Just now, Bob stark said:

If you plan is to play Caicedo + dm, where are you going to play Enzo? 

433. 

 

6 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

433. 

 

I think if we do that we will have similar problem to sarri 433. Back then we had 3 midfielder who were all better behind the ball, luckily Kante was so good that it sort of work. 

Not sure Enzo is comfortable playing very high

 

Edited June 21, 20233 yr by Bob stark

12 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

I think if we do that we will have similar problem to sarri 433. Back then we had 3 midfielder who were all better behind the ball, luckily Kante was so good that it sort of work. 

Not sure Enzo is comfortable playing very high

 

Think there is enough samples to show Enzo's influence inside/around the box with the ball. Enzo would operate as a traditional deep lying playmaker ahead of a DM with Caicedo as an advanced box to box. Think its strong defensively and allows every 1 of the 3 midfielders to perform to their strengths. 4231 with Enzo in the base and Nkunku as a CAM doesn't seem strong enough defensively for me unless Pochettino can coach them. 

Issue with Sarri's midfield was the lack of creativity from midfield. 

 

Edited June 21, 20233 yr by Sconnie Blue

3 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Think there is enough samples to show Enzo's influence inside/around the box with the ball. Enzo would operate as a traditional deep lying playmaker ahead of a DM with Caicedo as an advanced box to box. Think its strong defensively and allows every 1 of the 3 midfielders to perform to their strengths. 4231 with Enzo in the base and Nkunku as a CAM doesn't seem strong enough defensively for me unless Pochettino can coach them. 

Issue with Sarri's midfield was the lack of creativity from midfield. 

 

I see so the one that will go forward more is Caicedo. That is fine.

However the question will be is it better for Caicedo to go forward more or for Reece/Chilwell to go forward more? 

2 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

I see so the one that will go forward more is Caicedo. That is fine.

However the question will be is it better for Caicedo to go forward more or for Reece/Chilwell to go forward more? 

On the ball I think we'd see something similar to this. (Judging by Tifo's analysis on Pochettino's 2016/17 Spurs side). 

Key in all of this is Pochettino's ability to successfully implement the team press and structure in defensive transition. 

 

Kepa

Fofana         Colwill

DM

              Enzo

James            Caicedo          Chilwell

Sterling     Nkunku

Jackson 

 

 

27 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

I think if we do that we will have similar problem to sarri 433. Back then we had 3 midfielder who were all better behind the ball, luckily Kante was so good that it sort of work. 

Not sure Enzo is comfortable playing very high

 

Problem we had in Sarri's season was the fullbacks. Azpi couldn't produce consistently in the build up and Alonso while he could when in the final 3rd his lack of pace often became an issue and the backups were next to non entities.

Now we have two who can consistently produce and two backups who can hopefully offer a good attacking game.

4 minutes ago, Argo said:

Problem we had in Sarri's season was the fullbacks. Azpi couldn't produce consistently in the build up and Alonso while he could when in the final 3rd his lack of pace often became an issue and the backups were next to non entities.

Now we have two who can consistently produce and two backups who can hopefully offer a good attacking game.

And the fact Jorginho had his limitations defensively and between Kovacic/Ruben and Kante there wasn't much creativity. 

Get a proper DM, allow Enzo to operate as a deep lying playmaker and Caicedo as a box to box who has some pretty impressive xT metrics. 

So Kai has gone and these are the other updates from BBC

Chelsea, meanwhile, are seeking to reduce their squad size and have also agreed a £30m deal with Manchester City for Croatia midfielder Mateo Kovacic, 29.

Another midfielder, France international N'Golo Kante, 32, has agreed to sign for Saudi Arabian champions Al-Ittihad when his contract expires at the end of June.

48 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

On the ball I think we'd see something similar to this. (Judging by Tifo's analysis on Pochettino's 2016/17 Spurs side). 

Key in all of this is Pochettino's ability to successfully implement the team press and structure in defensive transition. 

 

Kepa

Fofana         Colwill

DM

              Enzo

James            Caicedo          Chilwell

Sterling     Nkunku

Jackson 

 

 

If your plan is to push both fb very high, I think 343 is a very good option

Replace that dm with a cb and you have the exact same configuration

 

 

45 minutes ago, Argo said:

Problem we had in Sarri's season was the fullbacks. Azpi couldn't produce consistently in the build up and Alonso while he could when in the final 3rd his lack of pace often became an issue and the backups were next to non entities.

Now we have two who can consistently produce and two backups who can hopefully offer a good attacking game.

I don't understand what you mean by produce consistently in the build up. 

 

 

4 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

If your plan is to push both fb very high, I think 343 is a very good option

Replace that dm with a cb and you have the exact same configuration

 

 

Could do, only difference is that we saw Dier drop deeper from midfield when Rose and Walker pushed up, but off the ball Dier pushed back into midfield to support Dembele/Eriksen. 

 

 

I am not usually reader of The Current Bun, but this head line is food for thought,  I think 

Potentially only three left form a Champions League winning side !  

5 hours ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Could do, only difference is that we saw Dier drop deeper from midfield when Rose and Walker pushed up, but off the ball Dier pushed back into midfield to support Dembele/Eriksen. 

 

 

I think any of our four CBs could perform that third CB/DM role really well. We're seeing City (Stones into midfield) and Liverpool/United (Fabinho/Casemiro into CB) use that flexibility really well to get an extra man in attack and defence.

With Gusto on the books though, I'd really like to see us try Reece James in midfield against teams without strong wingers. 

3 hours ago, SydneyChelsea said:

I think any of our four CBs could perform that third CB/DM role really well. We're seeing City (Stones into midfield) and Liverpool/United (Fabinho/Casemiro into CB) use that flexibility really well to get an extra man in attack and defence.

With Gusto on the books though, I'd really like to see us try Reece James in midfield against teams without strong wingers. 

If the plan is to play half back, rice is kinda perfect. Honestly, rice is so perfect for us it make no sense

10 hours ago, andy said:

I am not usually reader of The Current Bun, but this head line is food for thought,  I think 

Potentially only three left form a Champions League winning side !  

Makes sense, they've been the 3 that have been the most consistent since the champions league win. The others have either been injured, declined with age, wanted to leave the tea,, or have been inconsistent in terms of form.

Edited June 22, 20233 yr by Frankie8Lampard

On 21/06/2023 at 16:12, Sconnie Blue said:

On the ball I think we'd see something similar to this. (Judging by Tifo's analysis on Pochettino's 2016/17 Spurs side). 

Key in all of this is Pochettino's ability to successfully implement the team press and structure in defensive transition. 

 

Kepa

Fofana         Colwill

DM

              Enzo

James            Caicedo          Chilwell

Sterling     Nkunku

Jackson 

 

 

Enzo is your DM, he naturally goes deep to take the ball and to distribute and he has a really good long ball too, stop changing his natural position that he prefer to play for no reason.

On 21/06/2023 at 13:47, axman2526 said:

Or could he do from there what John Stones is doing for City?

certainly has the skillset to do so, don't think i want to see us copy City too much though. Rather Pochettino stick to what he knows for now and lock down the basics. 

1 hour ago, Gol15 said:

Enzo is your DM, he naturally goes deep to take the ball and to distribute and he has a really good long ball too, stop changing his natural position that he prefer to play for no reason.

At River, Benfica, and Argentina Enzo has always been a deep lying play maker accompanied by a defensive midfielder. 

On 21/06/2023 at 14:58, Sconnie Blue said:

Think there is enough samples to show Enzo's influence inside/around the box with the ball. Enzo would operate as a traditional deep lying playmaker ahead of a DM with Caicedo as an advanced box to box. Think its strong defensively and allows every 1 of the 3 midfielders to perform to their strengths. 4231 with Enzo in the base and Nkunku as a CAM doesn't seem strong enough defensively for me unless Pochettino can coach them. 

Issue with Sarri's midfield was the lack of creativity from midfield. 

 

Minimal goals in that midfield if any at all, has Caicedo ever played as the most advanced midfielder before over here? Scored 1 in 43 last season. 

1 minute ago, Sconnie Blue said:

At River, Benfica, and Argentina Enzo has always been a deep lying play maker accompanied by a defensive midfielder. 

I wouldn't bother, its like going in circles to try and explain it to Gol. He wants Enzo being the Fabregas and the Matic all by himself. 

Just now, RIP Mourinho said:

Minimal goals in that midfield if any at all, has Caicedo ever played as the most advanced midfielder before over here? Scored 1 in 43 last season. 

Think we are struggling for goals regardless next season. Going to take some time. 

1 hour ago, Gol15 said:

Enzo is your DM, he naturally goes deep to take the ball and to distribute and he has a really good long ball too, stop changing his natural position that he prefer to play for no reason.

Its almost like you don't know the difference between a defensive midfielder and a deep lying playmaker, they compliment each other. Its not one or the other. Please understand it, I'm begging. Everyone's bored of having this same conversation with you. 

31 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

At River, Benfica, and Argentina Enzo has always been a deep lying play maker accompanied by a defensive midfielder. 

This is not true.

26 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Its almost like you don't know the difference between a defensive midfielder and a deep lying playmaker, they compliment each other. Its not one or the other. Please understand it, I'm begging. Everyone's bored of having this same conversation with you. 

A DM can also be a deep lying playmaker at the same time, it doesn't need to be two players. Enzo literally came in to play at the base of the midfield as Jorginho left and this is what he himself naturally plays.

Debut match vs Fulham, in front of him Mount and Gallagher:

Similarly how he had in front of him in the World Cup Final, DePaul and MacAllister:

Insisting that Enzo should change his position, while he himself put himself to play exactly where he wants to play... Simply isn't logical. He is a DM player.

 

1 minute ago, Gol15 said:

A DM can also be a deep lying playmaker at the same time, it doesn't need to be two players. Enzo literally came in to play at the base of the midfield as Jorginho left and this is what he himself naturally plays.

Debut match vs Fulham, in front of him Mount and Gallagher:

Similarly how he had in front of him in the World Cup Final, DePaul and MacAllister:

Insisting that Enzo should change his position, while he himself put himself to play exactly where he wants to play... Simply isn't logical. He is a DM player.

 

And we had the same issues with Jorginho for the past 4 years. Neither are good enough defensively on their own outside of short cup competitions. 

For Argentina he has De Paul doing most of the dirty work himself, who's doing that at Chelsea? The debut match you posted ended 0-0, with Fulham actually managing more shots on target than us. 

No one is saying he should play as an attacking mid or anything of the sort. Don't know if you followed Chelsea back then but think back to when Mourinho has Fabregas and Matic playing at the base of midfield together. It'd be the same. Enzo doing all the progressive passing and someone else doing the dirty work for him (De Paul for Argentina). I'm on my knees right now, PLEASE understand it. For the love of god and all that's holy please get the synapses firing.