Sure, Jose has to reap what he does...but being a nice guy shouldn't blind people/make excuses/forgive poor results/record either

Sure, Jose has to reap what he does...but being a nice guy shouldn't blind people/make excuses/forgive poor results/record either

 

Yeah, but I don't think it has. Have seen Guus get plenty of criticism but it won't be to the same extent as Jose and that's totally understandable.

 

Just say Jose had never come to Chelsea but instead he went to one of our rivals - Utd, Liverpool...whoever. All the success etc we had under Jose, he did with them instead. We would have detested the bloke. Admired him yes, but still detested him and then when it all went so wrong like it did this season we would be absolutely doing our bollocks and taking the piss and enjoying the moment. As you say, he reaps what he sows...............

Fans are always going to do that (mock and abuse former successful managers) but this to me is about outside the fans of other clubs.

Guus came in and done the bare minimum while achieving nothing of note. We were not in the bottom 3/4 when he came in, we were still in with a chance of finishing in a Europa place given the squad we had and the amount of games left.

We were outclassed in both cup competition we were still involved in against teams that were not exactly the better ones in said competitions. His away form was good but his home form made that little to boast about.

I found us predictable and boring to watch under Guus this time round. He didn't really change anything in terms of team selection and it felt more like he was just there so we had someone on the touchline more than anything else.

He is a nice bloke but that shouldn't give anyone a pass if they have done a below par job which is what Guus done in my eyes. He still had a squad of capable players and didn't do anything with them. As a manager he was finished a long time before he came here sadly and a few of said as such at the time.

I get why Roman brought him back, it was a safe appointment and it worked last time. Hopefully again Roman has learned his lesson.

Edited May 17, 201610 yr by Chelsbear

I think it's easy to look back and say we should have kept Jose because we would've finished around the same place as we have anyway.

We were only a point above the relegation places, and didn't look for a second that we could go 14 games unbeaten.

Would Costa's form been the same in that period had Jose stayed? Their relationship was looking pretty rocky after that bib incident.

I actually believe we could've gone down this year, which is why I think gus has done a good job on the whole.

Yes we could've made the champions league places, but it would've required gus to turn the 5th worse team in the league, into the best team in the league, and we have to average more points in the second of of this season, than we did last season when we were champions.

There are only 2 disappoints from gus for me, the 1st being the FA Cup loss to Everton, although it was a tough fixture off the back of the champions league fixture. I was also disappointed we didn't see more of the youth players in these last few weeks, I don't thinkwe should have constantly fielded a youth team, but there were a few occasions when rlc, Miazga, baba, Kenedy, and traore should have been given starts.

Overall I think gus did a good job on the whole, bringing in Zola, Clarke, clement, etc would've been too big of a gamble, and none of the ex chelsea boys mentioned have been successful managers yet, so I think it was right to go with someone with a higher pedigree.

Glad to see the back of season, wish gus all the best, and hopefully we can start to rebuild under Conte, who has a massive task ahead of him.

I think it's easy to look back and say we should have kept Jose because we would've finished around the same place as we have anyway.

We were only a point above the relegation places, and didn't look for a second that we could go 14 games unbeaten.

Would Costa's form been the same in that period had Jose stayed? Their relationship was looking pretty rocky after that bib incident.

I actually believe we could've gone down this year, which is why I think gus has done a good job on the whole.

Yes we could've made the champions league places, but it would've required gus to turn the 5th worse team in the league, into the best team in the league, and we have to average more points in the second of of this season, than we did last season when we were champions.

There are only 2 disappoints from gus for me, the 1st being the FA Cup loss to Everton, although it was a tough fixture off the back of the champions league fixture. I was also disappointed we didn't see more of the youth players in these last few weeks, I don't thinkwe should have constantly fielded a youth team, but there were a few occasions when rlc, Miazga, baba, Kenedy, and traore should have been given starts.

Overall I think gus did a good job on the whole, bringing in Zola, Clarke, clement, etc would've been too big of a gamble, and none of the ex chelsea boys mentioned have been successful managers yet, so I think it was right to go with someone with a higher pedigree.

Glad to see the back of season, wish gus all the best, and hopefully we can start to rebuild under Conte, who has a massive task ahead of him.

Perfect assessment. I can't see how anyone can disagree with this.

I think it's easy to look back and say we should have kept Jose because we would've finished around the same place as we have anyway.

We were only a point above the relegation places, and didn't look for a second that we could go 14 games unbeaten.

 

 

I doubt we'd have gone down. No one was finishing below Villa this year and I'm sure Jose, the guy who invented parking the bus, could have have kept us above Norwich and Newcastle by playing not to lose (like Hiddink did) and drawing loads and loads of games (like Hiddink did). But then he couldn't have got away with that as he needed wins to save his job, unlike Hiddink whose job was safer than any manager hired by Roman.

 

The main thing that grates is all the upheaval of sacking Jose and replacing him with Hiddink didn't really accomplish anything. We were in mid-table when Hiddink arrived and we were in mid-table when he left. You can't even say he's blooded loads of youngsters. Just about the only positive you can make out of it is Hiddink kept us up, which I suspect would have been the case under Jose regardless.

 

Just a little more food for thought. Southampton were only 6 points ahead of us in 12th when Jose was sacked. They've ended up 5th/6th and 13 points ahead of us, and just three points behind Man City. If only they'd showed as much foresight as us and sacked Koeman, just think where they'd be now.

In reply to Konakai blue...

Well some of us clearly do disagree with it..and still do...I haven't even made my points re. Guus as a protest Jose should have stayed...I've just said he did a crap job...

For Those that are so willing to give him a free (bus?) pass and are content he just kept the club up as season was a write off..on Lge form alone, when chelsea beat Southampton in February, just four points separated the clubs...by the end, the gap was 13, Southampton finished fifth and qualified for Europe with a squad most will still see as inferior to ours despite our woeful start to the season...

Now, if Guus had allowed Southampton to race off into the distance because he was thinking of the bigger picture and picking Chelsea's kids week in and week out, it'd be understandable and few would have a problem...but he picked same players, same formation, no experimentation, no inspiration...a wasted opportunity

Edited May 17, 201610 yr by The Brit

We were in mid-table when Hiddink arrived and we were in mid-table when he left.

16th place a point above relegation is mid table?

Everything points to Roman really not wanting to sack Jose. Roman sacks managers so readily without giving them as many chances as he gave Jose. I think the breaking point was losing to Bournemouth. When you've poured that much money into a club and don't have relegation clauses for any of your players, it would be non-human to not have sleepless nights and heartburn from the anxiety.

When Roman made the decision, which he seemingly did reluctantly, our options were very limited. Who else could we have gotten on an interim basis on such short notice?

Edited May 17, 201610 yr by offside

I doubt we'd have gone down. No one was finishing below Villa this year and I'm sure Jose, the guy who invented parking the bus, could have have kept us above Norwich and Newcastle by playing not to lose (like Hiddink did) and drawing loads and loads of games (like Hiddink did). But then he couldn't have got away with that as he needed wins to save his job, unlike Hiddink whose job was safer than any manager hired by Roman.

 

The main thing that grates is all the upheaval of sacking Jose and replacing him with Hiddink didn't really accomplish anything. We were in mid-table when Hiddink arrived and we were in mid-table when he left. You can't even say he's blooded loads of youngsters. Just about the only positive you can make out of it is Hiddink kept us up, which I suspect would have been the case under Jose regardless.

 

Just a little more food for thought. Southampton were only 6 points ahead of us in 12th when Jose was sacked. They've ended up 5th/6th and 13 points ahead of us, and just three points behind Man City. If only they'd showed as much foresight as us and sacked Koeman, just think where they'd be now.

 

Are you sure? How do you envisage things to get better when nearly halfway into a season Costa has thrown a bib at Jose and Jose publicy saying the players betrayed him?

 

Keep him right?

 

Or better still, I remember alot of fans saying sell those who are against him. Well there were at least 8 players not playing for Jose meaning he would have to field nearly a full squad of youth/reserve players who perhaps wouldn't get us out of this mess.

 

We were in the bottom half when Gus came and are now in the top half so something has changed.

 

Your food for thought is hilarious. Most of the pro Jose guys on this thread were defending his failure this season due to the board weakening the squad beacuse of our low net spend. Well by the same token this must apply to Southampton, the only club in the PL to have a negative net spend this season.

 

How they would kill to have a budget like ours and not have their manager and best players poached every season. Didn't see Koeman or his players moaning though. They just stuck together, played with positivity and watched everything come together.

 

Great comparison that...........

16th place a point above relegation is mid table?

Everything points to Roman really not wanting to sack Jose. Roman sacks managers so readily without giving them as many chances as he gave Jose. I think the breaking point was losing to Bournemouth. When you've poured that much money into a club and don't have relegation clauses for any of your players, it would be non-human to not have sleepless nights and heartburn from the anxiety.

When Roman made the decision, which he seemingly did reluctantly, our options were very limited. Who else could we have gotten on an interim basis on such short notice?

 

 

The board don't get credit for this either. Tried to change ways from the norm of hastily sacking a manager but knew the fans would be on their case for not giving Jose a chance. Well Jose got more than enough time to turn it around and it just got worse. I was surprised he lasted so long and more surprised that he couldn't turn it around. There was no light at the end of the tunnel.

Are you sure? How do you envisage things to get better when nearly halfway into a season Costa has thrown a bib at Jose and Jose publicy saying the players betrayed him?

 

Keep him right?

 

Or better still, I remember alot of fans saying sell those who are against him. Well there were at least 8 players not playing for Jose meaning he would have to field nearly a full squad of youth/reserve players who perhaps wouldn't get us out of this mess.

 

We were in the bottom half when Gus came and are now in the top half so something has changed.

 

Your food for thought is hilarious. Most of the pro Jose guys on this thread were defending his failure this season due to the board weakening the squad beacuse of our low net spend. Well by the same token this must apply to Southampton, the only club in the PL to have a negative net spend this season.

 

How they would kill to have a budget like ours and not have their manager and best players poached every season. Didn't see Koeman or his players moaning though. They just stuck together, played with positivity and watched everything come together.

 

Great comparison that...........

 

So Southampton with their meagre resources can up follow a mediocre first half of the season with a much better second half and almost qualify for the CL, but we couldn't? Right.

edit. 

 

don't want to get involved in the same arguments. no-one will change their mind on this.

Edited May 17, 201610 yr by g3.7

So Southampton with their meagre resources can up follow a mediocre first half of the season with a much better second half and almost qualify for the CL, but we couldn't? Right.

 

So Southampton with their meagre resources  can have a mediocre first half of the season and sit above a Chelsea title winning side with enermous resources who have the so called best manager in the world?

 

Something had to be done.

So Southampton with their meagre resources  can have a mediocre first half of the season and sit above a Chelsea title winning side with enermous resources who have the so called best manager in the world?

 

Something had to be done.

 

Southampton with their meagre resources managed to eclipse the supposedly much better Hiddink-managed Chelsea in the second half of the season as well.

 

Yes something had to done. I just don't think that something was to sack the most successful manager we've ever had six months after he won the league and weeks after he received the public support of the board. We should have just written the season off (and basically that's what we did anyway by appointing Hiddink). It would have had the added benefit of sending out a message that a manager can actually expect some support here and won't be sacked after the first blip. Conte will be looking over his shoulder after the first bad result.

Southampton with their meagre resources managed to eclipse the supposedly much better Hiddink-managed Chelsea in the second half of the season as well.

 

Yes something had to done. I just don't think that something was to sack the most successful manager we've ever had six months after he won the league and weeks after he received the public support of the board. We should have just written the season off (and basically that's what we did anyway by appointing Hiddink). It would have had the added benefit of sending out a message that a manager can actually expect some support here and won't be sacked after the first blip. Conte will be looking over his shoulder after the first bad result.

 

Hiddink hasn't done much better, no one has said that. What he has done, is lifted the toxic atmosphere at the club, kept us out of the papers for all the wrong reasons and got us out of a relegation scrap (we were in one at the time whether you believe it or not) and got us a top half finish. Although most of his unbeaten run were draws, at the end of the day they were not defeats. All while not having Hazard for most of that time due to injury.

 

I don't think you quite understand the situation we were in. Jose said the players betrayed him. Once he announced that, there literally was no way both him and the squad could carry on together. As I said, most pro Jose fans wanted nearly every single squad member sacked and that is impossible.

 

If he was having just a blip where there were signs that the problem could be solved then fine, but it was far from that. Emanalo wasn't lying when he said "palpable discord" existed between the manager and players.  It was game over.

 

Again, Jose wasn't sacked at the first blip. He lasted 16 games (a pretty long time) and our bad run started from game 1 to game 16. Even after a handful of games he was given a vote of confidence and the board stuck by their word. He was given time to turn it around and it was far from happening.

 

How would Jose cope next season without the ability to lure players craving CL (as so many are worried about now) and instead being handed b grade players?  Nevermind the possibility of him selling Hazard.

 

He is our best ever manager but this season, a combination of things also made him one of our worst under Roman.

 

Sad but true.

We were actually behind Newcastle in the table when Jose got fired, so we very definitely could have gone down had we continued in the same rich vein of form ...

 

Onwards and upwards anyway :)

Hiddink hasn't done much better, no one has said that. What he has done, is lifted the toxic atmosphere at the club, kept us out of the papers for all the wrong reasons and got us out of a relegation scrap (we were in one at the time whether you believe it or not) and got us a top half finish. Although most of his unbeaten run were draws, at the end of the day they were not defeats. All while not having Hazard for most of that time due to injury.

 

I don't think you quite understand the situation we were in. Jose said the players betrayed him. Once he announced that, there literally was no way both him and the squad could carry on together. As I said, most pro Jose fans wanted nearly every single squad member sacked and that is impossible.

 

If he was having just a blip where there were signs that the problem could be solved then fine, but it was far from that. Emanalo wasn't lying when he said "palpable discord" existed between the manager and players.  It was game over.

 

Again, Jose wasn't sacked at the first blip. He lasted 16 games (a pretty long time) and our bad run started from game 1 to game 16. Even after a handful of games he was given a vote of confidence and the board stuck by their word. He was given time to turn it around and it was far from happening.

 

How would Jose cope next season without the ability to lure players craving CL (as so many are worried about now) and instead being handed b grade players?  Nevermind the possibility of him selling Hazard.

 

He is our best ever manager but this season, a combination of things also made him one of our worst under Roman.

 

Sad but true.

 

This is the what I keep touching on and what is the crux for me. We were all Jose fans - all loved the bloke but this time around it all turned sour. Those who are still Mourinho fans are burying their heads in the sand - willing to overlook just how bad things had got. He had lost the plot and it seemed he was picking fights with EVERYONE. Officials, opponents, own players, medical team etc etc. And THAT is why the hierarchy at Man Utd don't want him. His is unquestionably still one of the best coaches in the world (if not the best) but at times he is a complete embarrassment.

In reply to Konakai blue...

Well some of us clearly do disagree with it..and still do...I haven't even made my points re. Guus as a protest Jose should have stayed...I've just said he did a crap job...

For Those that are so willing to give him a free (bus?) pass and are content he just kept the club up as season was a write off..on Lge form alone, when chelsea beat Southampton in February, just four points separated the clubs...by the end, the gap was 13, Southampton finished fifth and qualified for Europe with a squad most will still see as inferior to ours despite our woeful start to the season...

Now, if Guus had allowed Southampton to race off into the distance because he was thinking of the bigger picture and picking Chelsea's kids week in and week out, it'd be understandable and few would have a problem...but he picked same players, same formation, no experimentation, no inspiration...a wasted opportunity

My feelings exactly. Not blaming him,was a wonderful appointment when made but the opprtunity to try out our unknown quality in the kids especially after our safety was assured wasn't taken but instead the same players that put us in the mess in first place we're being "rewarded" with game time. I'd have rather we lost every game after safety had been assured by playing a defence composing of Aina,Rahman,Clarke Salter,midfield of Casey Palmer, Colkett,Loftus Cheek, with Traore,Tammy, and even Islam Feruz in the attacking mix. Then the "good" record he achieved with 11w 12d and 6l in all competitions would have actually been for good. The reasons we don't give the kids a chance is the competition we're always in on all fronts. This season was different. They still didn't get their chance. Would it be next season when Conte is looking to assault the top end of table again they will get that opportunity?That's where my disappointment stems from.

Agreed Nibs.Would just like to add have a happy retirement Guus.

My feelings exactly. Not blaming him,was a wonderful appointment when made but the opprtunity to try out our unknown quality in the kids especially after our safety was assured wasn't taken but instead the same players that put us in the mess in first place we're being "rewarded" with game time. I'd have rather we lost every game after safety had been assured by playing a defence composing of Aina,Rahman,Clarke Salter,midfield of Casey Palmer, Colkett,Loftus Cheek, with Traore,Tammy, and even Islam Feruz in the attacking mix. Then the "good" record he achieved with 11w 12d and 6l in all competitions would have actually been for good. The reasons we don't give the kids a chance is the competition we're always in on all fronts. This season was different. They still didn't get their chance. Would it be next season when Conte is looking to assault the top end of table again they will get that opportunity?That's where my disappointment stems from.

 

 

I'm all for playing the youth but come on, that's just taking the piss!

This is the what I keep touching on and what is the crux for me. We were all Jose fans - all loved the bloke but this time around it all turned sour. Those who are still Mourinho fans are burying their heads in the sand - willing to overlook just how bad things had got. He had lost the plot and it seemed he was picking fights with EVERYONE. Officials, opponents, own players, medical team etc etc. And THAT is why the hierarchy at Man Utd don't want him. His is unquestionably still one of the best coaches in the world (if not the best) but at times he is a complete embarrassment.

Totally agree, I keep saying first stint I loved him and backed him every time. His second stint I found myself disagreeing with him and at times yelling at the TV for him to shut up. He was toxic for us in the end that can't be denied.

Southampton with their meagre resources managed to eclipse the supposedly much better Hiddink-managed Chelsea in the second half of the season as well.

 

Yes something had to done. I just don't think that something was to sack the most successful manager we've ever had six months after he won the league and weeks after he received the public support of the board. We should have just written the season off (and basically that's what we did anyway by appointing Hiddink). It would have had the added benefit of sending out a message that a manager can actually expect some support here and won't be sacked after the first blip. Conte will be looking over his shoulder after the first bad result.

 

Say we keep him and we did get relegated. Would you have still stood by him? the fact of the matter is the man completely imploded this season. He's always wanted the Utd job from the start, Chelsea was just a stepping stone for him. 

Hiddink hasn't done much better, no one has said that. What he has done, is lifted the toxic atmosphere at the club, kept us out of the papers for all the wrong reasons and got us out of a relegation scrap (we were in one at the time whether you believe it or not) and got us a top half finish. Although most of his unbeaten run were draws, at the end of the day they were not defeats. All while not having Hazard for most of that time due to injury.

 

If Hiddink hasn't done much better, then I ask again, what was the point? What did he do that Jose couldn't have done? The only argument you can make for Hiddink is keeping us up, because every other possible target in December fell by the wayside, and it's pretty likely that Jose would have somehow had enough nous to keep us up, especially if he could keep his job with draws like Hiddink was doing. Keeping us out of the papers also meant not actually defending the club or our players. Was there even a murmur from Hiddink about Clattenburg allowing the Spurs players carte blanche to kick, gouge and stamp on ours in that game?

 

Mourinho actually said he felt his tactical plans had been betrayed (ie not carried out), which the interviewer immediately took to mean the players didn't listen to his instructions. He didn't accuse the players of betrayal. Watch the interview. Of course the word betrayed was immediately seized upon and is now repeated ad nauseum.

This is the what I keep touching on and what is the crux for me. We were all Jose fans - all loved the bloke but this time around it all turned sour. Those who are still Mourinho fans are burying their heads in the sand - willing to overlook just how bad things had got. He had lost the plot and it seemed he was picking fights with EVERYONE. Officials, opponents, own players, medical team etc etc. And THAT is why the hierarchy at Man Utd don't want him. His is unquestionably still one of the best coaches in the world (if not the best) but at times he is a complete embarrassment.

Not sure why we keep going over old ground re. Jose in this debate...his mistakes and failings have been talked about time and time again...what I'm talking about is Hiddink's failings, which seem to be ignored by a lot of people because he wasn't Jose, when he should be judged just as much as Jose was...sure he didn't create any negative headlines, he didn't create any positive ones either

Steadied the Ship, positives, got Cesc and DC playing, and eventually Eden started to flower, albeit late...