“Mourinho is a cultural terrorist. He sucks whatever vitality there is in a culture into the black hole of his ego. He is an impressive tactician, to be sure, but when it comes to sustainability, he is all at sea. He is too immature, emotionally and philosophically, to create dynastic success, at a football club or anywhere else. What success he achieves comes by napalming the native culture, and then moving on.

 

Even the most one-eyed Chelsea fans are beginning to recognise that the notion of this man spending ten years at one club is inconceivable. They have realised that any club that hosted him for so long would become philosophically derelict. Chelsea will doubtless rebound in the coming months: with the players and money at the club’s disposal, you would expect that. But there can be little doubt that, when you look at his career, Mourinho has scant comprehension of the motivation written into men’s hearts, and which can sustain itself over the long haul. He understands only the most dehumanising type of culture: the kind that emerges from maligning others while constantly trumpeting oneself — and which typically, with tired inevitability, implodes.”

 

Matthew Syed (The Times, 5th October, 2015)

 

“Ignore, on this occasion, the predictable paranoia over referees. Disregard, too, the glee of those sat waiting for this day, who say this was Jose Mourinho's Kevin Keegan moment, a very public meltdown from a man no longer able to control his circumstances. For at the heart of his impromptu seven-minute address to the nation, to his employers and to the forces he imagines are in league against him, was a statement of truth. Not just that Chelsea would be mad to sack him, which they would. It was Mourinho's observation about the culture at Chelsea that carried greatest resonance.

 

Like Klopp [at Dortmund], Mourinho has earned the right to turn his season around. He says he is convinced Chelsea will finish in the top four. No club with eight points from eight games has managed that in the Premier League era. So either Chelsea's domestic season is already beyond repair or Mourinho has to be the best manager over 30 games that this competition has seen. As would any interim or successor. So it may be too late for Chelsea already but it is not too late to send a message about the changing culture of the club. It is no longer only the fault of the manager. Others must share responsibility, including the players, too. There will be no easy rides. That, deep down, was Mourinho's point. For a man supposedly in meltdown, he made quite a lot of sense.”

 

Martin Samuel (Daily Mail, 5th October, 2015)

 

Differing opinions on Jose from two entirely different journalists, but in essence these selected paragraphs, taken from Syed and Samuel articles in this morning’s papers, reflect perfectly the division that now exists within our fan base. Strange as it may seem (for Syed supports Arsenal and Samuel is a Hammers fan) they have both hit nails on heads and struck chords with many on either side of a growing divide amongst us. Many of you will not be surprised to learn that I have a stronger affinity with the Samuel perspective as expressed here, although I confess that this has a lot to do with my respect for him as a writer on a whole host of subjects, not just on football matters. My judgement is also coloured by the contra view I hold with regard to Syed’s literary skills, primarily when it comes to his coverage of the game in general and his discriminatory approach towards Chelsea in particular. 

 

In short, Martin Samuel’s writing on Chelsea matters is always reasoned and objective, whereas Matthew Syed’s is riddled with obsession, dislike of our club always overruling any desire he may [or may not] have to be fair-minded where we are concerned. However, he has on this occasion, perhaps inadvertently, stumbled on a possible truth hidden amongst all his Mourinho abhorrence - Jose’s missing linkage apropos the creation of a dynasty. Interestingly, Syed immediately lapses back into fixation mode after making this observation, ruling the possibility of dynastic success out completely, because of traits that, quite frankly, apply more to him than they do to our manager. Contrast this with Martin Samuel’s far more sensible assessment, embodied in the words ‘… it is not too late to send a message about the changing culture of the club.’

 

And this, for me, is the crux of the matter - fans either believe in Jose or they don’t. It would appear that he has been granted a stay of execution but, as is always the case with the Roman empire, none of us know what strings are attached. We can only hope that one of them is connected to a crucial plank in those Abramovich plans for the future - development through the Academy into the first team - and this is hauled into place sooner rather than later. A failure to do so would only serve to vindicate Syed and his myopic mania (and he has the nerve to call us one-eyed!) whereas an acceptance of the need for change might just open the floodgates of creativity and dynasty. With this in mind, I’ll leave the last words to Martin Samuel and let them ring loud in everyone’s ears…

 

“It was Mourinho's observation about the culture at Chelsea that carried greatest resonance.”

            

 

I think both have truth within. Jose is as described by Syed but I think he has deserved the chance to turn the season around. Jose is complex and simple at the same time. I think he might be a tiring person to be around. He always insists and tells his views as facts. I'm not sure if I'd like to work under him or beside him.

Edited October 5, 201510 yr by evissy

Heres one from the sun thats far more intelligent,

 

More Mour for now but he's hose'd down by Abramo threatening to wield his chopper next time !!

Edited October 5, 201510 yr by will12

How many Mour Jose threads is there gonna be between now and the next game, pun very much intended

How many Mour Jose threads is there gonna be between now and the next game, pun very much intended

 

Apparently you can never have enough threads all talking about the same thing Bobby. 

I do think Samuels is fair and objective, even his criticism is always constructive...Syed on the hand is an ar*ehole.

 

I think Mourinho has earned the right to turn it round, and would love to see the club stick with a manager during a sustained dodgy patch, it would certainly be a novelty.

 

I vote for Samuels.

To try and be serious for a moment. This may be part of life's learning journey for Jose. He's having a dose of what others have had, failing is alien to him in many ways.

After this, all being well, the team will be fine and Jose may be a better person.

Edited October 5, 201510 yr by Droogba

After this, all being well, the team will be fine and Jose may be a better person.

 If everything turns out OK, things will get better.

 

On the other hand....

 

Not being cynical, but your optimism made me laugh. I hope you're right. José has to be given the opportunity to fix things. The problem is, there's so much wrong at the moment, it's knowing where to start. Every team is up for it against us, every team (bar the Arse) seems to produce their best display of this or last season, and even when we take the lead they can smell our vulnerability. We are so fragile, as José puts it.

I get the impression that neither José nor the players are prepared to play the way they did after Christmas to secure the title, as it was too attritional, didn't allow them to play with any freedom, and took a lot out of the team, leaving them burned out by the summer.

Whatever tactics have been put in place of that approach (and noone watching us this season can identify what they hell they are) have been a total failure, and Jose must be tempted to revert back to the tactics that won the league, but the players appear either unwilling or mentally and physically incapable of carry them out. Solid defence and a consistently brilliant Hazard saw us home last season. They've been replaced by shambolic defending and a woefully off form Hazard, with nothing else to fall back on.

To try and be serious for a moment. This may be part of life's learning journey for Jose. He's having a dose of what others have had, failing is alien to him in many ways.

After this, all being well, the team will be fine and Jose may be a better person.

Lets hope it works out for the best.

Right now he is a Novice in Failure. He doesnt want to become a Specialist!!

It's all in Mourinho's hands. No amount of blame on referees, fixtures and transfers can absolve him from his responsibility as the manager of Chelsea FC.

If he fails to win in October, then he has no one but himself to blame.

I finished that Martin Samuel article a little while ago and was going to post it. I too rate him very highly as an objective sports journalist.

Something else pertinent in his article was the listing of managers who have been sacked shortly after tremendous success. Ancelotti gone a season after winning the double because he finished second. RDM gone within half a year of winning the CL/FA double. Now Mourinho possible gone 2 months into a season after he won the double?

Absurd, and who would want to replace him? Klopp? Don't be silly, after what he experienced he won't come near. Ancelotti? He won't be dumb enough to think Roman has actually changed if Mourinho goes soon. Guardiola? Wasn't his objection the first time the lack of support a manager gets here? Etc etc

What does a CFC manager have to do to be able to survive a bad season?

It's all in Mourinho's hands. No amount of blame on referees, fixtures and transfers can absolve him from his responsibility as the manager of Chelsea FC.

If he fails to win in October, then he has no one but himself to blame.

So you feel the board and players have no responsibility what so ever? Lol who plays on the pitch? Who sanctions the players Mourinho can have in his squad?

We should rename the forum Jose Mourinho. Com what's with all the threads its getting confysing . in fairness I am easily confused

Apart from pep is there a more successful modern day manager?? I don't think so. Keep the faith with Jose to see us through this sticky spot!!

Apart from pep is there a more successful modern day manager?? I don't think so. Keep the faith with Jose to see us through this sticky spot!!

No one wants Jose sacked but if the performances/results don't improve it will be inevitable.

If everything turns out OK, things will get better.

 

On the other hand....

 

Not being cynical, but your optimism made me laugh. I hope you're right. José has to be given the opportunity to fix things. The problem is, there's so much wrong at the moment, it's knowing where to start. Every team is up for it against us, every team (bar the Arse) seems to produce their best display of this or last season, and even when we take the lead they can smell our vulnerability. We are so fragile, as José puts it.

I get the impression that neither José nor the players are prepared to play the way they did after Christmas to secure the title, as it was too attritional, didn't allow them to play with any freedom, and took a lot out of the team, leaving them burned out by the summer.

Whatever tactics have been put in place of that approach (and noone watching us this season can identify what they hell they are) have been a total failure, and Jose must be tempted to revert back to the tactics that won the league, but the players appear either unwilling or mentally and physically incapable of carry them out. Solid defence and a consistently brilliant Hazard saw us home last season. They've been replaced by shambolic defending and a woefully off form Hazard, with nothing else to fall back on.

I'm ever the optimist.

I finished that Martin Samuel article a little while ago and was going to post it. I too rate him very highly as an objective sports journalist.

Something else pertinent in his article was the listing of managers who have been sacked shortly after tremendous success. Ancelotti gone a season after winning the double because he finished second. RDM gone within half a year of winning the CL/FA double. Now Mourinho possible gone 2 months into a season after he won the double?

Absurd, and who would want to replace him? Klopp? Don't be silly, after what he experienced he won't come near. Ancelotti? He won't be dumb enough to think Roman has actually changed if Mourinho goes soon. Guardiola? Wasn't his objection the first time the lack of support a manager gets here? Etc etc

What does a CFC manager have to do to be able to survive a bad season?

Mate running football clubs is a result oriented business. Its same everywhere in the top clubs in Europe. Madrid have had 13 managers in 15yrs, Barca have sacked managers, Utd moyes etc. In the end its up to the manager to make it work irrespective if the board meets your transfer target or not. Tbh even if we didn't sign our primary targets we shouldn't be languishing in 16th position on the table, so the manager is rightly under pressure, its for him to get his systems/personnel on the pitch right and get his players focused. Hope Jose does this and we improve

Mate running football clubs is a result oriented business. Its same everywhere in the top clubs in Europe. Madrid have had 13 managers in 15yrs, Barca have sacked managers, Utd moyes etc. In the end its up to the manager to make it work irrespective if the board meets your transfer target or not. Tbh even if we didn't sign our primary targets we shouldn't be languishing in 16th position on the table, so the manager is rightly under pressure, its for him to get his systems/personnel on the pitch right and get his players focused. Hope Jose does this and we improve

Sorry mate but how can u use man utd as an example of how clubs sack managers???? They stuck by fergie through thick and thin. What a sh*t example

Sorry mate but how can u use man utd as an example of how clubs sack managers???? They stuck by fergie through thick and thin. What a sh*t example

Mate relax and think it through. In 20 more yrs, fergie was successful, if he wasn't he would have been sacked, simple or why do think moyes was sacked?

..... why do think moyes was sacked?

 

must have been because he didn't win the double the year before....

Mate relax and think it through. In 20 more yrs, fergie was successful, if he wasn't he would have been sacked, simple or why do think moyes was sacked?

I could be wrong here but I think moyes had a better win ratio than lvg until recently and lvg has spent loads more money. Moyes was on a hiding to nothing after fergie. Whoever went there after him was gonna find it tough. I agree fergie was always successful but who's to say Jose won't get 3rd and win the fa cup this year. Would that be a bad season from where we are now? Nothing good can come of sacking Jose right now. We have to trust him to get us out of this mess and move on. We can't demand a change of manager every time we lose a few games and play bad!

I could be wrong here but I think moyes had a better win ratio than lvg until recently and lvg has spent loads more money. Moyes was on a hiding to nothing after fergie. Whoever went there after him was gonna find it tough. I agree fergie was always successful but who's to say Jose won't get 3rd and win the fa cup this year. Would that be a bad season from where we are now? Nothing good can come of sacking Jose right now. We have to trust him to get us out of this mess and move on. We can't demand a change of manager every time we lose a few games and play bad!

 

When do you pull the plug though ? After another loss to Villa ? 2 more loses on the trot ? CL exit ? No silverware this season ? Not finishing top 4 ? Relegation ? I bet the board has a minimum expectation!

Heres one from the sun thats far more intelligent,

 

More Mour for now but he's hose'd down by Abramo threatening to wield his chopper next time !!

 

 

The Sun and Intelligent used in a sentence that doesn't include the word NOT??  

When do you pull the plug though ? After another loss to Villa ? 2 more loses on the trot ? CL exit ? No silverware this season ? Not finishing top 4 ? Relegation ? I bet the board has a minimum expectation!

Welcome to the forum will12!! Obviously if we are bottom at Xmas, out the champions lge etc then yeah he can't have a job. It's 8 games into the lge, yes I know we are playing sh*t but form is temporary, class is permanent!! We are still in the lge cup and have 3 points after 2 champions lge games. I totally agree we are well out of form but it's a tad hasty to sack him now. We made this mistake last time after we drew with rosenborg at home. If we sack him now and get somebody else in its still the same out of form players the new boss gets. Keep the faith!!!

The first excerpt made no sense to me, what culture or philosophy is the author referring to? He spent two large paragraphs talking about how Jose ruins a culture and a philosophy without naming what exactly they are.

 

I'm not surprised to hear he is also an Arsenal fan, looks like just another excuse to blast Jose without giving any evidence or justification for it. What philosophy has he ruined at the club? What has he done to the culture? We're only a few months on from a league and league cup double.

 

Who may I ask is better for a clubs philosophy or culture in the prem right now? Van Gaal, who numerous players have spoken out against since he came to the league? Pellegrini who had his star players serially under-perform last season? Wenger who hasn't won a title in over a decade who has a record of his star players leaving him at the first opportunity?

 

Jose's philosophy is winning, we may not be winning right now but we will again, and will do so long before that specialist in failure gets his skeletal talons anywhere near a league title again.

Edited October 7, 201510 yr by Jonty