1 hour ago, Victor90 said:

Short memories people have on here, the kids got serious talent, another massive blunder on Marescas part. 

Agreed.

Maresca has taken one of our highlights from last season - and completely blunted him. He has done the same for a number of players - including arguably for Palmer (or en route to doing so)

He looked like the best RB in the league last season now he’s regressing under Maresca.

Palmer and Gusto are 22 & 21 years old. They are not "regressing."

They are young players. Inconsistency comes with the territory. Bad patches of form is typically better mitigtaed with experience in the team to fall back on. Their bad form is especially highlighted when the team lacks any real experienced quality. 

 

20 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Palmer and Gusto are 22 & 21 years old. They are not "regressing."

They are young players. Inconsistency comes with the territory. Bad patches of form is typically better mitigtaed with experience in the team to fall back on. Their bad form is especially highlighted when the team lacks any real experienced quality. 

 

I would argue an entire season of looking a shadow of yourself from the season before is regressing, Gusto should have been able to push on this season but the managers tactics have stunted his growth. Basically a wasted year for him. 

20 minutes ago, Ukraine Bolt said:

I would argue an entire season of looking a shadow of yourself from the season before is regressing, Gusto should have been able to push on this season but the managers tactics have stunted his growth. Basically a wasted year for him. 

I don't find it any more unsual than TAA being utterly woeful in 2020-2021 for Liverpool when the entire team was in a bad rut. No coincidence their experienced heads in VVD, Matip and Allison being out contributed a lot. 

34 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

I don't find it any more unsual than TAA being utterly woeful in 2020-2021 for Liverpool when the entire team was in a bad rut. No coincidence their experienced heads in VVD, Matip and Allison being out contributed a lot. 

Trent had 3 world class season and a PL and CL medal to fall back on though, our current form is completely self inflicted by the ownership/management. 

53 minutes ago, Ukraine Bolt said:

Trent had 3 world class season and a PL and CL medal to fall back on though, our current form is completely self inflicted by the ownership/management. 

What does that have to do with TAA being a young player who suffered an inconsistent season? Gusto this season was no where near as bad as TAA during that 20/21 campaign. 

2 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

What does that have to do with TAA being a young player who suffered an inconsistent season? Gusto this season was no where near as bad as TAA during that 20/21 campaign. 

What does TAA have to do with this conversation at all? Gusto has barely resembled a footballer this year, and that's solely down to management. 

5 minutes ago, Ukraine Bolt said:

What does TAA have to do with this conversation at all? Gusto has barely resembled a footballer this year, and that's solely down to management. 

TAA is direct evidence to back my point. Young players are prone to being inconsistent and it's made all the worse when the team is in bad shape. TAA at Gusto's age suffered one of the worst individual seasons ever. It happens. 

1 minute ago, Sconnie Blue said:

TAA is direct evidence to back my point. Young players are prone to being inconsistent and it's made all the worse when the team is in bad shape. TAA at Gusto's age suffered one of the worst individual seasons ever. It happens. 

How is it direct evidence? You're comparing someone having a bad season after 3 consecutive world class season and winning the biggest trophies possible to someone that's being forced to play in an unnatural role that he's absolutely dog sh*t at that's clearly stunting his growth as a player. One is a dip in form, the other is a direct consequence of poor management. 

The system absolutely nullifies all of Gusto’s strengths.

Hand on heart with his appearances last season I wasn’t missing James half as much as I should.

This year? Much like Palmer being forced to play central. It’s all about the system. Not the player. 

3 minutes ago, Ukraine Bolt said:

How is it direct evidence? You're comparing someone having a bad season after 3 consecutive world class season and winning the biggest trophies possible to someone that's being forced to play in an unnatural role that he's absolutely dog sh*t at that's clearly stunting his growth as a player. One is a dip in form, the other is a direct consequence of poor management. 

We have a thin squad that lacks any leadership and experience. To suggest its' "soely down to management" is wildly off the mark. The team is a mess. 

TAA in 20/21 wasn't a dip in form. It went on the entire season and it started after Villa practically retired TAA in the 7-2 defeat. The moment VVD/Allison/Matip were out for the season, Liverpool lose their leadership and experience and TAA's horrific form is highlighted even more. 

TAA having 3 good seasons (in my opinion only 2 really) before that emphasis my case even more that young players can have drop offs. He was only 21. Like Gusto.

 

9 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

We have a thin squad that lacks any leadership and experience. To suggest its' "soely down to management" is wildly off the mark. The team is a mess. 

TAA in 20/21 wasn't a dip in form. It went on the entire season and it started after Villa practically retired TAA in the 7-2 defeat. The moment VVD/Allison/Matip were out for the season, Liverpool lose their leadership and experience and TAA's horrific form is highlighted even more. 

TAA having 3 good seasons (in my opinion only 2 really) before that emphasis my case even more that young players can have drop offs. He was only 21. Like Gusto.

 

Gusto isn't having a 'drop off', he's playing a role that completely nullifies him. Play him as an over lapping full back and he'd be as good as last season. 

Its solely down to management. 

20 minutes ago, Ukraine Bolt said:

Gusto isn't having a 'drop off', he's playing a role that completely nullifies him. Play him as an over lapping full back and he'd be as good as last season. 

Its solely down to management. 

Nullify him? Even under Poch he'd overlap and then deliver a cross even Jose Bosingwa would've been ashamed of. When James came back against Forrest we all realized what we were missing. 

Gusto's best trait last season was his ability to defend. Maresca's system has nothing to do with Gusto's poor defensive judgement. That's on him, and its forgiven considering his age. 

 

15 hours ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Nullify him? Even under Poch he'd overlap and then deliver a cross even Jose Bosingwa would've been ashamed of. When James came back against Forrest we all realized what we were missing. 

Gusto's best trait last season was his ability to defend. Maresca's system has nothing to do with Gusto's poor defensive judgement. That's on him, and its forgiven considering his age. 

 

Him being stood as a number 10 most the game has nothing to do with his defensive frailties this season? Are you sure? He still picked up 6 assists last season with his crossing, this season he has 1. 

Its down to his role. Square peg, round hole. Its all on baldy. 

16 hours ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Nullify him? Even under Poch he'd overlap and then deliver a cross even Jose Bosingwa would've been ashamed of. When James came back against Forrest we all realized what we were missing. 

Gusto's best trait last season was his ability to defend. Maresca's system has nothing to do with Gusto's poor defensive judgement. That's on him, and its forgiven considering his age. 

 

Come on mate, his crossing was never that bad. 

Another reason I like Gusto overlapping is he doesn't just brainless run and whip crosses in, he looks for passes into the box and quick 1-2's. Maybe this is why Enzo thinks he can play as a number 10. 🤪

This is an example of how I find it hard to judge how good a player is. He looked decent to me, but recently he's not looked good at all. But is he just really not that good or is he being dragged down by those around him? And who is dragging down who in this team? Surely they're not all terrible suddenly. Even Palmer looks a shadow of what he was in the first half the season. And Caicedo has dropped since his best spell when Lavia had a brief moment of not being injured. Or is it the manager that has actually dragged them all down?

Young explosive fullback looks sh*t when asked to play as a DM. What a shock.

42 minutes ago, Zeta said:

Young explosive fullback looks sh*t when asked to play as a DM. What a shock.

Maresca is clearly the kind of guy who would call an electrician to fix a leak in his toilet 🙂 

4 hours ago, Ukraine Bolt said:

Him being stood as a number 10 most the game has nothing to do with his defensive frailties this season? Are you sure? He still picked up 6 assists last season with his crossing, this season he has 1. 

Its down to his role. Square peg, round hole. Its all on baldy. 

I'm not talking about opportunities going down his flank given he's out of position, I am talking about how he's severely dropped in every defensive metric (tackling, duels won, take ons, etc,). We even played a flat back 4 against Brighton in the FA Cup and he won only 2 of his 12 duels. He used to have Mitoma on lock last season. 

3 hours ago, Remodez said:

Come on mate, his crossing was never that bad. 

Another reason I like Gusto overlapping is he doesn't just brainless run and whip crosses in, he looks for passes into the box and quick 1-2's. Maybe this is why Enzo thinks he can play as a number 10. 🤪

If I had a nickle for every post on this forum crticizing Gusto's delivery in the box I'd be a millionaire. He doesn't pick his head up. 

11 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

I'm not talking about opportunities going down his flank given he's out of position, I am talking about how he's severely dropped in every defensive metric (tackling, duels won, take ons, etc,). We even played a flat back 4 against Brighton in the FA Cup and he won only 2 of his 12 duels. He used to have Mitoma on lock last season. 

If I had a nickle for every post on this forum crticizing Gusto's delivery in the box I'd be a millionaire. He doesn't pick his head up. 

His defensive metrics aren't even really down, he's just stinking everywhere else because he's severely out of position.

8 minutes ago, Ukraine Bolt said:

His defensive metrics aren't even really down, he's just stinking everywhere else because he's severely out of position.

No. They are really down. Almost every single one that involves 1 v 1 duels.  

Edited February 11, 20251 yr by Sconnie Blue

49 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

I'm not talking about opportunities going down his flank given he's out of position, I am talking about how he's severely dropped in every defensive metric (tackling, duels won, take ons, etc,). We even played a flat back 4 against Brighton in the FA Cup and he won only 2 of his 12 duels. He used to have Mitoma on lock last season. 

If I had a nickle for every post on this forum crticizing Gusto's delivery in the box I'd be a millionaire. He doesn't pick his head up. 

I think his crossing was more inconsistent than outright bad but I'll be happy to be corrected if you have the stats on that as well.  Obviously not as good as James though.

Also I do agree he has been worse defensively this season even when at RB so has to take some personal responsibility but I have to wonder how much of this is because of the system ruining his confidence. It's not normal for a young player with no serious injury to decline so quickly.

Edited February 11, 20251 yr by Remodez

15 minutes ago, Remodez said:

I think his crossing was more inconsistent than outright bad but I'll be happy to be corrected if you have the stats on that as well.  Obviously not as good as James though.

Also I do agree he has been worse defensively this season even when at RB so has to take some personal responsibility but I have to wonder how much of this is because of the system ruining his confidence. It's not normal for a young player with no serious injury to decline so quickly.

He's 21 and it comes with the package. 

18 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

He's 21 and it comes with the package. 

I agree. Inconsistency is quite common with younger players. Also this season he has been in and out of the team a fair bit. Partially when Reece has been available, partially while the new system is being worked out, and partially through injuries.