13 hours ago, Zeta said:

Our main problem is the stupid zonal marking at set pieces. Like having Caicedo marking Haaland, who has about a foot on him.

This is more of squad building problem 

13 hours ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Thought we conceded loads the 2010 season or i'm mistaken. Sometimes all it takes really is a good defensive/set piece coach. 

Everyone criticized Klopp set piece defense in his early tenure. Alisson, matip, Vvd and Fabinho came in and and It just stopped. 

Silva, Disasi, Reece and Jackson all big lads that start every game. Sprinkle in Colwill at LB and we've plenty of height in the team for set pieces. The issue seems to be losing our men though. 

6 hours ago, Bob stark said:

Everyone criticized Klopp set piece defense in his early tenure. Alisson, matip, Vvd and Fabinho came in and and It just stopped. 

Personnel helps but in some instances that won't fix it. You need marginal gains.  I mentioned the 2010 season where we had a lot of physicality and aerial dominance, but we still conceded a lot from balls being whipped in. 

Nicolas Jover the set piece who was previously at City, reduced the amount of goals they conceded from 39% in 2018 to 19% in 2021.  

16 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Silva, Disasi, Reece and Jackson all big lads that start every game. Sprinkle in Colwill at LB and we've plenty of height in the team for set pieces. The issue seems to be losing our men though. 

Silva is very average in the air. Jackson is also not great. Reece is also average

Unlike when you are attacking, where you can use clever movement to trick defender, when you are defending you need to win your battle. 

There is no magic trick. Get Badi healthy, that will help. 

Edited November 15, 20232 yr by Bob stark

On 13/11/2023 at 17:24, Zeta said:

Our main problem is the stupid zonal marking at set pieces. Like having Caicedo marking Haaland, who has about a foot on him.

Spot on. I said this in the match thread. Absolutely hate it with a passion. Zonal marking at set pieces is always an accident waiting to happen.

7 minutes ago, just said:

Spot on. I said this in the match thread. Absolutely hate it with a passion. Zonal marking at set pieces is always an accident waiting to happen.

I`m not sure its a standard zonal marking as we normally see it, there seems to be a mix of zonal with others man marking. On the arkanji goal he was being picked up by Enzo, but when they went short he left him to pressure the ball, which is why he was completely alone in the middle. Normally in zonal that place would definately be picked up.

6 hours ago, Bob stark said:

Silva is very average in the air. Jackson is also not great. Reece is also average

Unlike when you are attacking, where you can use clever movement to trick defender, when you are defending you need to win your battle. 

There is no magic trick. Get Badi healthy, that will help. 

No way is Silva just average in the air Bob. His timing is impeccable.

Jackson and James 100% agree. Just because you are tall doesn't make you good in the air, as Tammy Abraham proved. Likewise being small doesn't necessarily preclude a player from being poor aerially. Sure being taller is an advantage but timing is key, spring, movement, commitment and many times, bravery, all come into it too.

The best we have ever had, and probably ever will have, was Drogba. Of our smaller players, David Speedie was awesome. 

12 minutes ago, just said:

No way is Silva just average in the air Bob. His timing is impeccable.

Jackson and James 100% agree. Just because you are tall doesn't make you good in the air, as Tammy Abraham proved. Likewise being small doesn't necessarily preclude a player from being poor aerially. Sure being taller is an advantage but timing is key, spring, movement, commitment and many times, bravery, all come into it too.

The best we have ever had, and probably ever will have, was Drogba. Of our smaller players, David Speedie was awesome. 

But he is. 

Offensively he is very good because he is very clever and his movement is excellent.

But defensively you can't use all of that. You can't just move, you need to mark your opp/zone and attack the ball. Just watch how  silva attack crosses vs  Badi or Zouma. 

 

Edited November 15, 20232 yr by Bob stark

22 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

But he is. 

Offensively he is very good because he is very clever and his movement is excellent.

But defensively you can't use all of that. You can't just move, you need to mark your opp/zone and attack the ball. Just watch how  silva attack crosses vs  Badi or Zouma. 

 

He isn't Bob. If Badi and Zouma are more naturally agile and have a higher natural leap, they will probably be more dominant in the air and win more contested balls. Particularly if they are taller too. But that doesn't make Silva poor in the air. 

I haven't seen enough yet of Badi to form a finished opinion, but as we know Zouma has a prodigious spring and is very, very brave in air. His aerial strength is easily the strongest part of his game.

Edited November 15, 20232 yr by just

32 minutes ago, dkw said:

I`m not sure its a standard zonal marking as we normally see it, there seems to be a mix of zonal with others man marking. On the arkanji goal he was being picked up by Enzo, but when they went short he left him to pressure the ball, which is why he was completely alone in the middle. Normally in zonal that place would definately be picked up.

If it is a hybrid mix of zonal marking and man marking that is an even bigger accident waiting to happen. It is completely over complicating defending set pieces. 

I firmly believe players deal with these situations better in a simple, straight forward system. Mark man for man. Put your tallest players up against their tallest players. Stay tight, if they run, you run. But most importantly, do absolutely everything you can to stay the right side of your opponent as that ball is coming in.

31 minutes ago, just said:

If it is a hybrid mix of zonal marking and man marking that is an even bigger accident waiting to happen. It is completely over complicating defending set pieces. 

I firmly believe players deal with these situations better in a simple, straight forward system. Mark man for man. Put your tallest players up against their tallest players. Stay tight, if they run, you run. But most importantly, do absolutely everything you can to stay the right side of your opponent as that ball is coming in.

It is very hard with our squad. Let's try to simulate our marking scheme

Disasi v Haaland 

Silva v Rodri

Gvardiol v james

Dias v Conor (doubtful) 

Who will mark ankanji?

You will never ask st to mark player, it just never work so not Jackson and Jackson is not really good in the air anwyay. 

Cucurella?? 🤣🤣🤣

But imagine if ugo is ready 😍😍😍. I just love tall dm. 

6 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

It is very hard with our squad. Let's try to simulate our marking scheme

Disasi v Haaland 

Silva v Rodri

Gvardiol v james

Dias v Conor (doubtful) 

Who will mark ankanji?

You will never ask st to mark player, it just never work so not Jackson and Jackson is not really good in the air anwyay. 

Cucurella?? 🤣🤣🤣

But imagine if ugo is ready 😍😍😍. I just love tall dm. 

spot on.. if we have bigger players we score more and concede less.. Bran, Terry, Alex/Cahill, Drogba made us extremely good at it.. 

1 hour ago, just said:

If it is a hybrid mix of zonal marking and man marking that is an even bigger accident waiting to happen. It is completely over complicating defending set pieces. 

I firmly believe players deal with these situations better in a simple, straight forward system. Mark man for man. Put your tallest players up against their tallest players. Stay tight, if they run, you run. But most importantly, do absolutely everything you can to stay the right side of your opponent as that ball is coming in.

That's a bit simplistic. There's a reason hybrid marking is the most common system employed by top sides today. Otherwise the attacking unit could create big gaps to be exploited by players who are more agile than their counterparts in duels. 

There are kinks to be worked out. And it's the first time in a while that we've played with two actual fullbacks. 

57 minutes ago, Jangz said:

spot on.. if we have bigger players we score more and concede less.. Bran, Terry, Alex/Cahill, Drogba made us extremely good at it.. 

It is fine to have short player. But if your lb is Cucu and your st is Jackson, you want either your dm to be tall or your CB to be very dominant. 

Regarding set pieces. Can we improve our set pieces? Absolutely, we concede way too many. But can we be very good at it? Without the personel impossible. 

I can say do this do that, be organize, ready to jump, fight whatever. But asking Cucurella to stop Haaland in the air is impossible.  The difference in power and aerial ability is simply too big. 

 

 

Edited November 15, 20232 yr by Bob stark

3 hours ago, just said:

If it is a hybrid mix of zonal marking and man marking that is an even bigger accident waiting to happen. It is completely over complicating defending set pieces. 

I firmly believe players deal with these situations better in a simple, straight forward system. Mark man for man. Put your tallest players up against their tallest players. Stay tight, if they run, you run. But most importantly, do absolutely everything you can to stay the right side of your opponent as that ball is coming in.

I hate zonal, , marking an area means players stood still waiting on arriving attackers, which has never made sense to me. Mark them, block them off, get in front, take the blame if you dont while having players attack the bloody ball. Drogba is one of the best defenders weve had at set pieces, he just positioned himself and attacked the set piece. We dont seem to have that now.

Edited November 15, 20232 yr by dkw

2 hours ago, Bob stark said:

Regarding set pieces. Can we improve our set pieces? Absolutely, we concede way too many. But can we be very good at it? Without the personel impossible. 

I can say do this do that, be organize, ready to jump, fight whatever. But asking Cucurella to stop Haaland in the air is impossible.  The difference in power and aerial ability is simply too big. 

 

 

You've reinforced my point right there Bob. Under no circumstances should Cucurella be picking up Halaand at set pieces!! Ever!

No system is a perfect science, but if you match your players up by height and drill them to get the right side, be mobile, and jump / challenge for the ball, that is often enough to make sure the attacker doesn't get a free header.

12 hours ago, Bob stark said:

Silva is very average in the air. Jackson is also not great. Reece is also average

Unlike when you are attacking, where you can use clever movement to trick defender, when you are defending you need to win your battle. 

There is no magic trick. Get Badi healthy, that will help. 

Silva wins 74.2% of his aerial duals this season, more than Matip and Fabinho (last season at L'pool) that you mentioned. Reece wins about the same level of aerial duels as Fabinho did for Liverpool too. 

Agree we need Badiashile back, but he wins less duels than Silva so don't think it helps us that much from corners.

4 hours ago, Bob stark said:

It is very hard with our squad. Let's try to simulate our marking scheme

Disasi v Haaland 

Silva v Rodri

Gvardiol v james

Dias v Conor (doubtful) 

Who will mark ankanji?

You will never ask st to mark player, it just never work so not Jackson and Jackson is not really good in the air anwyay. 

Cucurella?? 🤣🤣🤣

But imagine if ugo is ready 😍😍😍. I just love tall dm. 

How about Sanchez, big lad he is  ;)

Everybody was praising him too soon, he's an awful defender. Asking him to maintain just a bit of composure is too much. Asking him to read the game is too much. He doesn't even offer anything in attack. A very poor footballer that will never help us progress.

8 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

Everybody was praising him too soon, he's an awful defender. Asking him to maintain just a bit of composure is too much. Asking him to read the game is too much. He doesn't even offer anything in attack. A very poor footballer that will never help us progress.

Yep, I never got carried away with it, always looked like a headless chicken at the back but the hair doesn't help. 

Should be the first one out and replaced in the summer IMO, he's not good enough. 

Just now, Victor90 said:

Yep, I never got carried away with it, always looked like a headless chicken at the back but the hair doesn't help. 

Should be the first one out and replaced in the summer IMO, he's not good enough. 

Even after the game against City where everybody was singing his praises, I was pointing out how reckless he was with pressing. He simply doesn't know how to defend. He guesses, every time. Any time he gets a block in or a tackle, it's from guessing, not because he knew that was the right time to make the tackle.

Levi back to left back then?

19 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Levi back to left back then?

Got no choice, Cucurella got himself suspended.

That is two players already that have been suspended for picking up too many yellow cards. I think it took Jackson 5 games. Add James and Pochettino, and we are up to 4 already.

Defence will raise some eyebrows against Brighton. Disasi RB, Silva CB, Badiashile CB and Colwill LB.