Welcome Pato

[ShedEnder91]

We waited what, nine weeks? to see Pato make his first appearance in a Chelsea shirt. His contribution to yesterday's game, scoring a confidence boosting penalty and playing a part in both Pedro's goals fully justified his selection over a fatigued and non-match ready Traore. In fact I'd have liked to have seen Pato start yesterday rather than Remy

 

Furthermore, I think it's been established that Traore has a future with the club, not so Pato. Yesterday's runout against a piss-poor Villa side was a nice little introduction and indicates that a fully fit Pato may just possibly have a future here. The only way to know for sure one way or the other is to give him more playing time between the end of the season.We might and might not have a hell of a player on our hands, but if he doesn't get time on the pitch, we're never going to know either way.

 

None of the above so much at hints at Pato being an automatic starter at the Liberty, but simply that he needs more playing time against more testing opposition in order to make a realistic assessment of the player.

 

There's a very good argument for starting Pato and it's what might see him start against Swansea, but none of that trumps the fact that Bertrand Traore has still only played 194 minutes of Premier League football and needs more. His record is already superb but I think we need to start giving young players like him priority over who had their chance and ended up having to go back down a level.

 

Pato is not a player we've signed on his recent record, he's a player signed on the basis of who he was five years ago. 

[Upsetter]

There's a very good argument for starting Pato and it's what might see him start against Swansea, but none of that trumps the fact that Bertrand Traore has still only played 194 minutes of Premier League football and needs more. His record is already superb but I think we need to start giving young players like him priority over who had their chance and ended up having to go back down a level.

 

Pato is not a player we've signed on his recent record, he's a player signed on the basis of who he was five years ago. 

Pato is a player we've signed as a cheap, low-risk option. If it doesn't work out we'll have wasted comparatively little, and if it does, then we'll have a bargain on our hands. We're not going to know for sure either way if Pato doesn't get playing time.

 

Secondly it's not a cast of Traore or Pato. BOTH players could do with more playing time. Whether he or Taore should start at Swansea is debatable. Depending how things pan out, it would be nice to see Traore start with Pato brought on at some stage, or vice versa, with Remy either nowhere neither the squad or as an emergency, hopefully unused sub.

 

It's all very well talking about giving young players priority, but Pato is currently here on loan presumably with a view to making the signing permanent if it's felt that he can make a significant contribution. If we don't at least give him the opportunity to show what he can hopefully do, the loan will have been every bit as pointless as so many were predicting from the word go.

[ShedEnder91]

Pato is a player we've signed as a cheap, low-risk option. If it doesn't work out we'll have wasted comparatively little, and if it does, then we'll have a bargain on our hands. We're not going to know for sure either way if Pato doesn't get playing time.

 

Secondly it's not a cast of Traore or Pato. BOTH players could do with more playing time. Whether he or Taore should start at Swansea is debatable. Depending how things pan out, it would be nice to see Traore start with Pato brought on at some stage, or vice versa, with Remy either nowhere neither the squad or as an emergency, hopefully unused sub.

 

It's all very well talking about giving young players priority, but Pato is currently here on loan presumably with a view to making the signing permanent if it's felt that he can make a significant contribution. If we don't at least give him the opportunity to show what he can hopefully do, the loan will have been every bit as pointless as so many were predicting from the word go.

 

Again, I see your point but every minute you give someone like Pato you're taking it away from Traore and those minutes become even more scant when Costa returns.

 

I just don't like to see us signing players simply because of who they were five years ago and then giving them minutes that could go to a 20 year old who has done everything asked of him since signing. I think it's a terrible message to send to every young player associated with this club and will reinforce the belief that young players don't get fair chances here.

 

In fact signing Pato represents everything I really don't like about the modern Chelsea.

[axman2526]

But then where does Kenedy get minutes?

Kenedy, Loftus-Cheek and Traore are part of the future we should be trying to build. Sticking Pato in on the strength of his name is just us repeating the same old mistakes.

A few options, plays at left back, drop rlc back in place of cesc and put kenedy in the 3, put him in instead of willian or Pedro.

[RMH]

Dropping Fabregas to give Pato minutes? I hope not.

[Ballack & Blu]

Pato trying to rediscover what he had in abundance isn't bad for us, cos the guy is proven at international level, and had it in spades, which might br good for us......

[ShedEnder91]

Pato trying to rediscover what he had in abundance isn't bad for us, cos the guy is proven at international level, and had it in spades, which might br good for us......

 

When did he last have it in abundance though?

 

Fair enough he was proven at international level but the guy hasn't played for Brazil in two and a half years. He hasn't scored a competitive international goal in almost FIVE years. 

[Ballack & Blu]

When did he last have it in abundance though?

 

Fair enough he was proven at international level but the guy hasn't played for Brazil in two and a half years. He hasn't scored a competitive international goal in almost FIVE years. 

Knock him if you want, but he is ours atm, so lets roll with him,  imagine having Falcao and Pato at their peak, and they were our subs, strange world we watch fly by...

[brownindian]

Did we sign Pato ? I thought he was on loan till the end of this season. There is a good chance that Pato will not be here next season while Traore will. So do we really want to stunt the development of our own to make our loanee better ? Unless we have a plan to buy Pato, I do not see why we need to give him more minutes over Traore. 

[ShedEnder91]

Knock him if you want, but he is ours atm, so lets roll with him,  imagine having Falcao and Pato at their peak, and they were our subs, strange world we watch fly by...

 

I'm not knocking him. I'm pointing out that he's not really played at the highest level for almost half a decade and it might be better to look to the future rather than hope for the past to come around again.

[RIP Mourinho]

I'd be happy with Costa, Traore and Pato as the three strickers next season. I just pray to any god that Remy never plays for us again. Woeful baller. 

[Chelsbear]

I'd be happy with Costa, Traore and Pato as the three strickers next season. I just pray to any god that Remy never plays for us again. Woeful baller.

I wouldn't.

We need a better striker than Pato. Every top team should have at least 2 top strikers.

[lesblues]

Suarez and ? Aguero and ? Lewandoski and ? Rooney and ? Benzema and ? ( can't wait for CR is a striker) Giroud?Welbeck?Walcott and ?. Top teams there, I stand corrected.

[Chelsbear]

Suarez and ? Aguero and ? Lewandoski and ? Rooney and ? Benzema and ? ( can't wait for CR is a striker) Giroud?Welbeck?Walcott and ?. Top teams there, I stand corrected.

United are hardly in the top teams anymore. Regardless they have Martial who is a French international striker so try again before trying to sound clever troll.

[Chelsbear]

Actually don’t bother, you are one for the ignore list.

[lesblues]

Top kek. I can only fathom the source of that post of yours.

[ducavis]

We don't need two top forwards considering we won't be playing in Europe. As things stand; Costa starts every game if he is fit, use the Cups to give Traore starts. Unless we intend to play 2 forwards regularly; and i am not referring to sticking one on the wings with no real plan, it is a waste of resources

[lesblues]

United are hardly in the top teams anymore. Regardless they have Martial who is a French international striker so try again before trying to sound clever troll.

Utd is hardly a top team?. At least I'm a 'clever' troll. Can live with that. Edited April 4, 2016 by lesblues

[Blueborn94]

I have been reading this forum for 2 years now and have never made an account however after reading very negative post's over the past few months I have created an account to express my opinion, I was really impressed with him against villa, took the penalty well, his link up play was positive especially for pedro goal and his runs where direct and forward. I can understand everyone's frustration with traore not playing but you have to realise he has just come back from international duty and was obviously tired and not match ready. I'm sure he will start against swansea.

[ShedEnder91]

We don't need two top forwards considering we won't be playing in Europe. As things stand; Costa starts every game if he is fit, use the Cups to give Traore starts. Unless we intend to play 2 forwards regularly; and i am not referring to sticking one on the wings with no real plan, it is a waste of resources

 

Conte does seem to like playing two up-top so it's definitely a possibility.

[lesblues]

Conte played what system suited his team most. He experimented with 433 442( flat and with advanced wingers) 343 before lack of quality wingers made him( even played marchissio as a right winger vs madrid) settle for 352. it's not a given cert. he would play with two strikers, still a possibility though.

[AcesHigh]

When did he last have it in abundance though?

 

Fair enough he was proven at international level but the guy hasn't played for Brazil in two and a half years. He hasn't scored a competitive international goal in almost FIVE years. 

He had it in abundance last year, playing for São Paulo.

"oh, but that's the brazilian league!"

well, so why the previous year, playing for Corinthians, he was so poor that Corinthians LOANED him (paying half his salary) to their cross city rivals? If the brazilian league is so poor that Pato could just do well anywhere, Corinthians would not have just loaned him to São Paulo, where he also struggled at first and then started to score again under Osorio (currently Mexico's NT coach)

and that in a club that is going through some very hard internal political turmoil (brazilian clubs do not have owners... fans are the owners and they elect presidents and councillors, so there is a lot of politics in them), including the ex-president fist-fighting with the current one who was recording him without his knowledge and such... political turmoils which were affecting the entire staff and players. And even so Pato was crucial to take São Paulo to a decent position in the 2015 league.

 

as for accusations that brazilian league is not so "physical"... well, it´s not so fast because there is a trade between speed and endurance. Brazilian clubs play in average 15 more matches in a year than European clubs. (because of the state leagues). So the physical preparation at the start of the year takes that into consideration. They prepare players to play more matches, running less in each match. I guess in the end of the year, the "mileage" ends up being the same for european and brazilian players. Brazilian players who return to Brazil need a lot of time to re-adapt to the many more matches played in Brazil, and several struggle and do not re-adapt at all.

Edited April 4, 2016 by AcesHigh

[ShedEnder91]

He had it in abundance last year, playing for São Paulo.

"oh, but that's the brazilian league!"

well, so why the previous year, playing for Corinthians, he was so poor that Corinthians LOANED him (paying half his salary) to their cross city rivals? If the brazilian league is so poor that Pato could just do well anywhere, Corinthians would not have just loaned him to São Paulo, where he also struggled at first and then started to score again under Osorio (currently Mexico's NT coach)

and that in a club that is going through some very hard internal political turmoil (brazilian clubs do not have owners... fans are the owners and they elect presidents and councillors, so there is a lot of politics in them), including the ex-president fist-fighting with the current one who was recording him without his knowledge and such... political turmoils which were affecting the entire staff and players. And even so Pato was crucial to take São Paulo to a decent position in the 2015 league.

 

as for accusations that brazilian league is not so "physical"... well, it´s not so fast because there is a trade between speed and endurance. Brazilian clubs play in average 15 more matches in a year than European clubs. (because of the state leagues). So the physical preparation at the start of the year takes that into consideration. They prepare players to play more matches, running less in each match. I guess in the end of the year, the "mileage" ends up being the same for european and brazilian players. Brazilian players who return to Brazil need a lot of time to re-adapt to the many more matches played in Brazil, and several struggle and do not re-adapt at all.

 

So why isn't he in the Brazil squad?

 

If the physical demands are so tough, why has it taken him almost three months to get 'match-fit' and still look a bit porky?

 

Why did he go back to the Brazilian league in the first place?

 

I don't dislike the chap but I dislike this club going back to a policy of playing formerly great players in the hopes that they'll reclaim that something special. I especially loath it when we have talented youngsters missing out on minutes to give these guys another shot at reaching the top when the likelihood is they won't. Sorry.

[AcesHigh]

So why isn't he in the Brazil squad?

why isn´t Thiago Silva in the Brazil squad? Ask Dunga this question. Pato is better than Hulk, no question about that.

 

If the physical demands are so tough, why has it taken him almost three months to get 'match-fit'

as I said, it´s not a question of getting match fit. It´s a question of different physical preparation, for different demands. Like a runner who specializes for the 400m changing preparation for the 4000m, and vice versa.

plenty of european based players who returned to Brazil also took a long time to get match fit.

and still look a bit porky?

does he really?

besides, was he really not match fit? I think it´s much more a question of the fact Gus did NOT WANT HIM, but he was pushed into the club by Kia Joorabchian, the agent. Chelsea did not need Pato. Too many players for the same position.

btw, just as a side note, brazilian season starts in february and ends in december. Pato ended the season with São Paulo and had no pre-season. European players who ended a season would also take some time to get in the same physical level as other players if thrown in the middle of an already running season. We don't even call it seasons in Brazil, but simply "year", because leagues start and end in the same year.

 

Why did he go back to the Brazilian league in the first place?

why not?

 

I don't dislike the chap but I dislike this club going back to a policy of playing formerly great players in the hopes that they'll reclaim that something special. I especially loath it when we have talented youngsters missing out on minutes to give these guys another shot at reaching the top when the likelihood is they won't. Sorry.

Pato is too young t consider him that way. Pato's problem has usually been related to women... if he has his right head in the right place, he can still be a great player.

[adineen98]

Look's like he's here to stay http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11668/10263101/sky-sources-corinthians-expect-pato-to-stay-at-chelsea-next-season