After a couple of days mulling over whats gone on, posting my disgust at the way Robbie has been treated, digging out Torres for being a factor and genuinely being surprised at the acceptance of the Tosser that Abramovic has put in charge, I got to thinking about Loyalties...

I've been on this forum a long time, discussed, argued, laughed out loud at, agreed and disagreed with other members new and old, I've grown to respect some views more than others and this has come through years of reading and posting, people that I've not understood their ideas about some subjects I have applauded in others and to be fair a lot have been right on occasions I have likely been wrong...mainly down to loyalties and not so much actual football.

This has surprised me though, although many of the people I have long since forotten our disagreements and we know each others ideas well enough (as well as you can through the internet) are pretty much as appalled as I am at the introduction of a

man so hated by the fans of this Club that I find it difficult to even listen to his interviews, a man that has gone much further than

mind games and the usual pre match digs you might find from a Wenger or a Ferguson (both Managers I respect far more than this one) a Man who has dug out the fans and support of the club, a man who credited his now benifactor for our victories under Mourinho. there are some (again posters I've grown to resoect) who actually seem to be able to put all that aside...

.All that and the fact that (I must stop using the word FACT) Robbie De Matteo, the man who achieved great status as a player and surpassed it as a manager was given hardly any leeway at all in a transitional season with a blunt striker and a makeshift defence when he had the audacity to drop the blunt striker for a sh*t or bust champions league game (while sitting third in the league).

Everyone can see that there has been mistakes, everyone can see the football has been attractive but inconsistent unyet results have been there...UTD sould be behind us, the Clattenurg game was our three points in any other universe and that travesty rocked our boat, UTD lost to Norwich on the day we lost to swansea and they would be three points behind us if fairness prevailed, this wasn't a couple of dodgy offside calls it was total and utter cheating.

Anyway I digress,

What I'm trying to get my head round is the title of the post "Fickle or Forgiving" I find it odd to be on the side of the fence that

is unforgiving as I am usually the one to be defending the Manager and I do that more because of my sense of fair play than any other reason.

lets look back

Raniari....I defended Raniari because I didn't like the way Jose was touted while Claudio was doing a decent Job and I thought the team was going in the right direction, I got behind Mourinho when he came in and didn't blame him in ay way.

Mourinho...unbelievable that he was sacked, didn't need to defend him as everyone knew it was a bad decision.

Grant, the bloke that came in wasn't to blame he had never been an enemy, never slagged us off in any way and was pretty unassuming going through his duties and to be fair done ok, I defended him purely on the basis that he was given the Job by the one we must all be grateful to (grateful for sacking two or three of the best managers around) and he didn't do anything less than we could have expected in fact we performed better than anyone could have imagined...you can use any excuse you like as to why that was but truthfully the buck stopped with him and his record was not one that should have led to the sack.

Scholari, never blamed him for taking the job and was right behind him, I felt he got us playing some blinding stuff but transfers that never happened hurt his style of football (Badly needed the Robinho deal to go through) and the Board let him down with no plan B, he wasn't good here in the end and it was not too surprising that he was sacked but again I defended his decisions and his good name (still think he got too much abuse)

Hiddink came in and I was right behind him, very good Manager although as we know steadying the ship is easier espessially under Romans gaze.

Ancelotti, always liked this man, liked him as a player and loved him here as a manager, worried at the way he lost a CL final after leading at half time but I felt players let him down that day and the opposition team was managed in the second half by the Tea Lady, hated it in his first seaon when people gave up on him during the slump, loved it when he turned things rond and hated it the next season when he was expected to take the same aging team on to the next level and couldn't do it, gutted at his sacking.

AVB, didn't want him for a minute, got behind him when he arrived and as I knew his instructions were to lower the age of the squad, we had all agreed on the site that it was a transition season and trophies were not to be expected, I defended his strange decisions, he was sacked, unfairly still but understandble as I think the owner changed his mind on what he asked him to achieve...I felt he gave him the Job of changing things and making the transition but AVB went at that a bit gung ho.

Robbie....what can I say, great to see a Manager I actually had affection for, an ex player that I idolised as a player now he was going to try to get a top four spot so we could play CL next season...hold on he seems to know what hes doing here, we look really motivated, the boys respect him and his dealing with the media is a joy to see...FA CUP...CHAMPIONS OF EUROPE...give him the Job now.

What seemed an eternity later Robbie is given the Job he has earned, the Job he was born to do, we all agree with the new additions a trophy would be a bonus but the transition was in the right hands, a young Chelsea through and through legend that can learn more and more as he brings the team on to the next level, the football we start playing has even the media giving glowing reports and we take off out of the traps leaving the rest behind, a few results don't go our way and the transition is forgotten, the first full season in charge of a group full of new faces and desperately needing a couple more is ignored, a referee decides we should let UTD have three points and we fall behind the top two as our momentum takes a hit and team spirit understandably is diminished.

JT and ash miss some games and we at last see the difference between a hungry Sturridge and a toothless Torres, next game Torres just can't start, but sods law shows its face again and Sturridge is hamstrung, Robbie knows his Job is on the line...he needs to turn this round at Juventus and that means something different, No Danny means he turns to Hazard, a lucky deflection gives Juve the lead but we do show some good signs and could have scored ourselves, pressure form Juve pays off and another deflection puts the game out of reach, still some sharp breaks but some great chances don't produce the finishes they deserve and a third goal puts us and Robbie out.

Robbie was not the man Abramovic wanted but he forced his hand with his ability as a coach and a motivator, that doesn't go missing over night and any good luck we had winning the CL had a share of bad luck that we got past, because we hurdled it doesn't mean it didn't exist.

The Man Abramovic wanted still didn't want the job so he sacked Robbie anyway...then he looked at all the managers in all the world......

I can't get behind the new Manager, I think Robbie sould have been given at least the season and if we didn't make a CL place I could just about understand it, I wouldn't have at the start of the season but after a good start I could understand it.

If he was to be sacked it should have been discussed with him that Abramovic still wanted Guardiola and he would come in next season, not that I wanted Guardiola, I feel he Bottled when Jose and Real looked like real competition out there but I'd take him now.

I rambled on and on but my point is how could people slate some of those Managers I defended, calling them everything from Clowns to Toads, old and past it to shoolboy when all they done was took on a job that was a bit too much for them unyet some bloke we have spent years slagging off has jumped in Robbies still warm chair and its ok?

I will not sing or chant RB name but I will get behind the team while he is in charge.

It's not his fault Roman hired him, he wanted a top job and this is that.

He knows we don't like him but is prepared to get on with it regardless and I'm the same.

6 months aint long.

Great post, Chippy. We've disagreed a lot over the years regarding certain managers, and obviously I don't agree with some of your assessments of our past managers, but a great post never the less!

Great post! I agree with a lot of what you have to say and I too cannot get behind the manager! I am 100 percent behind the team but I never rates bennitez at Liverpool...he seemed to take the plaudits for the work of his assistant manager who was superb. However, I do feel there is more to robbies sacking than meets the eye.

I was perplexed after I heard about the disagreements in the dressing room against west brom. Of course in a club like ours these things are bound to happen against a club that is beneath you but it still stuck out at me. Then I noticed luiz and mikel having a bit of an argument on the pitch against juve. Is it at all possible that robbie lost the dressing room? And maybe that is a more reasonable sacking?

This is of course all speculation but I trust RA he very rarely let's us down and there must be a better reason for it than simply a bad run of games?

The month of November is never kind to us, this is another example of it, but I agree with Fearnley, there must be another reason for Robbie's dismissal. He wasn't Roman's first choice and he couldn't be sacked after winning the champions league, however I feel Roman was just waiting for the slightest thing for Robbie to do wrong and then he had a reason to give him the chop. Disgraceful!!!

I was raging with the appointment of Benitez however I have come round that the team still needs the support not necessarily the manager.

It has been viewed by some here that there is more to RDMs sacking than meets the eye..Could the alledged faceoff with PETR after the game with Juve have some bearing maybe, with PETR maybe speaking on behalf of other players

Excellent post as always mate.

Much the same response as Bluebeard to an excellent post. Have to add I agree with Ferguson saying it's criminal the Robbie doesn't get to take the team to Japan and to become World Club Champions. The honour has no right to be on FSW's CV.

His words might be correct but purple nose has f**k all to do with our club so should keep his whiskey coated beak out of our buisness.

Top post and i agree with most of it.

I actually think Roman got some of those sackings right. Some look better in hindsight because the manager who replaced them was an improvement. Jose and Carlo were obviously the worst decisions. Ranieri, much as I like the bloke, I don't think he was the one who was going to take his to that next level. Hiddink we had no choice about. Scolari had to go, Grant did well as interim but I think he had to go as well.

As for Robbie, this is the least justifiable of all. it seems Roman never wanted him at all and was just looking for an excuse to get rid. If that is the case then what an absurd, irrational way to run a club: give the manager you don't want a squad of 18 players, with 2 (yes 2) recognised strikers, one of whom has been a misfiring misfit since the day he arrived but nonetheless has to play in every match, and sack him 3 months into the season when he doesn't perform miracles, despite not doing much wrong. To compound that even more, to replace him with someone 99% of the fans can't stand, has a sketchy record himself and hasn't exactly been fighting off would-be employers for the past two years. Unbelievable.

I think the adverse reaction to all this is partly because it has rammed home what we quietly knew anyway: that things like passion, rivalry, memory and most of all the fans don't really matter in football any more. Not to the people who run our clubs anyway. Otherwise the club would never have made an appointment that shows open disdain for what the fans think. I will always support Chelsea. "Rafa" I never will and I'm already counting the days until he f*cks off.

I thought maybe someone would explain why it was easy enough to slag off Managers that we had trying to do a job here, that had never slagged us off or mentioned the lack of Passion our fans show or that there was only one team for them (that being one of our most hated) but they are willing to forgive

and forget with our splendid new aquisition?

Ignoring another unscrupulous dismissal and this time to a man who was truely one of our own?

I don't ask this with any question of what his ability as a manager is, as a man and a face of our Club and a man that has come in at Robbies expense to boot.

Just trying to get some understanding.

Great post Chippy.

I have had many an arguement with you especially over Avram, but to be fair he was on a hiding to nothing following Jose though the door.

For you to say you cannot get behind the new manager, given your track record, of level headed fairness, is a statement in itself, and paints a genuine picture of what we have on our hands.

If one of the more diplomatic posters on this forum cannot come to terms with this appointment, then it must go some way to show the general concenus. I know you don't speak for everyone but you have always been reasonable and more rational when it comes to new appointments and giving someone a chance.

The more I rest on this, as each day passes, I give it time, I think I will come to terms with it, but I can't, I just can't and quite franklly I don't want to!

I guess I'm fickle and unforgiving when it comes to Rafa

Edited November 23, 201213 yr by BLUENUT

Great post Chippy.

I have had many an arguement with you especially over Avram, but to be fair he was on a hiding to nothing following Jose though the door.

For you to say you cannot get behind the new manager, given your track record, of level headed fairness, is a statement in itself, and paints a genuine picture of what we have on our hands.

If one of the more diplomatic posters on this forum cannot come to terms with this appointment, then it must go some way to show the general concenus. I know you don't speak for everyone but you have always been reasonable and more rational when it comes to new appointments and giving someone a chance.

The more I rest on this, as each day passes, I give it time, I think I will come to terms with it, but I can't, I just can't and quite franklly I don't want to!

I guess I'm fickle and unforgiving when it comes to Rafa

Thanks mate,

You realise that my defending of Avram and whoever else as I explained was more out of a sense of fair play than anything else and I imagine you and plenty of other posters realise that when I mention respect for other posters who may have been right when I was wrong will realise I understand that some of the Managers I defended were not the right choice for us and as I said at the time, I defended the Job they were doing as it was as much as we could have expected from another thoughtless appointment.

With Carlo and now Robbie my belief is they both woud have taken us further and both could have been great, as could Jose who as I have mentioned I had to find fault with to defend the poor buggers given the job after him...would I take him back now? I would have the special one as my Avatar on my front door, my car windscreen, and tatooed on my dick if there was room as I woud Carlo or Robbie.

The difference for me here is the affecton I felt for Di Matteo from his playing days and his surprising aptness for managing, you could see he loved the place, he is one of us and to look at his place in the Dugout and see that fat smarmy Red twat makes me want to heave.

We all know what new manager effect can do for a few games and we all know this team could be defending better, the fear for me now is January will bring the reinforcements Robbie should have had and a good run will see this appointment last longer than initial fears.

I love this Club but I preferred mid table mediocrity to anything that happens now if this man is in charge.

Edited November 23, 201213 yr by Chippy

totally understand mate and feel the same.

In Chippy we trust.

I thought maybe someone would explain why it was easy enough to slag off Managers that we had trying to do a job here, that had never slagged us off or mentioned the lack of Passion our fans show or that there was only one team for them (that being one of our most hated) but they are willing to forgive

and forget with our splendid new aquisition?

Ignoring another unscrupulous dismissal and this time to a man who was truely one of our own?

I don't ask this with any question of what his ability as a manager is, as a man and a face of our Club and a man that has come in at Robbies expense to boot.

Just trying to get some understanding.

How can you defend the indefensible?

I support Chelsea first, so ordinarily support the team and manager, but that support needs to be earned, so am very afraid that this appointment has got to redeem himself over a very long time, will he do it? only time will tell, but he has not got enough time, so it seems I for one will be left disappointed, but only for a little while, there is always Chelsea.

Great post Chippy, by the way.

I think Robbie sould have been given at least the season and if we didn't make a CL place I could just about understand it, I wouldn't have at the start of the season but after a good start I could understand it.

I gave Robbie to Christmas, a man - I posted - I desperately wanted to be full term manager because he was one of us. But I can't turn my back on my beloved team so forgiving.

I can't under any circumstances see myself ever forgiving the FSW, I'm even at the point where I want us to just plod through the season and finish 3rd for automatic Champions League qualification, if we win any trophies with that fat bar steward in charge it will forever be stained by association!

Not at that stage yet myself mate, I alway hurt when Chelsea lose...that won't change because of a group of people who don't care about our feelings.

Sure looking at the bench and seeing 'him' is gonna be murder but if the boys in blue do it on the pitch then I'll be happy and congratulate THEM for our success.

Spot on Chippy. But then again I usually agree with most of your posts ;).

I will continue to back the team and want them to do well, but I cannot see myself warming to the new man in charge. I found it hard to warm to Avram at the time but I realized in time that he had not done anything wrong and was just trying to make the best of the opportunity that had been given to him. Our new manager is taking a similar opportunity, although I think the fallout from Robbie's dismissal may have created even more anger from the fans than was there after Jose left. That would be a hard enough platform for most new appointments to build on. But RB comes with all the bad history with our fans and club. That is why this appointment in particular is just a total kick in the stomach while most of us fans are still down.

Realistically we won't have to like him anyway. He is almost certainly a short term appointment. If he doesn't turn things around that is a certainty. If the team achieves more than expected (e.g. wins a major trophy) then he will most likely start making major demands of Roman (based on his previous behavior at other clubs). That will probably ensure he is on his way too especially if the real target is in the wings.

Either way I doubt this will be forgotten by the fans any time soon. Sure Roman has brought us the most successful period in the club's history and we are very grateful. But some of us already feel pretty disenfranchised as it is. This latest farce may be tipping point.

I won't be surprised if we see an FC Chelsea in the near future.

Great post mate

Chelsea is my life, ask the missus and kids .......I'm truly let down, now I can have empathy for the Blackburn mob

last season with Kean. These c**ts running the club just dont get it and never will. I am so glad they never got their

filthy hands on the CPO's property, because they can NEVER be trusted again.

F them all, Gourlay, Buck, Abramovich and their latest stooge Fatty Rafa

You said it all Chippy.

I think what is forgotten with Ranieri's and Jose's sackings, both were harsh (or more accurately, incredibly stupid with the latter) but there was a very small silver lining involved in each. In Ranieri's case, it was that we were getting Jose. But in retrospect it should have been obvious from the public courting of SGE and the way the sacking was handled that Kenyon was a total clown and Roman was totally uncaring about feelings or class. Jose's sacking was ridiculous, despite the problems that were barely lurking under the surface. But while we are all up in arms over it, few could foresee the merry-go-round becoming as bad as it has. It was onward and upward in September of 2007.

5 years and 2 months later, Grant, Scolari, Hiddink, Ancelotti, Villas Boas, and now Robbie.

We have debated the merits of every manager endlessly. But one thing we were told over and over (and especially after Ancelotti's reign, which gave us easy top four finishes, silverware, and the promise of competitiveness with some investment in the squad) was that it was the lack of success in Europe that made Roman so mad. But after this week its obvious that even success in Europe doesnt matter. Nothing buys security in this job, not past success, not ability, not achievement with the club, not a promise to revamp playing style.

This latest mess is just the perfect storm of sh*t. Fans are just expected to blindly forget that Robbie DiMatteo is a hero to most every blue (as a player and a manager) and then accept a man whose words and actions insulted us all. A man whose managerial chops are seemingly no better than Robbie's. We're not sheep, we're people. And anyone with a head on their shoulders can see this is the most ass backwards managerial screwup yet. The hastiest firing yet. Probably the most ill thought out replacement since Grant. As clear a sign as any that there is no plan for this club, and we are just floating on in the dark.

Edited November 23, 201213 yr by TheWestwayWonder

The only thing I'm looking fwd to in the tenure of RB, are his spats with Siralex, wegner et al, steadying the ship, and hopefully returning us to the top of the league, starting with Citeh tomorrow ,already on one with Rednose, ......RDM, Chelsea über legend.. Shine on Robbie :-)

We have debated the merits of every manager endlessly. But one thing we were told over and over was that it was the lack of success in Europe that made Roman so mad. But after this week its obvious that even success in Europe doesnt matter.

very likely to be going out of the group stage is 'success in europe' to you?