I don't believe a race, country, generation or football club can be brought to task over its historical behaviour, it can only acknowledge, apologise, learn and move on and while on the 'hear and now' and talking of clubs that don't tackle or acknowledge discriminatory gesture or bahaviour Man Utd, Liverpool and Tottenham are prime current and topical examples.

I saw the program last night and thought it was excellent although I'd have liked it to be a bit longer.  Horrendous what he had to go through in football and in his personal life, but a massive credit the way he's come through all that.

Does anyone know who the club favourite was that he had a ruck with?

 

As far as the rascism goes, as many have said it was a different time so it's hard to say that many of those taking part were anything other than misguided.  My grandad who served in WW2 often used to refer to ethnic people in derogatory terms but he wasn't a rascist or any sort of "scum", he was a bloody good man that lived in a different time.

We need to aknowledge that some bad things went on at the club, that we did have an unsavoury element within our fans but that the club is almost unrecognisable now (for better and for worse) from the one of the early 80's and before.

Not being around in the 70s and 80s I can't really talk sh*t about racist chants in the shed and whatnot, but I think it's more a sad reflection on the era than the individuals involved. I'm assuming there wasn't massive outrage in the papers or on the news the next day about what had been said and done which speaks for itself.

 

Thankfully its all in the past, or at least largely. Disgusting to see that sort of thing still go on in games in Eastern Europe and even occasionally in Italy and other top leagues.

Just watched the doco, i thought it was very well done, Paul canoville deserves some credit for coming through some terrible trauma in his personal life. 

 

One thing that stood out though was some of the claims by Paul himself & Omid Djalili, Chelsea fans were wearing pillow cases with eye holes cut out to make a hood, really?

He also said Chelsea fans threw banana's at him, ive never heard that before?

 

Omid Djalili said it was at the time the NF & C18 were very active, C18 wernt formed until 1992.

 

Anyone else think it was strange that he suffered racist abuse at Palace two years running & around the same time, April?

82/83-83/84 maybe it was a South London issue?

 

Going by that picture i put up of him scoring at Fulham only two weeks after his debut at Palace, showing 1,000s of Chelsea fans celebrating his goal i think Pat Nevin got it right when he said while it happened it wasnt every Chelsea fan.

 

Jonty i might be wrong but in my era in the mid 80s racists chants could still be heard at times but very rarely, sometimes it depended who we were playing & incidents during the game, Wimbledon at home in 87/88 the shed sang "you've got more W... than Arsenal" at the time Wdon were bullying Chelsea on the pitch & the season before smashed us 4.0 at the bridge & both sides never seemed to get on, was that chant pure racism or rival fans trying to wind up the away team? i think a bit of both.

 

The last time i remember a racist chant at a game was at Palace in 90/91, we had Wise sent off after he had a ruck with Andy Gray, our end sang you "black b......." to Gray with a few black Chelsea lads near me also singing it bizarrely, that was probably more to do with the sending off rather than targeting Gray because he was black.

 

Regards the press i cant comment on the 70s but the only time i remember racist incidents making the papers was when John Barnes of Liverpool had a banana thrown at him at Everton & the infamous picture that came from it.

 

 

Canners was a bit before my time so can't say too much. I did see Clive Wilson and Kenny Monkou though...and although I was extremely young, I can't remember any racial abuse being directed at them.

Regarding Canoville, was the abuse happening frequent? The Palace game is well documented but what about other games? Particularly home games? I used to have a video of 6 Chelsea games and included was a Man City game at SB in 1984 (League Cup 4-1 victory. Dixon hat-trick and famous Nevin penalty miss). Well I distinctly remember Canoville going to take a throw-in by the East Stand and everyone there applauding him. The way people talk, it was as if he was getting terrorised at every game.

Edited March 25, 201511 yr by George Mills

You only have to think back to early 80s with songs about Auschwitz at Tottenham. It wouldn't be tolerated now but nothing was said back then. Doesn't make it right, but like other things on tv Love thy neighbour, Alf garnett. Insults both ways Were looked upon as humour.

 

 

Love Thy Neighbour  was satire attacking racism by portraying it in the mouth of an ignorant bigot.  Sadly a lot of the audience didn't quite grasp that!

Love Thy Neighbour  was satire attacking racism by portraying it in the mouth of an ignorant bigot.  Sadly a lot of the audience didn't quite grasp that!

 

The problem with Love Thy Neighbour is that it wasn't very good satire because it got a lot of cheap laughs using racial stereotypes and epithets. Same goes for Mind Your Language, written by the same person coincidentally. 

Canners was a bit before my time so can't say too much. I did see Clive Wilson and Kenny Monkou though...and although I was extremely young, I can't remember any racial abuse being directed at them.

Regarding Canoville, was the abuse happening frequent? The Palace game is well documented but what about other games? Particularly home games? I used to have a video of 6 Chelsea games and included was a Man City game at SB in 1984 (League Cup 4-1 victory. Dixon hat-trick and famous Nevin penalty miss). Well I distinctly remember Canoville going to take a throw-in by the East Stand and everyone there applauding him. The way people talk, it was as if he was getting terrorised at every game.

 

One of the key points of Canoville's story is that the racist chanting he used to receive in the early days faded away, and by the time he left he was widely accepted by the fans. 1984 would have been towards the end of his time with us. I'm going on the book though rather than the documentary (which I haven't seen).

 

This is also why Canoville was such an important player for us. Even though he didn't make 100s of appearances, he marked the change of an era and opened the door for the likes of Gullit, Desailly, Drogba...

There was a programme on a while back called "It was alright in the 1970's" Which featured racist and sexist bits from popular telly shows being shown to a younger audience who had never seen the like.

And while shows like Love thy Neighbour and 'til death us do part, were poking fun at bigots, the language used in them just wouldn't be tolerated now. And as for the Black and White minstrel show, don't get me started, both offensive and naff !

 

The reaction of the youngsters was priceless, especially when Austin Mitchell MP, was doing a piece for Nationwide, where he interviewed Britains top nipple tassel twirler as she attempted to break the record for tassel twirling live on the telly (this was at 6.30 on a weekday night) There she was topless in a pair of skimpy knickers, doing her thing while Mitchell goggled at her, astonishing and actually very funny, despite being extremely sexist.

 

Now up until the early seventies you could buy carpets, tights etc in a colour called n*gger brown. This is no word of a lie, and while we still have a long way to go in eradicating offensive language and racism, I do feel we are at least trying to do something about it. It sounds glib to say, "but things were different then" but the fact is, they were different and there is no point in pretending otherwise.

 

The reaction of most people on this forum to the Paris Metro incident, shows how far things have come. Racism will never be eradicated and it comes in many forms, but I think how we deal with it has improved immeasurably.

Edited March 25, 201511 yr by SHELLY

There was a programme on a while back called "It was alright in the 1970's" Which featured racist and sexist bits from popular telly shows being shown to a younger audience who had never seen the like.

And while shows like Love thy Neighbour and 'til death us do part, were poking fun at bigots, the language used in them just wouldn't be tolerated now. And as for the Black and White minstrel show, don't get me started, both offensive and naff !

 

The reaction of the youngsters was priceless, especially when Austin Mitchell MP, was doing a piece for Nationwide, where he interviewed Britains top nipple tassel twirler as she attempted to break the record for tassel twirling live on the telly (this was at 6.30 on a weekday night) There she was topless in a pair of skimpy knickers, doing her thing while Mitchell goggled at her, astonishing and actually very funny, despite being extremely sexist.

 

Now up until the early seventies you could buy carpets, tights etc in a colour called n*gger brown. This is no word of a lie, and while we still have a long way to go in eradicating offensive language and racism, I do feel we are at least trying to do something about it. It sounds glib to say, "but things were different then" but the fact is, they were different and there is no point in pretending otherwise.

 

The reaction of most people on this forum to the Paris Metro incident, shows how far things have come. Racism will never be eradicated and it comes in many forms, but I think how we deal with it has improved immeasurably.

I watched that Shelly, so uncomfortable.

So who here admits to singing ant-semitic songs? I've been going to the Chelsea since the late 80s and have very rarely heard overt racism. However, all the Jewish stuff has always been a lot more prevalent. It is only really in recent years that I haven't heard it so much. I must admit that I've joined in...perhaps through ignorance. Not really thinking about what it meant. I now realise it's pretty moronic but it was a common theme if you went to the pubs around the ground. It has also been prevalent at Arsenal and West Ham but now they're all moral about what happened in Paris.

Hands-up from me.  I've joined in with that sort of thing for many years, initially not even realising what it meant, only that it was a dig at tottenham.  Then when I knew that it related to a large section of their fan base being jewish but still not understanding why it was the term "y*d" that was being used or what that meant.  Then more latterly because I only associated the word with tottenham and as they call themselves that I figured it was okay.

Now finally I understand that it's not acceptible, to be brutally honest it feels like another part of football banter has died, but then I'm glad that society in general and football in particular have moved on from the behaviour and lack of understanding that was around in the early 80's. 

Change is slow and I'm a prime example of that but it does happen.

I reckon the player that Canoville got abused by was Speedie. Kerry Dixon had a punch up with Speedie as well, its in his book. They probably kept Speedie because at the time he was more valuable to the club.

Love Thy Neighbour was satire attacking racism by portraying it in the mouth of an ignorant bigot. Sadly a lot of the audience didn't quite grasp that!

I understand that, I was just picking things at random. Stand up comics from the 70s / 80s were racist, homophobic, and that was never questioned by many. Ain't alf hot mum also couldn't be shown now. Even only fools and horses had a line where Del tells Rodney to go to the P@"&I shop to get a paper! Now no one is going to call David Jason a racist, but he accepted to say the line.

Edited March 25, 201511 yr by Richard P

Watched it the other night on catch-up service via sky and so glad I did...knew a bit of him as a player when I was a kid just starting following the blues and that sheff Wednesday game in particular...obviously older I've got, the more I heard about stuff he went through, but this doc. Told an even sadder take than I realised...will never understand those people who were so-called chelsea fans and abused him...just so glad he's been able to fight all the setbacks in his life and despite everything, is as passionate about chelsea as ever

So 12 to 15 year old kids were scum were they? or just kids who didnt know any better?

Well said. People do idiotic things when they're young but hopefully mature when they're older. It would be equally easy for us to moralize about Canoville himself as he spent some time in a borstal as a youngster.

Sadly they were. We can't pick and choose who supports us.

The good news is that it's very much a thing of the past. There are no excuses for it.

The idea that people just get swept along with racist abuse its simply an abdication of responsibility. Those people were scum. Nothing more.

What I mean was they were supporting us for their own agendas. They clearly loved to about abuse and used football as a way to dish it out. Therefore in my opinion not true fans as they weren't there simply to support Chelsea.