Last season it was clear we didn't have the player to play 4-3-3, I had no problem with us opting to switch to a more Catenaccio style of play if it meant winning but now we have a different type of player altogether.

 

With the exception of Mata (and possibly Luiz) I'm yet to see one player this formation gets the best out of, individual performances have dipped but I have no doubt that a different formation against certain teams would improve us significantly. I don't see why we need to play two holding midfielders at home to Brentford or lesser opposition.

 

I'm in no way defending Torres (I want him gone as much as the next guy) but it seems obvious after just a few games the system doesn't get the best out of Ba either. We either need new strikers or a new system. Torres of old would have been fine in this system, Torres of new is a goal poacher (just a very bad one), as is Ba only he is good, these are not players that can lead the line in the same way Drogba could or even Crespo.

 

With Oscar/Lampard (too similar to play together IMO) either way here is my ideal formation

 

I think 4-2-3-1 allows more flexibility of movement with the advance 3 in midfield allowing them to chop and change more, pulling defenders inside or out depending on movement.

 

4-3-3 I think is generally more rigid and wide players in the attacking positions generally have to stick to the flanks more.

 

Mata's game would most likely suffer if "forced" to play the majority of his game on the wing rather than being central. 

 

I'm not against 4-3-3 by any means, it was obviously our most "successful" formation in recent years.

A Christmas tree formation, while not ideal, would feature our best players (no Lampard for the sake of fitting Mazacar in the team) in their favoured positions:

 

---------------------------------Cech

Azpilicueta-------Ivanovic----------Terry----------Cole

---------------Ramires--------Mikel--------Oscar

-------------------------Mata--------Hazard

----------------------------------Ba

Unfortunately, because have of the imbalance in our squad, we can only play 4231. This seems to negate Ramires' best assets almost totally whilst also forcing Oscar into a wider role which doesn't fit him either. Most importantly, we don't have any CM's who truly fit this the 'double pivot' - All our CM's seem either suited to the attacking or defensive roles of a 433, but we don't have enough numbers to play 3 in midfield. Also we don't have the natural widemen needed for a 433 either.

 

So where do we go from here? Well for the 4-2-3-1 to work:

 

What we need to acquire in the summer is a CM who combines the defensive, energetic qualities of an Essien/Makelele with the passing ability of an Alonso/Fabregas etc. Schweinsteiger is one of few that comes to mind as these are players which are very hard to find. Having that player would allow us to play a more fluid and combative version of our current system and therefore make it more effective. Putting said player alongside Ramires, Lampard would help us to score goals, or he could play alongside Mikel if the game needed to be shut down. Perhaps KDB or Chalobah could develop into this? Who knows.

 

The days of 433 are over I think.  433 is too rigid and incongruent with the attributes of our creative players for RA to see football played how he wants. This is a shame for me given how much success it gave us as a formation. With the type of midfielder I've outlined above, aswell as a winger/striker type of player (Andre Schurrle eg.) we'd be able to shift back to the 433.

In the last couple of years, Juan Mata has been the best no. 10 in the world.

 

To not use our best player in his best position just doesn't make sense. 

 

The formation we are using is the same one we were using when we were ripping teams up at the start of the season. The only difference is a certain obese Spanish man, that has no tactical knowledge whatsoever. It's a cycle:-

 

Interim = Rubbish atmosphere

Rubbish atmosphere = Unmotivated players

Unmotivated players = Rubbish performances

Rubbish Performances = Interim

 

And Repeat.

 

Nothing wrong with the formation. Most of the best teams are using 4-2-3-1.

Didn't we play 4-2-3-1 under Hiddink?  

Isn't it about time we got rid of Rafa? 

http://plainsofalmeria.co.uk/2013/02/18/midfield-matters/

 

Great article on the imbalance of our midfield, echoing some of my concerns about how our CM's don't fit the pivot very well. A natural fit in there would help the likes of Ramires to adjust.

Isn't it about time we got rid of Rafa? 

 

No. It's way overdue.

I think the formation we play is mostly ok,maybe at times we move into the centre to predictably at times.

 

Perhaps encouraging the trio of Oscar,Mata & Hazard to use the wide areas of the pitch more often, might be a good idea. 

 

But the main problem is the at the 'tip' of the attack in my opinion.

 

We have some of the most creative midfielders in the world,what we need is a striker to match.

 

Torres is a 'bottleneck',he holds up our creative midfield.Match a striker to our midfield players and watch this team go.

 

Plus of course,a proper manager,someone who really belives in this club & it's players.

I actually would like to see us go back to basics and play a 4-4-2. Hazard and moses as wide mids/wingers. Lampard and oscar/Luiz as centre mids.  Mata and Ba/Torres up front. Simple. Sort of like Man united, counter-attacking short passing play.

 

                                       

Edited February 18, 201313 yr by Erik

Watching the first half yesterday our play before it gets to the AMs is to slow, once  Terry, cole, and lamps start with their pretty little triangles the  5,4 Brentford employed, negated our efforts, until they got tired we couldn't get through them or around them, i'd like to see us develop without using Fullbacks as wingers 4 defend 1 holding m'f who can speed up the passing, 3 attacking  a proper no10 Oscar/Mata and a Striker, 2 Dms is set up to be more defensive,sooooo

 

.............................................................CECH

 

........AZPI........................CAHILL.........................TERRY...................COLE

 

.....................................................Luiz

 

........................MOSES.....................OSCAR................HAZARD

 

....................................MATA

 

..................................................BA??

 

 

    This is on the proviso Lamps goes, all though to make us a faster paced playing team, lamps would unfortunately struggle to make the XI, how wrong is that??

Edited February 18, 201313 yr by Ballack & Blu

I actually would like to see us go back to basics and play a 4-4-2. Hazard and moses as wide mids/wingers. Lampard and oscar/Luiz as centre mids.  Mata and Ba/Torres up front. Simple. Sort of like Man united, counter-attacking short passing play.

 

                                       

 

That could work well, out of the options suggested on this page I think this is the best one.

 

That being said we were doing very well in a 4-2-3-1 for the first few months of the season with the exact same players (and without any strikers), so with the right management it's proven to work,

How about this one if we're gonna be creative with our formations.

 

 

Mata would obviously play behind Ba in the number 10 role.

 

So it's basically 3-1-4-1-1.

No Ashley Cole?!

No Ashley Cole?!

 

Originally I was gonna go with Wing Backs so Cole on the left and Azpi on the right but then that meant sacrificing the attacking threat that Hazard offers on the wing.

 

So I just decided to have it as all aggressive attacking formation, probably okay for home games against team who are likely to park the bus maybe not to defensively sound for away days. 

Exactly, no way in hell could we play with Moses and Hazard as wingbacks against decent opposition. As for the original poster we never played a Cantenaccio style last year. Cantenaccio is a very specific defensive system where there are two centre backs and a sweeper or libero, something we never did.

Edited February 19, 201313 yr by Teritus

Exactly, no way in hell could we play with Moses and Hazard as wingbacks against decent opposition. As for the original poster we never played a Cantenaccio style last year. Cantenaccio is a very specific defensive system where there are two centre backs and a sweeper or libero, something we never did.

 

Didn't we try a catenaccio style formation against Juventus? I'm not to sure if we were trying a false nine formation or a catenacio.

Didn't we try a catenaccio style formation against Juventus? I'm not to sure if we were trying a false nine formation or a catenacio.

 

It was a false nine, with Azpilicueta in midfield and Hazard as the false 9.

I actually would like to see us go back to basics and play a 4-4-2. Hazard and moses as wide mids/wingers. Lampard and oscar/Luiz as centre mids.  Mata and Ba/Torres up front. Simple. Sort of like Man united, counter-attacking short passing play.

 

                                       

 

442 simply doesn't work in modern football any more. Its too exploitable for teams to play against who deploy a 433/4231 etc because there's no depth in the positions of the players. It's just 2 lines of players which the likes of Iniesta/Silva/Mata who float between the lines can tear apart at will.

 

Nowadays I think you have to play with one designated DM, or at least one more defensive player in the double pivot. Much of the reason why we've shipped so many goals in recent months is because we've lacked a midfielder with defensive attributes. Hopefully the return of Mikel can help in that regard.

442 simply doesn't work in modern football any more. Its too exploitable for teams to play against who deploy a 433/4231 etc because there's no depth in the positions of the players. It's just 2 lines of players which the likes of Iniesta/Silva/Mata who float between the lines can tear apart at will.

 

Nowadays I think you have to play with one designated DM, or at least one more defensive player in the double pivot. Much of the reason why we've shipped so many goals in recent months is because we've lacked a midfielder with defensive attributes. Hopefully the return of Mikel can help in that regard.

 

 

It doesn't have to be 2 lines of players. We can play fluid and the 4-4-2 mid game can easily revert into a 4-2-3-1 and will probably act like a 4-2-3-1 in game. Mata just tucks in behind the striker, Luiz drops back a little  and Moses and Hazard drive up the wing.

Edited February 19, 201313 yr by Erik

Bring back 2-3-5 that's what I say, too much Championship Manager speak these days.  2-3-5 was good enough for Subbuteo when I was a kid.

Edited February 19, 201313 yr by Peckham Blue

Much of the reason why we've shipped so many goals in recent months is because we've lacked a midfielder with defensive attributes. Hopefully the return of Mikel can help in that regard.

brilliant

brilliant

 

Certainly more useful than Ramires or Lampard in a purely defensive sense no?

How about this one if we're gonna be creative with our formations.

 

 

Mata would obviously play behind Ba in the number 10 role.

 

So it's basically 3-1-4-1-1.

I  like 3 at the back, 2 wing backs 3 mids 1 and 1up top, fast attacking, just need right personnel to do the Job..