a great free-kick, he can score goals, he can pick a pass - it's just that he doesn't do any of them enough. 

 

Let's just hope he ups his game for the remainder of the season. When we come to the run-in we'll need everyone to contribute, otherwise I think he'll have to be content with a place on the bench.

Again Cazorla is being talked up. I don't understand it. He's the last person who will be decisive in the game, can't finish to save his life. He takes good penalties and is a good dribbler. I wonder what his statistics are by the way.

Again Cazorla is being talked up. I don't understand it. He's the last person who will be decisive in the game, can't finish to save his life. He takes good penalties and is a good dribbler. I wonder what his statistics are by the way.

He has great vision and comes up with amazing short and incisive passes quite often. Unfortunately, he doesn't have the passing technique to play good long passes and through balls. I remember this amazing pass he made to Sturridge one which he missed. I really doubt if too many players would see that pass.

Again Cazorla is being talked up. I don't understand it. He's the last person who will be decisive in the game, can't finish to save his life. He takes good penalties and is a good dribbler. I wonder what his statistics are by the way.

 

Don't get caught up in statistics. Sure they are handy but they will rarely give you an insight into what has happened in a game.

 

I try and avoid watching Arsenal. But the few times I have watched then this season, at times, Corzola has been outstanding. He wouldn't fit into out team and like Mata, he really isn't a Mourinho player, but he is still a class act.

Just like Willian, I think he is an important part of the team and while he could be improved upon, it would be hard to make happen because of the cost and how rarely those types of players are available. t: Edit:  Also add that just because a "better player" comes in doesnt mean the team will improve.  Sometimes a "worse player" will just make a team tick better and a "better player" will ruin the balance or destroy the chemistry. Thats what its all about, the teams success and not any single players.

 

I also just thought how, 15 years ago, we'd of been dreaming of these players in CFC colours and not complaining  (well, being underwhelmed at least) about them being good enough.  Gotta love that crazy Russian guy who adopted this club  and treated it like it was part of his own family.

Edited February 8, 201511 yr by Barry Bridges

Don't get caught up in statistics. Sure they are handy but they will rarely give you an insight into what has happened in a game.

I try and avoid watching Arsenal. But the few times I have watched then this season, at times, Corzola has been outstanding. He wouldn't fit into out team and like Mata, he really isn't a Mourinho player, but he is still a class act.

As I said, I don't know the statistics and acknowledge that they very often do not tell the whole picture. I therefore will not go into them. From what I have seen of Cazorla, he seems to glide with the ball and is easy on the eye. I also believe that he has no composure in the final 3rd. He is a bit like a more elegant Willian who cannot put in the same defensive shift and doesn't have as much pace. I like his two footedness though!

Personally I think its cute you use Oscar's output to discredit Willian when off the top of my head I know a third of Oscar's goals this seasons came from critical movements of Willian who didn't get a "direct goal contribution" in any of them.

You take away Willian's contributions and you're losing your very argument against Willian because he makes the team better and those other players "direct goal contributions" diminish without Willians efforts,.

You think it's cute? You sure you're focusing on the words I write and not the way I walk?

I defend Oscar because he's still a relatively young player yet he has popped up with key assists,key goals and performances where he's led the team in the absence of others.

I've also said that he probably got his greatest reception in the Arsenal match for a fine defensive performance.

You think it's cute? You sure you're focusing on the words I write and not the way I walk?

I defend Oscar because he's still a relatively young player yet he has popped up with key assists,key goals and performances where he's led the team in the absence of others.

I've also said that he probably got his greatest reception in the Arsenal match for a fine defensive performance.

 

Do you think Oscar and Willian's stats would remain the same if Willian was the one playing no.10 and Oscar out wide? 

Do you think Oscar and Willian's stats would remain the same if Willian was the one playing no.10 and Oscar out wide?

Their attacking stats? I think there would be some change but it's not like Willian doesn't get chances.

It's also not like Oscar couldn't be more consistent and is beyond criticism. I just think that young players need patience and I apply that standard to all young players.

When do players stop being young? What's the threshold?

Can someone who is more knowledgeable about Coutinho give an assessment on his overall game and suggest how he would look if he were playing no.10 for us.

 

I always assumed that Oscar was the better prospect but the more i see of both of them i'm not sure.

 

From the few times i've seen Coutinho there are 3 things that i like.  Firstly he seems more athletic and faster than Oscar.  Secondly he seems to be a better dribbler and will take players on more often.  Thirdly i like his attitude.  He seems feisty and the kind of player you want in your side.

 

I'm not so sure about his passing, technical ability, workrate and defensive side of his game.  If anyone could enlighten me that would be great.

 

Coutinho is the slightly better prospect imho. He's even more inconsistent than Oscar, but when he's on form, he plays at a level that Oscar simply cannot reach at this point. His dribbling ability is on a different level altogether and I would say he's a better passer as well. His finishing lets him down at times but he has pretty good technique. 

 

The defensive side is not quite up there with Oscar but he's definitely not a liability in that regard and there is enough to suggest he can be really good at it. 

Their attacking stats? I think there would be some change but it's not like Willian doesn't get chances.

It's also not like Oscar couldn't be more consistent and is beyond criticism. I just think that young players need patience and I apply that standard to all young players.

 

You're right. Willian does get chances and he's simply not as good a finisher as Oscar. I do think his assist numbers would be higher than Oscar's though.

 

I think that all players need patience unless there is absolutely no scope for improvement. Willian may or may not improve his end product, but if the club were looking at his end product alone, I'm sure we wouldn't have bought him in the first place.

You think it's cute? You sure you're focusing on the words I write and not the way I walk?

I defend Oscar because he's still a relatively young player yet he has popped up with key assists,key goals and performances where he's led the team in the absence of others.

I've also said that he probably got his greatest reception in the Arsenal match for a fine defensive performance.

Ya, cute that you are so desperate to slate Willian that you do so with a player, Oscar, whose had a good share of his goals come as a direct result of Willian's creative work in the final third.

 

If 23 is relatively young then what is 26?  Too old to improve?