7 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

OK I had a few minutes spare, so I've compiled a table from the data referenced at link above : 

Also included the squad average age, # internationals, # overseas players., as that data was also there so thought I might as well include it 🙂 

Table sorted in reverse order of average number of minutes played in the PL per player in the squad. 

Nice one, thanks mate.  I was expecting us to be bottom by a distance, although I'm guessing that TransferMarkt only counts top-flight minutes?

5 minutes ago, PloKoon13 said:

Nice one, thanks mate.  I was expecting us to be bottom by a distance, although I'm guessing that TransferMarkt only counts top-flight minutes?

PL data only

Edited January 20, 20251 yr by Sexyfootball

Think most judgments need to be made at the end of the season. Klopp scraped 4th in his first full season, Pep also hardly set the world alight. He's done enough so far with what he has to have some decent credit. I think my main issue is he doesn't seem to have any player loyalty, and I can see him eventually losing the players.

2 minutes ago, theGreenBaron said:

 doesn't seem to have any player loyalty, and I can see him eventually losing the players.

Not sure where you get that from, hes picking pretty much the same side as often as he possibly can. I mean Jackson alone being in every team even after abysmal games proves that wrong.

On 17/01/2025 at 17:23, Sexyfootball said:

Watching that ... quite unbelievable that Pep let him go so easily !

 

Why waste time nurturing talent when you can go and easily buy the finished product for £60m every window. We saw it enough at Chelsea, Palmer's transition into the mens game is unheard of. Like a duck to water. 

Just wish we'd sign a striker. Most of our problems go away if we have players on the pitch that can put the ball in the back of the net

1 hour ago, theGreenBaron said:

Think most judgments need to be made at the end of the season. Klopp scraped 4th in his first full season, Pep also hardly set the world alight. He's done enough so far with what he has to have some decent credit. I think my main issue is he doesn't seem to have any player loyalty, and I can see him eventually losing the players.

Both Klopp and Pep came into teams that needed a full rebuild.

Enzo has took over a squad that has completed its rebuild the year before and was in some of the finest form in the league in the second half of the season. 

4 hours ago, Zeta said:

I'm just getting tired of this newwave of managers who have a "philosophy" and refuse to ever change it. Look at Maresca, look at Postecoglu who says he won't ever change his approach, look now at Amorim who says he'll never change. It's like they design a system and then are incapable of thinking outside of it. WHatever happened to just, good managers, who adapted to what suited the players best, or what the right approach for a particular game was? 

That's just how management is these days and ultimately them sticking to their philosophy is how they ended up at the top clubs in the first place. 

1 hour ago, dkw said:

Not sure where you get that from, hes picking pretty much the same side as often as he possibly can. I mean Jackson alone being in every team even after abysmal games proves that wrong.

Outside in if i look at the KDH treatment, the Viega situation, and now with Trev, It doesn't have the Jose feeling about it does it... that I'll run through a brick wall for this man thing... 

 

time will tell and there are things I really like about our season, you could easily make the call that most of the games we haven't put away have not been for a lack of chances, we just haven't killed teams off wich the manager can't do him self 

3 minutes ago, Ukraine Bolt said:

Both Klopp and Pep came into teams that needed a full rebuild.

Enzo has took over a squad that has completed its rebuild the year before and was in some of the finest form in the league in the second half of the season. 

Klopp is really the only one worth mentioning here.

Wouldn't say City needed a full rebuild. Pep came into a City side that finished 4th the year prior and the spine he's relied on since 2019 has been there since Pellegrini. 

Maresca came into a Chelsea side that finished 6th, and we as fans can't really call our rebuild 'complete' when week after week we are criticizing our recruitment. 
 

16 minutes ago, timetowaste said:

Just wish we'd sign a striker. Most of our problems go away if we have players on the pitch that can put the ball in the back of the net

It really is as simple as that. But no, let's look at another wide player or midfielder - better still if they're a 19 year old with bags of potential.

 

9 hours ago, bluetrooper said:

This only works if its a director of football on the same page as the manager. 

I think Enzo will be as frustrated as some of us with the shenanigans going on with players coming in and out. It just cant be easy trying to develop a squad when them upstairs add/remove players on the basis of profit. the talent at the club's disposal is staggering really. 

 

Well, yes, interference from above could be a pain - we don't the details of that. On the plus side, as you say, the talent at the managers disposal is staggering. He is a lucky manager.

7 hours ago, Bob stark said:

It won't make much difference. There is a surefire way to make manager better, give him better player and give him variety. 

We have an amazing squad of talented players.  There is also variety - but our manager often chooses not to utilise that variety. For example, Nkunku? Nkunku is a great player - Enzo doesn't know what to do with him as he doesn't fit the Enzo system.

14 hours ago, Sexyfootball said:

Most inexperienced manager in the PL, slightly behind RVN

Full list (data from Wikipedia)

The most inexperienced manager in the league + the youngest most inexperienced team/squad = we need a grown up GK and a grown up leader at CB

1 hour ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Klopp is really the only one worth mentioning here.

Wouldn't say City needed a full rebuild. Pep came into a City side that finished 4th the year prior and the spine he's relied on since 2019 has been there since Pellegrini. 

Maresca came into a Chelsea side that finished 6th, and we as fans can't really call our rebuild 'complete' when week after week we are criticizing our recruitment. 
 

That team Pep took over was pretty stinky. Full back options were a 34 year old Sagna or a 32 year old Zabaleta and a 31 year old Clichy or 31 year old Kolorov. Outside of Kompany their CB options looked like failures. 

Maresca came into a team that had the 3rd best record since Christmas. He's had a relatively injury free squad all year and is currently in the kind of form we hammered Lampard for after the Potter sacking. Other than probably Villa have we beat anyone impressive? Beat Newcastle when they were sh*t, drew to Arsenal and Utd, lost to Liverpool and City.

We still have to play City, Villa, Arsenal, Liverpool, Utd, Newcastle and Forest. I'd be surprised if we get more than 6 points from that. 

8 minutes ago, Ukraine Bolt said:

We still have to play City, Villa, Arsenal, Liverpool, Utd, Newcastle and Forest. I'd be surprised if we get more than 6 points from that. 

21 points possible and you reckon we will only get 6 points.  You are a pessimist Sir.  🙂

i think we will do better than 6 from those games.

1 minute ago, Ukraine Bolt said:

That team Pep took over was pretty stinky. Full back options were a 34 year old Sagna or a 32 year old Zabaleta and a 31 year old Clichy or 31 year old Kolorov. Outside of Kompany their CB options looked like failures. 

Maresca came into a team that had the 3rd best record since Christmas. He's had a relatively injury free squad all year and is currently in the kind of form we hammered Lampard for after the Potter sacking. Other than probably Villa have we beat anyone impressive? Beat Newcastle when they were sh*t, drew to Arsenal and Utd, lost to Liverpool and City.

We still have to play City, Villa, Arsenal, Liverpool, Utd, Newcastle and Forest. I'd be surprised if we get more than 6 points from that. 

City definitely needed fullback upgrades but that's where it ends. City's spine was already there for Pep to work with. Kompany, Otamendi, Fernandinho, KDB, Silva, Sterling & Aguero. 

Maresca also came into a team that had the worst defensive record in Chelsea's Premier League era, as well as a poorly assembled squad that us as a fanbase can't go 2 hours without mentioning.

Poch was able to turn it around March/April so Maresca should be afforded the same luxury. I think in Maresca's case, not finishing in the Top 4/5 represents a failure in everything about the club. 

 

7 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

City definitely needed fullback upgrades but that's where it ends. City's spine was already there for Pep to work with. Kompany, Otamendi, Fernandinho, KDB, Silva, Sterling & Aguero. 

Maresca also came into a team that had the worst defensive record in Chelsea's Premier League era, as well as a poorly assembled squad that us as a fanbase can't go 2 hours without mentioning.

Poch was able to turn it around March/April so Maresca should be afforded the same luxury. I think in Maresca's case, not finishing in the Top 4/5 represents a failure in everything about the club. 

 

Again, this goes to the board. 

Was pretty miffed we let Poch go, team was on the up and the football was exciting, if not some of his tactics/ decisions strange. Said at the start of the season, evaluate at the end of it but top 4 had to be the plan for enzo, the clubs financial model is built around it. Enzo has until the summer but still hasnt resolved some of the underlying issues with the squad. Wingers not scoring enough, players out of form, unable to beat weaker sides, and our midfield and defence still seem really brittle, Enzo snr hasnt got the best out of enzo junior and the collapse in form over xmas is really unexplainable unless there's stuff going on behind the scenes we're not aware of. 

Anyhow. fingers crossed, we win tonight and start to get results and slip back into the top four. 

 

 

2 hours ago, timetowaste said:

Just wish we'd sign a striker.

Signing a striker is not an issue. We sign one per window. Signing a striker that is good enough to lead the line in prem is a whole different story though.

32 minutes ago, TheCeleryKing said:

21 points possible and you reckon we will only get 6 points.  You are a pessimist Sir.  🙂

i think we will do better than 6 from those games.

With our form and theirs, do you see us beating any of City, Arsenal, Liverpool, Newcastle and Forest?

32 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

City definitely needed fullback upgrades but that's where it ends. City's spine was already there for Pep to work with. Kompany, Otamendi, Fernandinho, KDB, Silva, Sterling & Aguero. 

Maresca also came into a team that had the worst defensive record in Chelsea's Premier League era, as well as a poorly assembled squad that us as a fanbase can't go 2 hours without mentioning.

Poch was able to turn it around March/April so Maresca should be afforded the same luxury. I think in Maresca's case, not finishing in the Top 4/5 represents a failure in everything about the club. 

 

Why would Maresca be afforded the same luxury? Poch took over a team that had barely played together and were so low on confidence following a second half of the season of constant losses under Lamps. Completely different to taking over one of the most inform teams in the league. We were flying from Christmas onwards. Even when we were awful pre-Christmas we never went more than 3 games without a win. 5 and counting for Maresca. Tick tock. 

8 minutes ago, Ukraine Bolt said:

Why would Maresca be afforded the same luxury? Poch took over a team that had barely played together and were so low on confidence following a second half of the season of constant losses under Lamps. Completely different to taking over one of the most inform teams in the league. We were flying from Christmas onwards. Even when we were awful pre-Christmas we never went more than 3 games without a win. 5 and counting for Maresca. Tick tock. 

And Maresca took over a poorly assembled team with the worst defensive record in the club's Premier League history. 

We can attest back and forth but both manager's took over sides that had significant flaws, and this new Poch revisionism isn't going to convince me that before March of last year I didn't witness some of the worst tactics I've ever seen at this football club. Amidst everything, Poch took us by surprise and actually went back to what worked in preseason and we started seeing consistent results. If Poch can do that when the chips were down then I'd like to see if  Maresca can do the same. 

8 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

And Maresca took over a poorly assembled team with the worst defensive record in the club's Premier League history. 

We can attest back and forth but both manager's took over sides that had significant flaws, and this new Poch revisionism isn't going to convince me that before March of last year I didn't witness some of the worst tactics I've ever seen at this football club. Amidst everything, Poch took us by surprise and actually went back to what worked in preseason and we started seeing consistent results. If Poch can do that when the chips were down then I'd like to see if  Maresca can do the same. 

How was it poorly assembled if we were the third best team in the league post-Christmas? You're looking at the season as a whole, rather than looking at the clear improvements and where we were as a squad going into summer. We are regressing under Maresca. Since the start of February we lost a single game in the league. 

You keep bringing up that short period of form, but the numbers hide a lot. We weren't playing any better, just a bit more solid in the middle as poch had to finally play an actual midfield due to injuries. We nicked a few games, had a couple of good wins but it was still a slog, often relying on the opposition missing chances.

1 hour ago, dkw said:

You keep bringing up that short period of form, but the numbers hide a lot. We weren't playing any better, just a bit more solid in the middle as poch had to finally play an actual midfield due to injuries. We nicked a few games, had a couple of good wins but it was still a slog, often relying on the opposition missing chances.

And what is Maresca doing? Inverting Cucu, Gusto and Caicedo with the latter 2 clearly not comfortable in that position when Lavia is not playing instead of trying some of the actual midfielders we have in the squad such as Cesare and Chucky? And don't tell me that they won't work because we haven't actually seen him utilizing either of them in the PL. How are we to determine they won't work without giving them a proper run? Same as Nkunku who we are pushing out the door cuz Maresca needs to play his favourites and refuses to change his system that is clearly not working in the past 2 months. 

Spanking plumbers and delivery guys in the Conference League is one thing but the PL is a whole different beast. Poch might not have been the best choice but so far, I am neither impressed nor convinced by Maresca either.