The Guardian says he'll fetch 20m. Am slightly torn about this, good bit of business but had hopes that he'd make it here.

But my word, Ake + Traore + Matic = 68.8m. 

16 minutes ago, DonAntonio said:

to answer all: There is no "which were world class" they are world class now , someone saw that and played them, by virtue of them being good enough. Not a coincidence.

Hahahaha. Does the continous drivel that you spout ever stop?

So it had nothing to do with the manager actually trusting them, putting them over players like James, Isco, Yaya etc. 

No. But obviously, they just "saw" the talent and voila, the player became "world class". It takes a lot more than that, mate.

LOL. So because I want youth to be given an opportunity, that makes me a "bad" fan. Just doing it for the cheap likes, right? Can I ask you the same thing. Why are you so against youth? Would Chelseaa not winning trophies for a year or 2 make you it so unthinkable for you to support it? Personally, I have invested my time in youth. In watching the likes of Ake, musonda, Andreas play. I think they are good enough for this level and coming from our academy, they are far more inclined to be a true Chels than someone say, like Costa. But its fine, I get it that Instant success is the mantra today. 

Can you stop your hopelessly wrong stats. Muller broke in at 2009, Alaba in 2011, Asensio, sergie roberto. Thiago alcantara was very highly rated at barca and given a shot. There is a massive list of such youth players breaking through in elite clubs in the last decade. So please, atleast get your facts right.

Also, I Am disagreeing with all the managers, board, the club policy  that we have had in the last 10 years. Now lets break down what I am saying:

Proper Youth integration (just for an example say ake, andreas for luiz and GC over the course of 2 years) would be a part of LONG TERM SUCCESS.

Now how many of our managers in the last 10 years have had "Long term success". We as a club consistently find ourselves in "transition" : another factor showing that we need to look at long term success. So I am well within my rights in claiming (or rather as you put it: moaning) that we are doing something wrong

2 hours ago, Argo said:

Proof? The main source of your argument was Iheanacho and it took me less than 10 second's to think of a player a player we gave similar game time to via a promotion. Ruben has had 32 appearance's to prove himself and he's failed, so what if many were off the bench would be similar with Kelechi.

Convenient to ignore the other examples. Ruben has had 32 appearences spread put over how many years? Iheanacho has had double that in less time. This is as bad as the people who say we gave Lukaku a fair shake. Look every team gives chances to young academy players but we are not at the top of that list. 

 

2 hours ago, didierforever said:

Obviously. I mean Alli and Dier were the highest rated youth players in england, right? Can you stop making up things? 

Also you conviniently opted to ignore the majority of my post which asked you which youth players were world class when they were given their first team opportunity. 

If it means having long term success then sure. Also, I dont think anyone here has said that Ake would be a starter this season. a 20-30 game season (cup games,some PL matches due to injury and suspension as well as sub perfomances) would be the perfect way to integrate him in a team where 2 out of the 3 starting Cbs are 30+

Apparently Conte was happy to sell him, Emanalo less so. You'd think he's good enough for those 25 appearances but can't really argue with Conte wanting the money instead 

18 minutes ago, Deino said:

The Guardian says he'll fetch 20m. Am slightly torn about this, good bit of business but had hopes that he'd make it here.

But my word, Ake + Traore + Matic = 68.8m. 

In other words, one Alex Sandro

1 minute ago, TheChelseaBlues said:

Convenient to ignore the other examples. Ruben has had 32 appearences spread put over how many years? Iheanacho has had double that in less time. This is as bad as the people who say we gave Lukaku a fair shake. Look every team gives chances to young academy players but we are not at the top of that list. 

 

Apparently Conte was happy to sell him, Emanalo less so. You'd think he's good enough for those 25 appearances but can't really argue with Conte wanting the money instead 

And why has he had double? Because he's earned it by making the most of chances when they were given, i can't remember his name but another young player made his debut at the same time as Iheanacho but hasn't been seen since. Chalobah is trusted by Conte to come on and see games out, why? Because he showed he could.

If Ruben or another young player is playing sh*t, how many repetitive games do they "deserve" to try and coax some form out of them? I get the want for youth, i do, but the sheer overhyping of even poor one's is getting ridiculous, i don't go on the youth section much on here but i wonder if i do if Fankaty Dabo will be getting talked up as the next Maldini.

As much as I don't really rate RLC all that much, he's barely even had a chance to be deemed "playing sh*t". 2 minutes at the end of games, and a few appearances against league 1/2 sides isn't enough

54 minutes ago, Zeta said:

As much as I don't really rate RLC all that much, he's barely even had a chance to be deemed "playing sh*t". 2 minutes at the end of games, and a few appearances against league 1/2 sides isn't enough

Everytime he's played in the PL bar twice he's been crap.

This deal is similar to the Bertrand deal a few years back. I don't begrudge the player at all. You gotta play particularly in a world cup year. 

I do however once again begrudge our terrible system of integrating youth. This is a young, homegrown, left footed, versatile full Dutch international. If that isn't enough. What is?

3 hours ago, didierforever said:

Hahahaha. Does the continous drivel that you spout ever stop?

So it had nothing to do with the manager actually trusting them, putting them over players like James, Isco, Yaya etc. 

No. But obviously, they just "saw" the talent and voila, the player became "world class". It takes a lot more than that, mate.

LOL. So because I want youth to be given an opportunity, that makes me a "bad" fan. Just doing it for the cheap likes, right? Can I ask you the same thing. Why are you so against youth? Would Chelseaa not winning trophies for a year or 2 make you it so unthinkable for you to support it? Personally, I have invested my time in youth. In watching the likes of Ake, musonda, Andreas play. I think they are good enough for this level and coming from our academy, they are far more inclined to be a true Chels than someone say, like Costa. But its fine, I get it that Instant success is the mantra today. 

Can you stop your hopelessly wrong stats. Muller broke in at 2009, Alaba in 2011, Asensio, sergie roberto. Thiago alcantara was very highly rated at barca and given a shot. There is a massive list of such youth players breaking through in elite clubs in the last decade. So please, atleast get your facts right.

Also, I Am disagreeing with all the managers, board, the club policy  that we have had in the last 10 years. Now lets break down what I am saying:

Proper Youth integration (just for an example say ake, andreas for luiz and GC over the course of 2 years) would be a part of LONG TERM SUCCESS.

Now how many of our managers in the last 10 years have had "Long term success". We as a club consistently find ourselves in "transition" : another factor showing that we need to look at long term success. So I am well within my rights in claiming (or rather as you put it: moaning) that we are doing something wrong

Honestly I can't be bothered with your bollox and little passive aggressive insults your just f**king cheeky in my opinion and not easy to discuss things with let's just leave it at that, you don't know how to run a football club, stop pretending you do. 

I gave you the reasons why we don't play youth and it's been touched on by many pundits and ex players as well, you want to live in your own world where you go round in circles not to address the main reason that's fine.

You know what's funny you care so much about youth can I ask where youre from? I grew up with kids from my area being in the Chelsea academy, I've been on countless nights out with academy players, my mate was even in the scouting set up for 5 years, and you know what not one of them I met or was acquainted with is even in the PL now because it doesn't work out like that in football it's so rare an academy player breaks through at a high level club like 1 in 10000. 

If anyone should have a fuxking interest in youth  it's me because I've been around so many youth players growing up,not just Chelsea, Tottenham, Arsenal.

 I just don't think you've been round that world and that's why you hold these dillusions, and I'm not pulling rank or showing off you just don't get it how youth systems work and it signals someone who knows everything about football online and from far away if I'm wrong please correct me.

I've seen the process and I know how things play out so it doesn't bother me how a player gets his chance if a player is good he will get seen even if he was in China, case in point Barca now want Paulinho and he has played himself back in to Brazil...from china.

Kante was in the third tier of French football  4 years ago, not every f**king youth player needs a start with the league champions to make it, if you're good you will be seen there are scouts fuxking everywhere.

So if you're worried about the players...don't and if you're worried about the club we are the most successful English team of the last decade so we don't need you with your very limited youth system insight to sort it all out by moaning every other day about youth. 

You talk about missing points and conveniently missing things, where are all our top youth players we gave away? None of them are better than our current squad, and if they develop on loan at a club that plays them every game why is  that fuxking worse  than "getting a chance" here and there with us.

We want good players whether we develo them or a loan club or we sell with a buy back clause how the duck does that "improve the team long term" you're chatting bollox that you aren't qualified to talk about and are so matter of a fact withbit.

It's not practical there is no benifit, developing a team for the long run can be done with loans they don't need to play for us till they are ready, guess what Chelsea f**king agree with this point, hence club policy, so your point is fantasy and bolllox you seem to have an unhealthy interest in young athletic boys, because for their career there is no pitfall to being on loan at a good club, it's better than bench warming and getting the odd game and there, there is no problem to the club because we have our huge loan army if good players develop we will certainly bring them in like I think we will see with Andreas a suggestion someone so concerned with youth like you should have suggested is to play a B team like in Spain, that's how they keep developing their youth, not blood in players not ready to the first team especially in a league as competitive as ours.

So I'm no closer to discovering what your problem is nor do I give a toss anymore to be honest I think you just like arguing and need to come to terms with the fact you know a lot less about youth systems than you think you do yet act like a smart arse authority on it with what can only rationally be your internet research.

It's a petty I have to be an arsehole in the hope your know all posts kidding yourself you are some sort of authority on youth, you know f**k all you miss the big picture but in your mind you actually know better than the club and it's managers, and different staff that has been through the club, it's doesn't f**king work that's why they don't do it. 

I'm all for opinions saying the manager could have done this better, a board member could have negotiated one way, this is decisions on one occasion that as humans they make mistakes, what you're talking about is a youth set up with fuxking hundreds of employees just to make it work, club policy, managers tenure strategies...and you fuxking know better, piss off

Seriously you know f**k all let's just leave it at that or you can have the last word telling me how clever you and I won't respond because I'm not here to argue and I don't enjoy being rude even when forces to be by a smart arse know it all,  but I fuxking guarantee you have no real life experience round anything like a youth system, I bet you're not even from fuxking London yet care about the tender youth so much, you're compensating for something mate.  

Edited June 28, 20179 yr by DonAntonio

5 hours ago, Argo said:

And why has he had double? Because he's earned it by making the most of chances when they were given, i can't remember his name but another young player made his debut at the same time as Iheanacho but hasn't been seen since. Chalobah is trusted by Conte to come on and see games out, why? Because he showed he could.

If Ruben or another young player is playing sh*t, how many repetitive games do they "deserve" to try and coax some form out of them? I get the want for youth, i do, but the sheer overhyping of even poor one's is getting ridiculous, i don't go on the youth section much on here but i wonder if i do if Fankaty Dabo will be getting talked up as the next Maldini.

Just to be clear I'm referring to Ake and Chalo rather than RLC. He's been largely disappointing. Musonda is on the verge of following in his footsteps

2 hours ago, DonAntonio said:

Honestly I can't be bothered with your bollox and little passive aggressive insults your just f**king cheeky in my opinion and not easy to discuss things with let's just leave it at that, you don't know how to run a football club, stop pretending you do. 

I gave you the reasons why we don't play youth and it's been touched on by many pundits and ex players as well, you want to live in your own world where you go round in circles not to address the main reason that's fine.

You know what's funny you care so much about youth can I ask where youre from? I grew up with kids from my area being in the Chelsea academy, I've been on countless nights out with academy players, my mate was even in the scouting set up for 5 years, and you know what not one of them I met or was acquainted with is even in the PL now because it doesn't work out like that in football it's so rare an academy player breaks through at a high level club like 1 in 10000. 

If anyone should have a fuxking interest in youth  it's me because I've been around so many youth players growing up,not just Chelsea, Tottenham, Arsenal.

 I just don't think you've been round that world and that's why you hold these dillusions, and I'm not pulling rank or showing off you just don't get it how youth systems work and it signals someone who knows everything about football online and from far away if I'm wrong please correct me.

I've seen the process and I know how things play out so it doesn't bother me how a player gets his chance if a player is good he will get seen even if he was in China, case in point Barca now want Paulinho and he has played himself back in to Brazil...from china.

Kante was in the third tier of French football  4 years ago, not every f**king youth player needs a start with the league champions to make it, if you're good you will be seen there are scouts fuxking everywhere.

So if you're worried about the players...don't and if you're worried about the club we are the most successful English team of the last decade so we don't need you with your very limited youth system insight to sort it all out by moaning every other day about youth. 

You talk about missing points and conveniently missing things, where are all our top youth players we gave away? None of them are better than our current squad, and if they develop on loan at a club that plays them every game why is  that fuxking worse  than "getting a chance" here and there with us.

We want good players whether we develo them or a loan club or we sell with a buy back clause how the duck does that "improve the team long term" you're chatting bollox that you aren't qualified to talk about and are so matter of a fact withbit.

It's not practical there is no benifit, developing a team for the long run can be done with loans they don't need to play for us till they are ready, guess what Chelsea f**king agree with this point, hence club policy, so your point is fantasy and bolllox you seem to have an unhealthy interest in young athletic boys, because for their career there is no pitfall to being on loan at a good club, it's better than bench warming and getting the odd game and there, there is no problem to the club because we have our huge loan army if good players develop we will certainly bring them in like I think we will see with Andreas a suggestion someone so concerned with youth like you should have suggested is to play a B team like in Spain, that's how they keep developing their youth, not blood in players not ready to the first team especially in a league as competitive as ours.

So I'm no closer to discovering what your problem is nor do I give a toss anymore to be honest I think you just like arguing and need to come to terms with the fact you know a lot less about youth systems than you think you do yet act like a smart arse authority on it with what can only rationally be your internet research.

It's a petty I have to be an arsehole in the hope your know all posts kidding yourself you are some sort of authority on youth, you know f**k all you miss the big picture but in your mind you actually know better than the club and it's managers, and different staff that has been through the club, it's doesn't f**king work that's why they don't do it. 

I'm all for opinions saying the manager could have done this better, a board member could have negotiated one way, this is decisions on one occasion that as humans they make mistakes, what you're talking about is a youth set up with fuxking hundreds of employees just to make it work, club policy, managers tenure strategies...and you fuxking know better, piss off

Seriously you know f**k all let's just leave it at that or you can have the last word telling me how clever you and I won't respond because I'm not here to argue and I don't enjoy being rude even when forces to be by a smart arse know it all,  but I fuxking guarantee you have no real life experience round anything like a youth system, I bet you're not even from fuxking London yet care about the tender youth so much, you're compensating for something mate.  

Everyone else argues in circles and doesn't know what they're talking about. You're so much more qualified to discuss this stuff it's a wonder you aren't a manager or club admin

4 hours ago, DonAntonio said:

I gave you the reasons why we don't play youth and it's been touched on by many pundits and ex players as well, you want to live in your own world where you go round in circles not to address the main reason that's fine.

I think I already gave you my reasons. I guess reading and understanding is not your strong suits, are they?

So now people only living in the area can feel attached to the youth. Great. I did not know that.Did not know you were one of those assholic fans who think that just living in the same area/region gives your opinion more weigth. But thats fine, I have dealt with a lot of morons like you. 

There is just so much bullsh*t in your post, that I honestly have my hands full. 

But no issue, I will let time make your fall right on your face, just like the costa fiasco. (Oh, did you get that wrong too, dont worry, you can start another thread).

Just wanted to address a couple of the most bullsh*t things in your post:

"I have seen the process and I know how things play out so it doesn't bother me how a player gets his chance if a player is good he will get seen even if he was in China, case in point Barca now want Paulinho and he has played himself back in to Brazil...from china."

Are you obtuse or acting like one. How does youth come in play here. Talking about paulinho's graph trajectory to justify our youth system is the stupidiest thing i have ever heard. 

Case in point would be: Barca had youth players the like of Iniesta, Xavi, Busquets. They tried to buy the next generation of products (rakitic, gomes) and have failed massively. WOuld have been better if they had stuck around with alcantara. 

"You talk about missing points and conveniently missing things, where are all our top youth players we gave away? None of them are better than our current squad, and if they develop on loan at a club that plays them every game why is  that fuxking worse  than "getting a chance" here and there with us."

Seriously dude. Do you even understand why people want youth players coming through? First of all, just like 99% of your points, the first part is just WRONG.

Lukaku, KDB, Bertrand would all walk in the 1st team.So saying they are not better than our current squad is just wrong at so many different levels. Secondly, when have i said that we should not loan them. I find myself saying this again and again to you, but why do you keep putting words in my mouth. Have i ever said that I am against Loaning them? NO. capital N and capital O. Get it? I want the youth who do well, and can be integrated in the first team, to be done so. Ake and Andreas are going to be good/great players. And integrating them in a team with 2 30+ year old Cbs would only benefit us. Gosh!!! how many times do i need to write the same stuff before it goes through your thick skull?

 

"it's doesn't f**king work that's why they don't do it.

The greatest club team to have ever played was based on "YOUTH". Barcelona 2007-13. So well.... Another hopelessly wrong one. I can also add United to the mixture, one of the most dominant teams. So again....

I can go on and on, since most of your points are just sh*t. But seriously think, it and you are not worth it.

 

 

2 hours ago, TheChelseaBlues said:

Everyone else argues in circles and doesn't know what they're talking about. You're so much more qualified to discuss this stuff it's a wonder you aren't a manager or club admin

Exactly. Everyone who disagrees with him is a moron and simply never knows what they are talking about. Despite giving him facts to counter his OTT opinions.

And apparently anyone who is not from London cant want Youth players to come through. Otherwise, they are "compensating"

By the same argument, anyone not from London cant understand the emotions that the "true" fans felt when JT was giving his farewell speech.

Such gems on the forum.

 

9 hours ago, DonAntonio said:

You know what's funny you care so much about youth can I ask where youre from? I grew up with kids from my area being in the Chelsea academy, I've been on countless nights out with academy players, my mate was even in the scouting set up for 5 years, and you know what not one of them I met or was acquainted with is even in the PL now because it doesn't work out like that in football it's so rare an academy player breaks through at a high level club like 1 in 10000. 

If anyone should have a fuxking interest in youth  it's me because I've been around so many youth players growing up,not just Chelsea, Tottenham, Arsenal.

 I just don't think you've been round that world and that's why you hold these dillusions, and I'm not pulling rank or showing off you just don't get it how youth systems work and it signals someone who knows everything about football online and from far away if I'm wrong please correct me.

I don't know you personally but from your avi i assume you grew up and went out with these Chelsea youth products a decade or so ago. Its clear to see over the last 5 years or so our youth academy has improved 10 fold and the talent coming through now is much stronger. The players back then may not have been good enough, but a lot of what we have now deserve their shot. 

Just because you grew up with Chelses youth players, it doesn't make your opinion more qualified than someone who hasn't. Fact of the matter is, some fans would like to see academy players break through the ranks.

IMO i just dont think our youth are good enough for one simple reason. They are paid too much, too young. RLC moves around the pitch as if hes already a superstar. Social Media and big contracts for young players have killed their hunger to strive for more. Very hard to find a player like Lampard in today's world.

 

2 hours ago, KonaKai Blue said:

Just because you grew up with Chelses youth players, it doesn't make your opinion more qualified than someone who hasn't. Fact of the matter is, some fans would like to see academy players break through the ranks.

IMO i just dont think our youth are good enough for one simple reason. They are paid too much, too young. RLC moves around the pitch as if hes already a superstar. Social Media and big contracts for young players have killed their hunger to strive for more. Very hard to find a player like Lampard in today's world.

 

"Some people might say that I should strive for more, but I'm so happy (wealthy) I can't see the point................"!!

 

Still a Great Song. 

7 hours ago, didierforever said:

Lukaku, KDB, Bertrand would all walk in the 1st team.

Out of interest where do you think Bertrand would play in Conte's system? As he would never work at wingback and Alonso is 100x more suited to the position never mind Sandro. The only place he might work would be LCB but a we already have one inverted full back in the back 3 so 2 would probably be pushing it.

I think it's a short sighted decision if we sell him now, even if we insert a buy back clause. He's been through the reserves and loans, now finally started to establish himself and we let him go the first chance we get? Granted he didn't get much game time when he came back, but he put up a class performance in the FA semi final, that's not a freaky performance. We are barely meeting the HG quota target, yet we are happy to sell him, puzzling to say the least.

27 minutes ago, Argo said:

Out of interest where do you think Bertrand would play in Conte's system? As he would never work at wingback and Alonso is 100x more suited to the position never mind Sandro. The only place he might work would be LCB but a we already have one inverted full back in the back 3 so 2 would probably be pushing it.

Where is this factual "he would never work at wingback" coming from, considering he's a fast, attacking LB....

4 minutes ago, Zeta said:

Where is this factual "he would never work at wingback" coming from, considering he's a fast, attacking LB....

Attacking? He's got a good cross but other than that he isn't very good going forward atall, even more so considering we base a lot of our attacking play down the wing back area's. 

18 minutes ago, Zeta said:

Where is this factual "he would never work at wingback" coming from, considering he's a fast, attacking LB....

28 appearances for Watford at LB, 1 goal, 0 assists

https://www.transfermarkt.com/nathan-ake/leistungsdaten/spieler/177476/plus/0?saison=2015

Edited June 29, 20179 yr by the special one

13 minutes ago, the special one said:

28 appearances for Watford at LB, 1 goal, 0 assists

https://www.transfermarkt.com/nathan-ake/leistungsdaten/spieler/177476/plus/0?saison=2015

He was talking about Bertrand.

20 minutes ago, Zeta said:

He was talking about Bertrand.

Sorry, my bad 

I like Bertrand but for the money (25m+??) and at 27 I'm not sure he's what we need. If we don't sign Alex Sandro i'd prefer if we go for the next up and coming LWB. For me he is an 'attacking full back', just not top quality.

Edited June 29, 20179 yr by the special one

10 hours ago, didierforever said:

Exactly. Everyone who disagrees with him is a moron and simply never knows what they are talking about. Despite giving him facts to counter his OTT opinions.

And apparently anyone who is not from London cant want Youth players to come through. Otherwise, they are "compensating"

By the same argument, anyone not from London cant understand the emotions that the "true" fans felt when JT was giving his farewell speech.

Such gems on the forum.

 

You're american aren't you? Nothing wrong with that just asking, plenty of great American fans in here,  I genuinely think you do this though so you seem more authentic, and yes it does matter a bit talking to kids in the system having a mate who was part of the scouting system you can't learn that stuff on goal.com and it's not to pull rank or show off, I've not done anything clever just been in the right place at the right time, it's to show how someone with no actual experience of how things work is ridiculous when he sets himself up as an authority on it you have no humility or the desire to learn form someone else's view, any time I'm wrong on here I appologise I have no problem with that I appreciate good grace, that's foreign to you it seems. 

Edited June 29, 20179 yr by DonAntonio

6 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

I don't know you personally but from your avi i assume you grew up and went out with these Chelsea youth products a decade or so ago. Its clear to see over the last 5 years or so our youth academy has improved 10 fold and the talent coming through now is much stronger. The players back then may not have been good enough, but a lot of what we have now deserve their shot. 

Was about 10 years ago yes and the youth system has got better but the point is this if a players good he will get spotted anywhere, is loaning him will not inhibit his growth.

I didn't say I've been round youth players to show everyone how clever I am it was to demonstrate if anyone should be invested it should be someone from the area who has seen a few local kids go to the academy not someone who I suspect is anerican (nothing wrong with that) always banging the youth drum to seem more authentic. 

Our youth system is actually very clever and the reason none are in the first squad is we have very good young players but not exceptional ones, and you have to be exceptional to get minutes for Chelsea in today's very competitive league and cut throats environment for managers.

its easy to grasp, sure I like the idea of a kid going through the system and starting, who doesn't, but the way we do it now doesn't inhibit growth nor does it harm us is a club (If we add buy back clauses which we have started to do) so I just don't get the issue.