I've criticised him too.

He needs a better defence in front of him and a leader at the back.

I dont think selling him is the answer. I think maybe give Begovic a little run in goal to show Tibo he will be dropped if he makes errors repeatedly. Pellegrino did it with Hart and he came back better than before. Maybe it's what is needed here. He's got obvious talent so to sell him at this stage of his career when he could easily be the world number one for 15 years would be incredibly short-sighted. 

I dont think selling him is the answer. I think maybe give Begovic a little run in goal to show Tibo he will be dropped if he makes errors repeatedly. Pellegrino did it with Hart and he came back better than before. Maybe it's what is needed here. He's got obvious talent so to sell him at this stage of his career when he could easily be the world number one for 15 years would be incredibly short-sighted.

He would be crying and his father would influence him again. He would probably come up with another bullsh*t ultimatum like he did last season - he didn't want to compete with Petr for the spot on the team - to me that's a sh*tty attitude.

If He doesn't want to compete for the spot then he should fu*k off and never come back!

We need fighters with huge hearts!

It's some peoples solution to everything. Just sell and buy a replacement

Yeah, selling is the solution when your goalkeeper doesn't want competition but automatically wants to be the first choice yet he is giving average performances to show he doesn't worths being first choice.

I've criticised him too.

He needs a better defence in front of him and a leader at the back.

If he needs a better defence to show is quality then he obviously isn't top class and selling Cech was a big mistake.

I dont think selling him is the answer. I think maybe give Begovic a little run in goal to show Tibo he will be dropped if he makes errors repeatedly. Pellegrino did it with Hart and he came back better than before. Maybe it's what is needed here. He's got obvious talent so to sell him at this stage of his career when he could easily be the world number one for 15 years would be incredibly short-sighted.

Tibo won't accept it so no way Begovic can get a run except Tibo is injured.

I think is not that easy find a better goalkeeper than him, he's still young and with a lot of experience already. 

He would be crying and his father would influence him again. He would probably come up with another bullsh*t ultimatum like he did last season - he didn't want to compete with Petr for the spot on the team - to me that's a sh*tty attitude.

If He doesn't want to compete for the spot then he should fu*k off and never come back!

We need fighters with huge hearts!

The hate for our players from our own fans is just bizarre.

I dont think anyone is scapegoating him but everyone seems to agree hes been underwhelming. It could be down to our sh*t defense too.

For the right price hes expendable IMO. Actually almost anyone at the club is at this point. For the right price

 

He's had an average season with some great moments, but also some poor ones. That's inconsistency and it's what you get from young players. The thing you have to remember is that Courtois has shown so much in his young career that there's a chance he could become the best in the world in his position.

 

There's not many players at this club you can say that about. Discussions about selling him are extremely odd in my opinion if we are a club with a shred of ambition left.

If he needs a better defence to show is quality then he obviously isn't top class and selling Cech was a big mistake.

 

Nonsense.

Have you ever played football and been in goal and had players running and shooting at you for the full 90 minutes, its hard and your confidence drops.

schmeichel, kahn,cech, seaman, casillas all had the luxury of having world class defences in front of them.

A poor defence and a world class goalkeeper will not work.

Nonsense.

Have you ever played football and been in goal and had players running and shooting at you for the full 90 minutes, its hard and your confidence drops.

schmeichel, kahn,cech, seaman, casillas all had the luxury of having world class defences in front of them.

A poor defence and a world class goalkeeper will not work.

I agree with you, Courtois should not be sold, he's an incredible goalkeeper and does need a much better defence, no keeper in the world can stop every point blank shot.

But just to play devil's advocate, united's defence over the last few years has been shambolic, but De Gea has shined as an outstanding talent. I do think Tibo is second in the league behind De Gea in terms of top keepers, but I put De Gea on par with Neuer and Buffon as the best keepers in the world

For those comparing him to De Gea, it's easy to forget he had some dodgy moments in his first three seasons at United (he's now in his FIFTH season at the club, Courtois is still in his SECOND).

 

So here's the redcafe thread that is long but gives him early praise, has some notes of disquiet as he makes mistakes but also has people saying that with patience he'll come good

 

http://www.redcafe.net/threads/david-de-gea-2011-14-performances.334187/

 

Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V to your heart's content.

Edited March 16, 201610 yr by ShedEnder91

I believe a majority of posters on here (Including myself) don't want to sell Courtois and want him to be our first choice for the foreseeable future as he clearly has the ability to be amongst the worlds best.

 

However having said that their needs to be some level of healthy competition for him-If he is performing below average than we should be looking to bring in Begovic until Courtois can regain his confidence and iron out any issues on the training pitch.

 

Just seems like double standards that Baba makes an error against Southampton and has been dropped for a Attacking Mid whereas a few of the others seem to be getting a free ride.

Buffon?

 

 

 

 

(Mmmmmmmmmm)

 

 

 

 

 

If it's allowed, gentlemen!

 

 

I believe a majority of posters on here (Including myself) don't want to sell Courtois and want him to be our first choice for the foreseeable future as he clearly has the ability to be amongst the worlds best.

 

However having said that their needs to be some level of healthy competition for him-If he is performing below average than we should be looking to bring in Begovic until Courtois can regain his confidence and iron out any issues on the training pitch.

 

Just seems like double standards that Baba makes an error against Southampton and has been dropped for a Attacking Mid whereas a few of the others seem to be getting a free ride.

 

Courtois is given leeway because he's been excellent for us in the past and because we've had to make so many changes to the defence in front of him. He's a cornerstone of the team and will be (hopefully) for years to come.

 

Rahman has none of that at the moment. He's been unfortunate not to get more minutes, but he's not got some amazing track record to lean on either. Also, Kenedy has outplayed him in that position in my opinion thus far.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QC-LxVzFaMw

 

 

Nonsense.

Have you ever played football and been in goal and had players running and shooting at you for the full 90 minutes, its hard and your confidence drops.

schmeichel, kahn,cech, seaman, casillas all had the luxury of having world class defences in front of them.

A poor defence and a world class goalkeeper will not work.

Take a break and watch De gea

I don't want Courtois sold, I just want competition for him so he can improve. But the fact that he wants to be the automatic choice has made him feel relax.

Is De Gea, 'the solution', Wallosh?

It's very, very rare for a club to have a second goalie good enough to challenge for number 1. 

Courtois is given leeway because he's been excellent for us in the past and because we've had to make so many changes to the defence in front of him. He's a cornerstone of the team and will be (hopefully) for years to come.

 

Rahman has none of that at the moment. He's been unfortunate not to get more minutes, but he's not got some amazing track record to lean on either. Also, Kenedy has outplayed him in that position in my opinion thus far.

 

I am sorry mate with that sort of mentality you are never going to build a successful long-term team. Their just has to be healthy competition in a squad and the approach which you are proposing has a double negative.

 

Firstly a 1st choice player has to have the motivation that if they are not up to the mark their is a replacement who will be able to provide sufficient cover-If they are of the understanding that they will be playing regardless of performance this leads to a sense of security and drop in performance levels, nothing to do with the individual but just standard human psychology. Also if for whatever reason were Courtois to get injured and Begovic was to come in, the guy basically knows that regardless of his performance when Courtois is fit he will walk back into the team hence impacting his performance.

 

If we were to have the same mentality for all our starting 11 than we will never generate a squad strong enough to challenge because no good player wants to sit on the bench with no chance of breaking into the team. We will basically have a strong starting 11 and the rest just there to make up numbers.

 

Don't believe Kenedy has outplayed Baba as a LB, he may have done well going forward but unfortunately a Left Backs job is much more about defending than it is attacking and in that regard I don't believe he has outplayed Baba in any way shape or form.

I am sorry mate with that sort of mentality you are never going to build a successful long-term team. Their just has to be healthy competition in a squad and the approach which you are proposing has a double negative.

 

Firstly a 1st choice player has to have the motivation that if they are not up to the mark their is a replacement who will be able to provide sufficient cover-If they are of the understanding that they will be playing regardless of performance this leads to a sense of security and drop in performance levels, nothing to do with the individual but just standard human psychology. Also if for whatever reason were Courtois to get injured and Begovic was to come in, the guy basically knows that regardless of his performance when Courtois is fit he will walk back into the team hence impacting his performance.

 

 

You're more than entitled to your opinion and I accept that we need competition, but I also think you have to recognise that when there is so much upheaval in the defence you need to maintain consistency where you can. I also think that Courtois has made some outstanding saves that have kept us in games recently, but keepers do tend to be judged by their perceived mistakes so I do understand how this thread has arrived at this point.

 

 

 

If we were to have the same mentality for all our starting 11 than we will never generate a squad strong enough to challenge because no good player wants to sit on the bench with no chance of breaking into the team. We will basically have a strong starting 11 and the rest just there to make up numbers.

 

 

Again, our starting 11 is already missing it's two best defenders, has it's best left-back at right-back, has it's right-back at centre-back, has a pourous midfield, is missing it's best player of last season and has it's main striker suspended for three games. At this point in time I think keeping our goalkeeping position consistent is the least we can do.

 

 

Don't believe Kenedy has outplayed Baba as a LB, he may have done well going forward but unfortunately a Left Backs job is much more about defending than it is attacking and in that regard I don't believe he has outplayed Baba in any way shape or form.

 

Again you're entitled to your opinion but I'm not sure what you're basing it on, except the PSG game maybe. Rahman is supposed to be a left-back by trade but I've been really underwhelmed in what I've seen of him. But my view is perhaps coloured by the fact that I think he's got a chance of looking like a really poor buy in 12 months time. Hopefully I'm wrong but at the moment he's done nothing.

You're more than entitled to your opinion and I accept that we need competition, but I also think you have to recognise that when there is so much upheaval in the defence you need to maintain consistency where you can. I also think that Courtois has made some outstanding saves that have kept us in games recently, but keepers do tend to be judged by their perceived mistakes so I do understand how this thread has arrived at this point.

 

 

Again, our starting 11 is already missing it's two best defenders, has it's best left-back at right-back, has it's right-back at centre-back, has a pourous midfield, is missing it's best player of last season and has it's main striker suspended for three games. At this point in time I think keeping our goalkeeping position consistent is the least we can do.

 

 

Again you're entitled to your opinion but I'm not sure what you're basing it on, except the PSG game maybe. Rahman is supposed to be a left-back by trade but I've been really underwhelmed in what I've seen of him. But my view is perhaps coloured by the fact that I think he's got a chance of looking like a really poor buy in 12 months time. Hopefully I'm wrong but at the moment he's done nothing.

 

I guess we will both have to agree to disagree on these points

 

You mentioned that you didnt understand what I am basing my argument on in reference to Baba-All I was trying to say is both Kenedy & Baba have been below par defensively countering your point that Kenedy has outperformed Baba at LB which I believe is untrue.

 

I just think we are showing double standards as a club where we drop Baba for an error and others get away with similar discrepancies-If we had Ashley Cole in the wings and he came in at the back of that error than it was understandable but bringing in a young attacking mid who most likely will play most of his career as an attacker is just unfair.

The hate for our players from our own fans is just bizarre.

We don't hate anyone we just expect certain players to do better job that's all.

i can remember not that long ago when de gea had his doubters