Don't really agree with any of that but I've highlighted that one sentence in particular because I think it raises a decent issue.

Mikel has to play at the moment because as you say he is our only defensive midfielder. This however does not mean he excels in the role. The passing stats you quote don't mean a thing and I'm staggered people still come out with them! And as for controlling the midfield? I've never seen him control a midfield once. Not even close. Oh, and as for 'ariel dominance '? That ones a joke right?!

When he plays we are a bit more solid granted but when be plays our play is just so slow. He takes an age to get the ball moving and is the prime example of why it takes forever to get the ball forward to our attackers. Against a team who defends deep it just becomes so frustrating as we get nowhere.

We need someone in he role who can play it quickly. Looks around, gets ball and passes. Mikel does the opposite - looks up after getting the ball. He is in the team by default and we really need an upgrade and have done for about half a decade now.

I'm boring everyone to death about this at the moment but it's all about our midfield right now. It's just so flawed and not one combination of what weve got is the answer. The best duo is Mikel and Ramires but that certainly doesn't mean Mikel is excelling and a key part of our future. I think he's had his many chances and the club can do better and I think Jose may just feel the same too.

I expect our midfield to be very different this time next year. Perhaps even by Feb as this nonsense can't go on any more.

 

I agree with pretty much everything

 

I just dont understand Mikels role in our midfield. Hes not a ball winner, and hes not a really a creator. Can someone please point me to a top CM/DM who has the same role in the team as Mikel?

 

What we need in our midfield is someone who can consistently produce this:

 

Mikel cant do that. He doesnt even try to do something like that. He needs 3 or 4 touches before he sends the ball 5 yards out to the fullback.

What do you guys think of him?

 

Personally I've had my doubts for the past 2 seasons about him, when Essien was injured for 6 months I thought he would flourish and I thought he would excel under AVB. But he still didn't, and he failed to do that the season after, he couldn't get himself into the team.

 

I'm not for the Man City way of thinking, I'm now glad we gave him the chance rather than going out and buying De Rossi like City would've done. I think its good we develop a team of players who are there for a reason and have been trusted with. I don't think Mikel lacks quality, I think he lacks mentality at times, he's composed but he isn't aggressive and can be far too passive, in a league like this you can't have that attitude no matter what type of player you are.

 

He's looking good lately and that's crucial, it goes to show something for the long term plan.

Mentality is a harder problem to fix than technical ability.

As Lane and bjd pointed out, Mikel just isn't very good at the things people think he's good at because he's tall snd black.

I've always thought Mikel was/is good enough for Chelsea and I stand by that statement. He's not one of the best DMs in the world obviously, but the only reason for that is consistency, or (like the majority of our players) lack thereof.

 

What people don't realize is that it isn't just Mikel. A lot of our players have a run of brilliant games followed by a run of below par performances.

 

Last season, Lamps was crucial for us in many ways. Same can be said about the season we won in Munich. Now all of a sudden, because he's going through a rough patch, along with the rest of the team, he needs to be replaced ASAP, according to some. Now I'm not saying he should continue to start for us week in week out, but we all know that soon enough he is going to find some form, and when he does, he's going to be crucial for us once again. It happens every season. The only thing missing is consistency. Same goes for Mikel and all the rest of our players (bar JT as he has been brilliant all season).

 

The way people talk about Mikel makes it seem like our team is playing brilliant football at the moment, and the only thing coming in the way of it is Mikel. When we won every game in October, I didn't hear anybody bitch and moan about Mikel, Lampard or Mourinho.

 

When we won the double with Carlo, Mikel was almost always one of the first names on the team sheet. When we beat Bayern in their own backyard, Mikel produced a MOTM performance. Same can be said when he came on against Man Utd in the FA cup last season, when we were 2 nil down, only to almost clinch it and win 3-2- at the very end. Mikel was a major part of that comeback IMO, as was Hazard obviously. What about when we were literally two seconds away from beating the best team in the world at the moment in the Supercup. Wait a minute, was it a Ramires/Lampard partnership? But I thought that was a terrible partnership that never ever works.

 

The only way I would see it as fair to blame Mikel (or any other player for that matter) is if it is clear that said player's performances are not up to what the rest of the team are putting out.

 

When the team just aren't up to it collectively, it is totally unfair to point fingers, IMO.

Mentality is a harder problem to fix than technical ability.

As Lane and bjd pointed out, Mikel just isn't very good at the things people think he's good at because he's tall snd black.

 

I don't know about the black part but yes.

 

Mentality it's who you are, but things can change, experience it can develop. But Mikel is a mature player, it isn't the basic things, it's the way how he deals with situations.

 

But if he can improve on what he already is, there might just be a place in him for this side. But he really does need to contribute more to attack rather than just covering all the time.

I just dont understand Mikels role in our midfield. Hes not a ball winner, and hes not a really a creator. Can someone please point me to a top CM/DM who has the same role in the team as Mikel?

 

i have been informed by fans of his that his role isn't winning the ball, or creating but instead "cycling possession in deep midfield". 

 

tbf he's good at that. he gets it, he gives it short and simple. but i have always thought of that as an "and". like pirlo or alonso are creative but also cycle the ball when possession needs to be kept. maka used to win the ball and cycle possession in deep midfield. their main skill is the roast dinner and the other stuff is the gravy. mikel is an empty plate covered in gravy. there's just no substance to his game.

 

it is a shame he didn't work out better given what we went through to get him. 

I've always felt that he gets too much stick on here. He's fairly solid defensively and is, technically, a very good passer. And it's true that he is good at "recycling possession" - the Manure game mentioned on the previous page being a golden example; his presence allowed us to keep the pressure on them.

 

 

However, he is often very hesitant on the ball and slows our tempo. This is great when we're trying to protect a lead - anyone remember being 3-0 up to Manure under AVB? perfect situation for Mikel. But when we're up against organised teams defending deep, the tempo needs to be higher and he needs to play it quicker. I have no doubt that he has the technical ability to do this as I've seen many glimpses of it, but for some reason he doesn't. I would love for Mourinho to get him releasing the ball faster.

I'm glad we have Mikel-quality on our bench. I really think he'd play more at Arsenal than he features for us.

Frank clearly has a way with Jose starting most games. Would like to see Mikel starting more games and score those goals naturally

I've always thought Mikel was/is good enough for Chelsea and I stand by that statement. He's not one of the best DMs in the world obviously, but the only reason for that is consistency, or (like the majority of our players) lack thereof.

 

What people don't realize is that it isn't just Mikel. A lot of our players have a run of brilliant games followed by a run of below par performances.

 

Last season, Lamps was crucial for us in many ways. Same can be said about the season we won in Munich. Now all of a sudden, because he's going through a rough patch, along with the rest of the team, he needs to be replaced ASAP, according to some. Now I'm not saying he should continue to start for us week in week out, but we all know that soon enough he is going to find some form, and when he does, he's going to be crucial for us once again. It happens every season. The only thing missing is consistency. Same goes for Mikel and all the rest of our players (bar JT as he has been brilliant all season).

 

The way people talk about Mikel makes it seem like our team is playing brilliant football at the moment, and the only thing coming in the way of it is Mikel. When we won every game in October, I didn't hear anybody bitch and moan about Mikel, Lampard or Mourinho.

 

When we won the double with Carlo, Mikel was almost always one of the first names on the team sheet. When we beat Bayern in their own backyard, Mikel produced a MOTM performance. Same can be said when he came on against Man Utd in the FA cup last season, when we were 2 nil down, only to almost clinch it and win 3-2- at the very end. Mikel was a major part of that comeback IMO, as was Hazard obviously. What about when we were literally two seconds away from beating the best team in the world at the moment in the Supercup. Wait a minute, was it a Ramires/Lampard partnership? But I thought that was a terrible partnership that never ever works.

 

The only way I would see it as fair to blame Mikel (or any other player for that matter) is if it is clear that said player's performances are not up to what the rest of the team are putting out.

 

When the team just aren't up to it collectively, it is totally unfair to point fingers, IMO.

 

 

I absolutely agree that there are bigger problems than just any individual player. Equally, however, it's a bit of a straw-man if you that fact to write off criticism of Mikel.

 

The criticism of Mikel is not of his form but of the way he plays. As pointed out above, if the best thing we can say about Mikel is that "he recycles possession" a) that's simply not enough for a top-class midfielder (Leon Britton and Joe Allen do exactly the same job) and b) it's not much of a compliment as we are very bad at stringing together consecutive attacks. Saying "it's not his natural game" to criticism of his lack of drive is absolutely not a valid response because it's the key issue in his failures. 

 

I honestly think that the majority of fans look at his size and nationality and assume he is athletic, dynamic and defensively able, and that shapes their conclusions because there is certainly no evidence that he fits any of those stereotypes.

 

A point to think about though is that Michael Carrick has copped virtually the same criticism for the same reason, yet last season in the absence of a quality sidekick he more than stepped up to the plate and started to add some attacking ability and drive to his normally conservative game. 

Heres a trip down memory lane:

Friday, 20 May, 2005

We should have let United have him.

You could say that.. but who knows if we'd have won as much.

When we look back through everything we've won Mikel has been involved in pretty much akl those finals and campaigns.

No doubt hes made us more mechanical and slower, bit maybe that's served us well in the past. If he was really as bad as some suggest why have none of our managers sold him? Why has he been given a new 5 year deal?

I think Mikel gets caned far too much, especially when our attacking players aren't doing their job properly.

Mikel is a managers/coach player. 100% backed, fans only 50%ish backed, thats is why I trust a manager over a fan.

Mikel is a managers/coach player. 100% backed, fans only 50%ish backed, thats is why I trust a manager over a fan.

Well said.

What other choices have we had? He is the only real DM we have and have had since Maka. So its hardly a shock that he has been played.

You say you trust the manager over a fan well the best manager in the world rather plays Ramie and Lamps over Mikel.

Limited in choice? Perhaps so, but we've had 8 years to buy a replacement and not one manager has thought we ought to buy one. You have to ask yourself why this is?

Clearly they all rate him to some degree.

Edited November 14, 201312 yr by Zola

Dont get me wrong he does a job but i have no doubt we could get a better player. For me his role this season is right, a squad player.

I was there when he scored - he celebrated right in front of us!!  It was amazing, and as it was only my second time at The Bridge (my Mum's first!) it was pretty special.

 

...Just wish I put a cheeky bet on...!

 

- Apologies for the random post, I don't post a lot but read through the threads on here everyday :)

we've had 8 years to buy a replacement and not one manager has thought we ought to buy one. You have to ask yourself why this is?

 

since jose left only one manager has been here more than a year. no manager has had a chance to evaluate the squad and make real changes, they've all had to go with what they've been given to a certain extent. almost every year we have had a new manager come in and "give a chance" to the players we have rather than cull the dead wood. 

 

the one manager who was here more than a year, carlo, saw 4 other midfield options depart on frees at the end of his first season; and i don't believe he had a great say over transfers anyway as there is no way a top class manager would choose to go into a season with the flimsy squad we had that year. 

 

you are well within your rights to think mikel is a good player, but i don't think longevity alone is proof of that, or proof of anything beyond the specific circumstances that led to it. 

since jose left only one manager has been here more than a year. no manager has had a chance to evaluate the squad and make real changes, they've all had to go with what they've been given to a certain extent. almost every year we have had a new manager come in and "give a chance" to the players we have rather than cull the dead wood.

the one manager who was here more than a year, carlo, saw 4 other midfield options depart on frees at the end of his first season; and i don't believe he had a great say over transfers anyway as there is no way a top class manager would choose to go into a season with the flimsy squad we had that year.

you are well within your rights to think mikel is a good player, but i don't think longevity alone is proof of that, or proof of anything beyond the specific circumstances that led to it.

Players at Chelsea simply don't last if they are of no use. If they are less than the best, they are subs. Mikel has always been in the starting team more often than not.

Your point about transfers is also interesting. We know they seem to happen regardless of the manager....We've always been led to believe that Roman and his men love exciting and highly talented players. If they weren't impressed with Mikel personally, or had been advised against him, I am sure he wouldn't have lasted this long.

I am playing devil's advocate a bit here as I personally don't think Mikel is an absolute world beater...but he clearly is doing something right to have lasted this long.

That something, to me is stabalising the play. As I said before I think he makes us much slower and mechanical, but there's no question that he makes us safer, and harder to play against.

I think he is the kind of player that once he has departed, most people will only then begin to realise what he did and appreciate him.

Edited November 14, 201312 yr by Zola

since jose left only one manager has been here more than a year. no manager has had a chance to evaluate the squad and make real changes, they've all had to go with what they've been given to a certain extent. almost every year we have had a new manager come in and "give a chance" to the players we have rather than cull the dead wood. 

 

the one manager who was here more than a year, carlo, saw 4 other midfield options depart on frees at the end of his first season; and i don't believe he had a great say over transfers anyway as there is no way a top class manager would choose to go into a season with the flimsy squad we had that year. 

 

you are well within your rights to think mikel is a good player, but i don't think longevity alone is proof of that, or proof of anything beyond the specific circumstances that led to it. 

Well one things for sure, and that's he's a damn sight better than Andy Townsend 

Players at Chelsea simply don't last if they are of no use. 

 

that's a matter of opinion and presupposes that every single player we have is a world beater. 

 

and there is a difference between "no use" and "not quite good enough". 

 

 

If they are less than the best, they are subs. Mikel has always been in the starting team more often than not.

 

that's not really true. either part of it. 

 

for example: right now. other than ramires our midfield options are definitely "less than the best" and mikel is not starting particularly often. 

 

Well one things for sure, and that's he's a damn sight better than Andy Townsend 

 

l the best manager in the world rather plays Ramie and Lamps over Mikel.

Also plays Oscar over Mata, anyone else over Lulkaku & Ivanovic over Azpilicueta, he does seem to have a blind spot at times, which is quite a worry at times.

Mikel is a managers/coach player. 100% backed, fans only 50%ish backed, thats is why I trust a manager over a fan.

 

only if they agree with you it seems. 

 

Also plays Oscar over Mata, anyone else over Lulkaku & Ivanovic over Azpilicueta, he does seem to have a blind spot at times, which is quite a worry at times.

Also plays Oscar over Mata, anyone else over Lulkaku & Ivanovic over Azpilicueta, he does seem to have a blind spot at times, which is quite a worry at times.

In my opinion i dont think there is much wrong with that. Oscar started the season on fire and does a better job of tracking back than Mata did. Mata now needs to earn his place in the team.

Lukaku clearly has a fitness issue. He struggles to play 90 mins and we need a striker who can play 120 minutes. Also we dont know for sure what really happened behind the scenes. Lukaku said he asked for the loan.

As for Ivan, as i have said on here before he fits in better for Jose, when we need to chase a game and go 3 at the back Ivan can slot in to the 3 defenders which is why Ash or Dave are always subbed. Also tell me one game where Ivan has played badly this season. Dave came back last because of playing for Spain in the summer so Ivan got a head start ahead of him.

Although we all have our favourite players and think certain ones should be starting above other i dont think Jose has made many mistakes this season. I think the only one Jose has made was Newcastle away. He gave players game time because of the Arsenal game and i think this was a mistake. Those players just didnt turn up. I think thats why Jose was so angry after the game. He gave certain players a chance to prove their worth and they just didnt take their chance.

that's a matter of opinion and presupposes that every single player we have is a world beater.

and there is a difference between "no use" and "not quite good enough".

that's not really true. either part of it.

for example: right now. other than ramires our midfield options are definitely "less than the best" and mikel is not starting particularly often.

Only as of a very small part of this season though, isn't it? He's played every season.... hes been starting almost every week, in every season. Jose is tinkering recently and its obviously not working.

Look what happened against West Brom. When he and Mata came on we were much better.

Jose (with a bit of luck) wont risk / cock it up next game, and he'll play Mikel from the start.

We'll hardly be any worse to watch than we were in the past two games with him playing, will we??

Edited November 14, 201312 yr by Zola