Shame he was sold and we're stuck with a dud like Oscar.

I always said he's better than Oscar... I still don't understand why Jose sold him?!! It can't be just for defending it doesn't make sense!!

Edited April 15, 201511 yr by Chelsea forever1

I wanted to see him move abroad but I can't help but be happy for him that he's an important part of the United team now, especially at the expense of Di Maria. Always nice to see a smile on his face, except for this week of course.

 

Everyone knows it's only a matter of time before he regains his form. Jose wanted a defensive number 10, and that's the end of the discussion. If he scores the winner this weekend, there will be a lot of blame on Jose's part.

I thought we would be talking about him the way we do about Zola. Never once thought things would turn out the way they did.

Happy to see he's back in form and happier. Universally loved by Chelsea fans and never wanted to leave in the first place.

Everyone knows it's only a matter of time before he regains his form. Jose wanted a defensive number 10, and that's the end of the discussion. If he scores the winner this weekend, there will be a lot of blame on Jose's part.

Very true.'a defensive number 10'?,woe is me.players behind the play at every position is our 'brand' at the moment.I watched PSG and Barcelona tonight.did messi or Suarez track back? Did they fcuk.they are expected to work their bollocks off in the final third.in Suarez it his natural game,with messi,he is that good that he finds his own place on the pitch,which is the way it should be for a truly exceptional player.

now look at us,mata was not defensive enough,the same with Willian,hazard,shurrle and the ball boy behind the Matthew Harding stand.we need a complete overhaul to compete with the cream of Europe.is Jose the man?

Very true.'a defensive number 10'?,woe is me.players behind the play at every position is our 'brand' at the moment.I watched PSG and Barcelona tonight.did messi or Suarez track back? Did they fcuk.they are expected to work their bollocks off in the final third.in Suarez it his natural game,with messi,he is that good that he finds his own place on the pitch,which is the way it should be for a truly exceptional player.

now look at us,mata was not defensive enough,the same with Willian,hazard,shurrle and the ball boy behind the Matthew Harding stand.we need a complete overhaul to compete with the cream of Europe.is Jose the man?

 

Because that Barcelona team play mainly possession football. So the way they defend is that they keep the ball well

 

That Barcelona team will find it very difficult to play a good fast-paced counter-attack team with low defensive line (Jose's trademark team or Jupp Heynckes's Bayern). History shows that well

 

However a Jose trademark team will find it difficult to deal with the team sit-back and also play mainly counter-attacking (Simone's Aletico) 

 

So there is no right or wrong tactic (or in other words there is no right or wrong that wide winger or forward has to track back or defend)

 

Just different manager with different belief (and the personnel he has in hands)

Agree with the above post, as a team, we are not very good at keeping the ball. Cesc/Hazard are good, Oscar/Willian not bad, Matic is terribly 1 footed, get find out quite frequently these days when being forced on his weak foot. When the press is on, we usually pump it down field to the front man and hope he could win the aerial battle. If you can't keep the ball, you have to make it up somehow with defence. The possession dominated system is not perfect either, as we have been Barca could be undone by quick counter, and lose with 70% possession.Jose felt he would do better with more defensive player, it won't change anytime soon. 

Because that Barcelona team play mainly possession football. So the way they defend is that they keep the ball well

 

That Barcelona team will find it very difficult to play a good fast-paced counter-attack team with low defensive line (Jose's trademark team or Jupp Heynckes's Bayern). History shows that well

 

However a Jose trademark team will find it difficult to deal with the team sit-back and also play mainly counter-attacking (Simone's Aletico) 

 

So there is no right or wrong tactic (or in other words there is no right or wrong that wide winger or forward has to track back or defend)

 

Just different manager with different belief (and the personnel he has in hands)

No,you can set a team up defensively or attacking minded..there is however a right way and a wrong way

Very true.'a defensive number 10'?,woe is me.players behind the play at every position is our 'brand' at the moment.I watched PSG and Barcelona tonight.did messi or Suarez track back? Did they fcuk.they are expected to work their bollocks off in the final third.in Suarez it his natural game,with messi,he is that good that he finds his own place on the pitch,which is the way it should be for a truly exceptional player.

now look at us,mata was not defensive enough,the same with Willian,hazard,shurrle and the ball boy behind the Matthew Harding stand.we need a complete overhaul to compete with the cream of Europe.is Jose the man?

Not this clown again, yeah you surely know better than a man whose won Titles all over Europe [NOTE THE SARCASM]

Edited April 16, 201511 yr by Bobbywoodhogan

Not this clown again, yeah you surely know better than a man whose won Titles all over Europe [NOTE THE SARCASM]

Nothing unites a forum like Kevin o troll the man United fans

I miss him.

 

A fine player. An even better man. 

I miss him.

A fine player. An even better man.

I thought you mean Kevin O'Kane at first

Edited April 16, 201511 yr by Bobbywoodhogan

WWWWWWWWWWHHHHHHHHHHHHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY JUAN WHY?!?!?! I GAVE YOU MY HEART!!!!!!!

Ahem, I guess I'm still not over it, but we're not exactly struggling without him.

Shame he was sold and we're stuck with a dud like Oscar.

 

Said dud has played in the majority of the games in the league which looks likely to see us win our first league title in 5 years. 

 

I bet a lot of teams wished they had a dud like us. 

Don't miss him in the slightest. Nice bloke but didn't fit the system and they SYSTEM is what wins you leagues, not individuals. 

 

He couldn't fit in, he kicked up a fuss when he got subbed against Southampton and we cashed in. Oscar offers us more.

A FAR better footballer than Oscar so it makes it a bit sore that he was sold because Oscar was played in his role.

However if Mata wasn't sold we wouldn't have been able to bring in the likes of the players we now have which are so so close to winning our first title in a few years.

I miss him, I'd have him over Oscar every single day of the week but in saying that we are a more rounded and better equipped side since selling him.

A FAR better footballer than Oscar so it makes it a bit sore that he was sold because Oscar was played in his role.

However if Mata wasn't sold we wouldn't have been able to bring in the likes of the players we now have which are so so close to winning our first title in a few years.

I miss him, I'd have him over Oscar every single day of the week but in saying that we are a more rounded and better equipped side since selling him.

 

Does he press as well as Oscar? Does he tackle back as well as Oscar? 

 

People seem to think we play with a free-roaming 10 like we did under Robbie and Rafa...we don't, and we're a better team for it.

 

It's why those pieces on him citing his stats are so flawed - they don't factor in things like workrate alongside a players creativity, and that's what wins you leagues.

They should come up with a 'gumption' stat.

Agreed. Part of this Chelsea game plan now is that Cesc and Oscar switch their positions

 

We multiple times see Cesc play higher on the pitch, even in the box to get the pass from Hazard or Willian

Who step back and cover for Cesc in those cases? Oscar.

I doubt that Mata can play that role

 

You will also see Oscar play "better" and score / assist more in Brazilian team when giving the free-roaming role (and less tracking back)

 

Does he press as well as Oscar? Does he tackle back as well as Oscar? 

 

People seem to think we play with a free-roaming 10 like we did under Robbie and Rafa...we don't, and we're a better team for it.

 

It's why those pieces on him citing his stats are so flawed - they don't factor in things like workrate alongside a players creativity, and that's what wins you leagues.

A FAR better footballer than Oscar so it makes it a bit sore that he was sold because Oscar was played in his role.

However if Mata wasn't sold we wouldn't have been able to bring in the likes of the players we now have which are so so close to winning our first title in a few years.

I miss him, I'd have him over Oscar every single day of the week but in saying that we are a more rounded and better equipped side since selling him.

 

Spot On.

 

That says pretty much what i was going to post so won't bother but I'm now off to the Oscar thread to post there instead!

still like him as a player and a person. but we're on the verge of winning a PL title, something that would not of happened if was still here most likely.

 

he had to go, and we're better because of it. whether some of you like to admit it or not.

still like him as a player and a person. but we're on the verge of winning a PL title, something that would not of happened if was still here most likely.

 

he had to go, and we're better because of it. whether some of you like to admit it or not.

 

 

I'm not sure of that statement. We have Costa now and a much better defensive midfield line-up - whether Mata would have complimented that we will never know but as much as you could argue we are better without him, the fact is we don't know if we would be better still with him.

 

I'm not a huge fan of  Jose and his tracking back obsession - it might well win trophies but it does not make us a very attack minded and exciting team. Jose has a mantra that defence is the best form of attack, I prefer to think attack is the best form of defence.

I'm not a huge fan of Jose and his tracking back obsession - it might well win trophies but it does not make us a very attack minded and exciting team. Jose has a mantra that defence is the best form of attack, I prefer to think attack is the best form of defence.

 

I have a problem with this idea - there is far more to defending and to our defending than tracking back. We are not Stoke City away from home, nor are we the Chelsea side which played in the 2012 Champions League; we don't need to put 10 men behind the ball to maintain defensive stability.

 

Barcelona at their Guardiola-inspired (as a manager) peak were an effective defensive unit, not necessarily because of their strength, ability to hold shape and discipline in tracking back, but because they pressed their opponents so effectively when Barca were off the ball. Barca had the best defensive record in the league for all four seasons that Guardiola was in charge, and bear in mind this coincided with two seasons of Mourinho as Real Madrid manager. They stifled their opponents' ability to attack by basically never allowing them to have the ball, they had huge amounts of possession in most games and allowed the opposition no space whatsoever when they were out of possession.

 

There is not necessarily a dichotomy between being an effective attacking player and an effective defender; Iniesta, who doesn't fit into the stereotype of the Park Ji-Sung style of midfielder, is an effective defender because he has a good understanding with his teammates and presses opponents when he is off the ball. Oscar (and Willian) being good defensive players doesn't mean they are necessarily parked in front of our centre backs or playing as auxiliary wing-backs, waiting to block shots and hoof it up to Costa, it just means they have the stamina and the commitment to contribute to our play both on and off the ball.

 

Mata's problem is that he is, even on the occasion when he actually puts in the effort to defend, remarkably poor at it. Oscar doesn't suffer from this, he is good at both, and just because he is a less effective creator than Mata doesn't mean he is necessarily an inferior footballer on the whole, and certainly doesn't mean that Mourinho made a mistake in choosing him as his starting number 10. I don't think Mata could ever have played for Guardiola's Barcelona, but I think Oscar could well have, despite the fact that the former is the better attacker.

Edited April 16, 201511 yr by PloKoon13

Superb post Ploks, sums up my thinking on this "tracking back" thing that now seems to be the go to for putting down our style of play. The whole of that "best team ever" Barcelonas game was around keeping the ball, then if they lost it every player was expected to bust their balls in getting the ball back as soon as possible, every player tracked back and played a part. And yet no one ever slagged them of for it, in fact they were praised for it.

Edited April 16, 201511 yr by dkw