4 hours ago, mojo said:

 

You can't put a value on what a character like Luiz brings to a group of players.

30 minutes ago, turnyitb said:

Am i the only one who thinks Ake could do a job in the middle of a 3 if Luiz was out?

I reckon he could comfortably play there but being left footed I think you'd want him on the left side of the three to help transition the ball forward quicker/better. 

Those games were when we were playing with a back four. 

Doesn't matter do you see how awkward he can be at times on the ball getting caught in two minds I rather him closer to the touchline

Still played in a back 4 that lost to Liverpool and Arsenal so there is still culpability. Playing the best ball means f*** all when you concede 3 so just blaming Cahill is pointless.

So what you are saying is if your Cahill or any defender makes an error the other defender's are also responsible for that ...?

2 hours ago, Brutos said:

So what you are saying is if your Cahill or any defender makes an error the other defender's are also responsible for that ...?

I'm saying you are criticising Cahill for playing in the middle against Arsenal but Luiz was there too. Chelsea conceded 3 goals so I can't exactly see how one can be blamed without the other when 3 goals are conceded. 

I can also criticise Luiz because judging on 2 performances he still couldnt play in a back 4. The current system is perfect for a player like him though.

Love the player he has developed into, Suits the role in the middle of a back 3 quite nicely.  It really has let his passing and vision come into fruition.  I do worry that we are forcing him through the season..i mean we won the CL with a one legged Luiz, so why not the prem?

If he gets injured I think we are looking at Zouma in there?  Not as good a passer, but has the physical attributes, and better pace.

12 hours ago, Ernie_blue said:

I'm saying you are criticising Cahill for playing in the middle against Arsenal but Luiz was there too. Chelsea conceded 3 goals so I can't exactly see how one can be blamed without the other when 3 goals are conceded. 

I can also criticise Luiz because judging on 2 performances he still couldnt play in a back 4. The current system is perfect for a player like him though.

Cahill literally passed Sanchez the ball for the first goal then lost Ozil at the back post for the third goal. That game was 100% Cahill's fault.

3 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Cahill literally passed Sanchez the ball for the first goal then lost Ozil at the back post for the third goal. That game was 100% Cahill's fault.

I've never seen a game blamed on one person before, never knew it was 11 v 1.

6 minutes ago, Ernie_blue said:

I've never seen a game blamed on one person before, never knew it was 11 v 1.

Well obviously that isn't the game, however the fate of a game can easily be shifted by the actions of a single person.

On 02/02/2017 at 22:16, robdog said:

Q: Are we not men? A: We are Devo Chelsea

Just now, RIP Mourinho said:

Well obviously that isn't the game, however the fate of a game can easily be shifted by the actions of a single person.

Not really, every goal has lots of different individual errors. The pass to Cahill was rubbish but that was an individual error. The second the whole defence was involved and demolished by good play. The third Luiz let Sanchez get behind in and put in the cross and Cahill lost his man.

I just can't see how someone can say get Cahill away from the centre because of the Arsenal game when it was a back 4 and Luiz was there too. Like I say I could use that game to say Luiz can't play in a back 4.

On who would replace Luiz in a back 3 if he got injured I think it would be JT because of his experience. There's also positives in using Cahill because he has played the system all year in training and matches. So he has experience of using the system but it would be a big call on who was called upon but I hope it never comes to that.

I can't believe that he didn't make the Brazil squad, a defender that plays in China was picked up before David Luiz. I can't understand this decision, but I'm fine with it, having him fit with us.

24 minutes ago, IliyaKrostin said:

I can't believe that he didn't make the Brazil squad, a defender that plays in China was picked up before David Luiz. I can't understand this decision, but I'm fine with it, having him fit with us.

He seems to have been ostracised from the National team since the 7-1 defeat to Germany. As you said though, not gonna complain if it keeps him fit!

The Brazil situation is a strange one. If theyre playing with a back four, i can see the logic in him not starting but id at least have him in the squad.

I never thought he was as bad as he was made out to be in the press durint his first stinit with us. I felt it became the norm to criticise him. Hes been excellant since we switched it up, especially as he has been carrying an injury since December. Contender for our player of the season. Altbough id still choose Kante. 

Luiz is a player who needs proper care and a coach to really buy into him. Conte and Benitez both did and its no coincidence both got the best out of him and snapped the errors out of his game. Carlo and Jose couldn't really be bothered and quickly reverted to the "safer" options of Alex and Cahill respectively while AVB, Scolari and RDM had no idea how to coach defending and it shown in Davids performances.

 

24 minutes ago, Argo said:

Luiz is a player who needs proper care and a coach to really buy into him. Conte and Benitez both did and its no coincidence both got the best out of him and snapped the errors out of his game. Carlo and Jose couldn't really be bothered and quickly reverted to the "safer" options of Alex and Cahill respectively while AVB, Scolari and RDM had no idea how to coach defending and it shown in Davids performances.

 

I seem to recall a couple of performances where Side Show Bob played very well for RDM - the real standout was on May 19th, 2012 & honestly if that was his best ever performance I would take that all day everyday

2 hours ago, Argo said:

Luiz is a player who needs proper care and a coach to really buy into him. Conte and Benitez both did and its no coincidence both got the best out of him and snapped the errors out of his game. Carlo and Jose couldn't really be bothered and quickly reverted to the "safer" options of Alex and Cahill respectively while AVB, Scolari and RDM had no idea how to coach defending and it shown in Davids performances.

 

Under Mourinho Cahill and Terry are both better defender's than Luiz and deffiantly in a back 4. They also made a great partnership so it makes sense.

1 hour ago, robdog said:

I seem to recall a couple of performances where Side Show Bob played very well for RDM - the real standout was on May 19th, 2012 & honestly if that was his best ever performance I would take that all day everyday

As amazing as he did to play through such extreme pain barrier lets be real, Cech plus a helping hand in the sky was the main reasons we triumphed, im not complaining, winning in what for me was the most adverse and unlikely circumstances in European cup history made it 1000 times sweeter and eclipses even Bolton for sheer euphoria by far, but the reality is i wouldn't have a single player from that lineup in our current one (2017 Luiz and Cahill  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2012 Luiz and Cahill).

An incredible underdogs story (in my opinion second only to Leicester in terms off an against all odds triumph since the turn off the century) but we were underdogs for a reason.

3 minutes ago, Ernie_blue said:

Under Mourinho Cahill and Terry are both better defender's than Luiz and deffiantly in a back 4. They also made a great partnership so it makes sense.

Mourinho made his choice and was ultimately justified by it as we won the title but i feel he never really tried to developed Luiz, certainly not compared to Benitez and Conte (Jesus at Benfica too) anyway.

19 minutes ago, Argo said:

As amazing as he did to play through such extreme pain barrier lets be real, Cech plus a helping hand in the sky was the main reasons we triumphed, im not complaining, winning in what for me was the most adverse and unlikely circumstances in European cup history made it 1000 times sweeter and eclipses even Bolton for sheer euphoria by far, but the reality is i wouldn't have a single player from that lineup in our current one (2017 Luiz and Cahill  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2012 Luiz and Cahill).

An incredible underdogs story (in my opinion second only to Leicester in terms off an against all odds triumph since the turn off the century) but we were underdogs for a reason.

don't forget that PK Side Show Bob took against the so-called best GK in World at the time

 

30 minutes ago, Argo said:

Mourinho made his choice and was ultimately justified by it as we won the title but i feel he never really tried to developed Luiz, certainly not compared to Benitez and Conte (Jesus at Benfica too) anyway.

Tbh Luiz now plays in a back 3 which is his ideal formation. We only have two apperances to know how good Luiz would be in a back 4 this season, my guess is not as good. Problem is how can you develop a player who switches off to much and makes mistakes. Over a season it can cost you champions league football, titles etc and the player might not even develop. Your judged on your results at the present.

Benitez just didn't get on with Terry.

On 16/02/2017 at 09:00, RIP Mourinho said:

Cahill literally passed Sanchez the ball for the first goal then lost Ozil at the back post for the third goal. That game was 100% Cahill's fault.

Totally correct, wasn't much error at all from Luiz in teh back 4, I remember him losing his man once, other than that was pretty on point. 

37 minutes ago, DonAntonio said:

Totally correct, wasn't much error at all from Luiz in teh back 4, I remember him losing his man once, other than that was pretty on point. 

First of all a back 4 plays as a unit and Luiz is a part of that unit so theres always blame. By some peoples thinking if someone gives the ball away then the attacker misses from a yrd out the player gets out of any criticism because the ball didn't go in the net, no chance.

First goal was an individual error from Cahill, Luiz has had plenty of those in his career. Happens to all players including the best.

Second goal which Luiz can take as much blame as any in the back 4 with the way Walcott freely walked into the area.

Third goal watch it back and to blame it all on Cahill is in a dreamworld. Luiz should of presured Ozil but he didn't help the situation by coming and going, coming and going. Then Luiz let Sanchez run straight past him. Cahill confidence was shot by that point and Luiz being indecisive didn't help at all. That was collectively very poor defending and no individual error.

 

17 hours ago, Ernie_blue said:

First of all a back 4 plays as a unit and Luiz is a part of that unit so theres always blame. By some peoples thinking if someone gives the ball away then the attacker misses from a yrd out the player gets out of any criticism because the ball didn't go in the net, no chance.

First goal was an individual error from Cahill, Luiz has had plenty of those in his career. Happens to all players including the best.

Second goal which Luiz can take as much blame as any in the back 4 with the way Walcott freely walked into the area.

Third goal watch it back and to blame it all on Cahill is in a dreamworld. Luiz should of presured Ozil but he didn't help the situation by coming and going, coming and going. Then Luiz let Sanchez run straight past him. Cahill confidence was shot by that point and Luiz being indecisive didn't help at all. That was collectively very poor defending and no individual error.

 

No, honestly no, there isn't a concept of a unit unless everyone is doing their job badly at once in the lead up, if all 3 are on point and one makes an error it costs a goal in many instances, let your man go, don't contest a ball, give the ball away, don't get in line with the offside trap, all individual errors that teh other 3 can't help, you want to fight a fight but you can't alter reality to do so, what you've said, I'm sorry to say is dead wrong,  individual errors are responsible for a lot of goals, if everyone does there job you can still get played through by a good attacking team, sometimes it takes a series of errors in a team thats set up well and organised, sometimes you're stretched and under pressure and it just takes one. 

6 minutes ago, DonAntonio said:

No, honestly no, there isn't a concept of a unit unless everyone is doing their job badly at once in the lead up, if all 3 are on point and one makes an error it costs a goal in many instances, let your man go, don't contest a ball, give the ball away, don't get in line with the offside trap, all individual errors that teh other 3 can't help, you want to fight a fight but you can't alter reality to do so, what you've said, I'm sorry to say is dead wrong,  individual errors are responsible for a lot of goals, if everyone does there job you can still get played through by a good attacking team, sometimes it takes a series of errors in a team thats set up well and organised, sometimes you're stretched and under pressure and it just takes one. 

The last 2 goals was not individual errors. Luiz was just as much to blame as Cahill. Luiz and Cahill was awful in both goals.