See highlighting chances that may or may not have led to something else in a 5-0 victory is just lost on me, especially when more significantly that same player had scored our opening goal.

Maybe we just view football differently but with Oscar, especially in his current form I'm seeing a player that's anything but sloppy and I can forgive the odd stray pass if he's overall contribution is winning us football matches.

If you micro-analysed the performances of all the Chelsea players in that Swansea game I'm sure we could write an essay on their failings but end of the day we won 5-0 and it was as close to a perfect performance as you can get.

Regarding Oscar specifically, as I've already said, in my eyes he's having a superb season and I don't see this same level of analysis being directed at any of our other players and I'm bemused as to what Oscar's done (or not done) to warrant such scrutiny especially at a time that he is significantly contributing to our title challenge.

Fair enough FC. But the day when it's a draw or loss and we see the same thing from him, that's when people call for his head and I find that strange.

Why the focus on him

- because it has been (or should be) more noticeable to those that study the game due to his position and scope of influence on the game. But again, I agree he's had a very good season and is a major contributor to our title challenge.

 

 

 

 

 

But just for a laugh, let me breakdown the problems with your argument:

 

"Sigurdsson is Swansea's main playmaker" "the playmaker tasked with making 'key passes'"

 

Your opinion of his designated role within the team.

 

which is why he has more key passes than Oscar (by 0.9 per match) and more assists.....specifically ONE more assist.

 

An inference based on your assumption - Because Sigurdsson is tasked with making key passes, that is why he has more.

 

Oscar is not the main playmaker for Chelsea.

 

Again, your opinion of his role as designated by Mourinho

 

Cesc Fabregas is, hence the 15 assists and 3.2 key passes per game.

 

Cesc is naturally a more creative and technically gifted player, but again you're confusing what the players are able to do with what you think their roles are. 

 

I could go on but it's quite tedious.

 

 

My opinions are based on watching these players play. Rather than simply going 'that's an opinion' and hoping that someone might absent-mindedly think that invalidates it, how about you actually point out where I'm wrong.

 

But having spoken to you about RLC I get the sense that you don't actually enjoy talking about those silly little matters that actually occur on the pitch, relying instead on stats. 

 

Me, I like stats. I think they add an extra dimension to one's interpretation of a match, a player, a team etc. but they are not the be all and end all. They should supplement one's thinking, support their ideas and also open their eyes to things they were missing....

 

but then I'm not an economist by profession.

Wow. Some deep stats talk here... Glad I didn't go into that.

On gut-feel basis Oscar's been good this season. Start of last season he managed to beat Mata in his own game, Mata was sold. Then he was our main creator and stated to concentrate on WC, he became awful.

This season started and Cesc immediately took the throne from Oscar but at the same time he took the pressure off from him.

Oscar's been able to fly under the radar and just perform. He is no headline-grabber because of his persona and not exacly the most exciting player there is but he is very very gifted.

He fits Jose's team and is central part of our excellent attack. His passing-ability is 2 steps behind Mata and Cesc but these two are exceptional in it. He has a great shot and a brilliant style of shooting freekicks.

Quite honestly I have no idea what this "key pass" statistic is, it seems to be a fairly new stat that gets thrown around but it seems to be a rather objective thing. 

 

Also what is the actual point you are making, are you saying Oscar isn't playing well? That Sanchez is playing exceptionally well? Please elaborate as I don't really know what you're getting at. 

http://www.soccerstatistically.com/blog/2011/11/9/how-to-succeed-in-the-epl-chances-created-and-chance-convers.html

 

Not sure myself but it's a pass which basically starts a attacking move or leads to a shot. But #10 are basically judged by their creativity which is chances created or key passes.

Edited January 19, 201511 yr by CFCBlue12

http://www.soccerstatistically.com/blog/2011/11/9/how-to-succeed-in-the-epl-chances-created-and-chance-convers.html

 

Not sure myself but it's a pass which basically starts a attacking move or leads to a shot. But #10 are basically judged by their creativity which is chances created or key passes.

 

If that is true then surely it means nothing, a 'key pass' could be a 2 yard back pass, or a 50 yd pin point pass.

My opinions are based on watching these players play. Rather than simply going 'that's an opinion' and hoping that someone might absent-mindedly think that invalidates it, how about you actually point out where I'm wrong.

But having spoken to you about RLC I get the sense that you don't actually enjoy talking about those silly little matters that actually occur on the pitch, relying instead on stats.

Me, I like stats. I think they add an extra dimension to one's interpretation of a match, a player, a team etc. but they are not the be all and end all. They should supplement one's thinking, support their ideas and also open their eyes to things they were missing....

but then I'm not an economist by profession.

The fact that you can't comprehend what I wrote and still ask me to point out your mistakes means that any argument is actually futile. And yes I don't enjoy speaking about things irrelevant to the argument.

Stats are indeed useful in supplementing one's thinking but it is useless if that thinking is flawed.

Wow this thread seems to have taken off.

Haven't time to go into all the posts and statistics that have been posted.

I tend to just watch a game and at the end say to myself, he had a good game, or he didn't.

I was very excited about getting Oscar when we did. I think he is a fantastic talent and although

He has had a few dips in form, I think he his one of our better players. He is still very young and

Has some improving to do.

One of my favourite players in a chelsea shirt and I hope he is here for many many years.

http://www.soccerstatistically.com/blog/2011/11/9/how-to-succeed-in-the-epl-chances-created-and-chance-convers.html

Not sure myself but it's a pass which basically starts a attacking move or leads to a shot. But #10 are basically judged by their creativity which is chances created or key passes.

A key pass is a pass which leads to a direct chance on goal. Think of it as an assist without the resulting goal. If there is a goal it just becomes an assist of course.

The fact that you can't comprehend what I wrote and still ask me to point out your mistakes means that any argument is actually futile. 

 

So more evasion.

 

And yes I don't enjoy speaking about things irrelevant to the argument.

 

In a discussion about Ruben Loftus-Cheek, you didn't want to discuss RUBIN LOFTUS-CHEEK. I mean it's hilarious, but come on.

 

I get that you probably think you're correct and stats are you're thing so being wrong my really cause some deep-thinking on your part about what you've been doing with your life, but there's nothing wrong with being wrong. There's nothing wrong with admitting someone else might have a point about something, that's just part of life and the underlying principle of discussions. 

 

I'm quite prepared to be told I'm wrong and admit it, but you really aren't saying anything worthwhile. Sorry if that sounds harsh but I can't be the only one who thinks that. 

 

In a discussion about Ruben Loftus-Cheek, you didn't want to discuss RUBIN LOFTUS-CHEEK. I mean it's hilarious, but come on.

 

 

 

You mean the discussion in the PAUL POGBA thread about why we shouldn't forgo signing him because we have youngsters like RLC? My argument was related to the that, and to the problem with trying to rely on youth potential to sustain a title challenge. The finer aspects of RLC as a player were not relevant to that. But I also would like to apologise for some earlier snide comments. It's been a rough day for me.

You mean the discussion in the PAUL POGBA thread about why we shouldn't forgo signing him because we have youngsters like RLC? My argument was related to the that, and to the problem with trying to rely on youth potential to sustain a title challenge. The finer aspects of RLC as a player were not relevant to that. But I also would like to apologise for some earlier snide comments. It's been a rough day for me.

 

No worries mate. Hope everything's ok now 

Stats can add to a discussion but rarely can be used as a definitive proof of anything, especially the "key pass" and "assist stat". For instance, last season Ozil came out of a game with 2 assists, both of which were basic sideways passes under no pressure which Ramsey then spanked into the top corner from 25 yards. Absolutely in no way an assist. 

I'm surprised that no-one has mentioned that Oscar's forward passing stats are skewed due to his willingness to track back and help defensively so of course he is further behind the play thus his forward passes are not neccessarily played in the final third as compared to some of the other no.10's who we use as a benchmark to compate him to. But this takes nothing away I think his instinct to help the team outweighs whatever he may lack in attacking from time to time. He's in amongst the goals at the minute so no reason to complain unless it really becomes an issue.

Ridiculous that Oscar's physicality is deemed as weaker than Juan mata's by FIFA!

Be as objective as you can: Which AM from the league would you take over Oscar if you could?

Stats can add to a discussion but rarely can be used as a definitive proof of anything

 

Well of course not. A statistic without context and proper analysis is nothing more than a piece of data obtained by collecting then organising a large amount of data. Counting events in a game of football (which alone is nonsense, you need at least hundreds of games to draw conclusions) is not statistics, they barely mean more than the colour of the kits or the dirtiness of the players' socks in an argument.

 

If anyone is interested in a real statistical break down of football I'd suggest reading this brilliant book:

The Numbers Game: Why Everything You Know About Football is Wrong

Edited January 19, 201511 yr by undertow

Be as objective as you can: Which AM from the league would you take over Oscar if you could?

Honest answer is none but if I have to pick someone then probably Silva.

Ridiculous that Oscar's physicality is deemed as weaker than Juan mata's by FIFA!

 

EA what do you expect.

Be as objective as you can: Which AM from the league would you take over Oscar if you could?

David Silva.

EA what do you expect.

Very true, ridiculous game at times.

Honest answer is none but if I have to pick someone then probably Silva.

Yes. I agree. Silva is the one player that pops to mind.

Oscar will be better than David Silva, just give him a time to grow up.

Oscar is a different player from Silva in my opinion. Silva is fantastic on the ball but he simply doesn't have the workrate Oscar does without it.

 

Didn't realise that Silva had just turned 29 either. Not sure who else Oscar's age is close to him except possibly Gotze and Isco. Neither of these is really a 10 in the traditional (Kaka, Rivaldo etc.) sense either, are they? Think maybe we're seeing the demise of these types of players in favour of more tactically responsible players.

Silva is a fantastic player but I don't think he would fit José's system well just as Mata didn't. So while individually he might be (is) a better player than Oscar at this point of time he wouldn't necessarily be a better option for our team.