22 minutes ago, Stim said:

I love how mikel hasn't even played this season but he is still one of the ones blamed for bringing the team down. Alright then.

90k/w  who hardly plays and contributes....

Yeah that'll really make the team perform badly

2 hours ago, enigma said:

people are making this out to be an absolute travesty that we can't recover from. we have lost 2 games against two fierce rivals who are both playing well. we have a new manager who is trying to change our style and implement his ideas, while in the process of still getting used to the league. i know there are no excuses for poor performances like the last two, but we've dominated pretty much every game we've played in the league so far, had decisions go against us which cost us 3 points and have looked decent. we are far from the end product, but lets not forget utd lost to city, and lost, while looking poor vs watford. we sure as hell aren't doing as badly as people think, and we also have two key defenders out in zouma and terry. we should be looking on the positive side instead being overly critical of a manager who is trying his best to get us competing at the top level again. 

 

Agreed that things are hardly apocalyptic & not as bad as last year, just that the problems are so glaringly obvious to anyone with the slightest look into the club. Yes us fans aren't privy to behind the scenes elements, but there's a bunch of very obvious problems. There's a reason that seemingly no other team in the world plays with an inverted full back (barring an injury crisis), has their number 10 picked for how well he tracks back, etc. However, the biggest problem we face is that the club is not a meritocracy. 

31 minutes ago, JoseBlues said:

 

Hazard is the sole world class player we have. He has his off days but everyone in this team seems to have them. The entire onus of attack rests on him and it is inevitable he won't deliver always.

There is no scenario in which we should sell Hazard as replacing elite talent is incredibly difficult in today's market.

 

He is not world class not even close, he is two tiers below world class.

World class in that position is Messi, Neymar, Bale, Ronaldo.

The next tier is Sanchez, De Bruyne, Lucas, Griezmann

Hazard is not as good as any of those players.

That said, I am in favour of keeping him (atleast till he has a great season and we get a good price for him anyway). My post only meant as a reply to someone who was claiming that we could buy three players (a cb, a winger and a cm) all by selling Hazard.

Edited September 25, 20169 yr by Orpington_Blue

33 minutes ago, Stim said:

I love how mikel hasn't even played this season but he is still one of the ones blamed for bringing the team down. Alright then.

How idiotic. The very fact that we cant call upon him despite the piss poor form of current players if reason enough to get rid of him.

God... some ppl will just try to defend utter insanity.

4 minutes ago, Orpington_Blue said:

He is not world class not even close, he is two tiers below world class.

World class in that position is Messi, Neymar, Bale, Ronaldo.

The next tier is Sanchez, De Bruyne, Lucas, Griezmann

Hazard is not as good as any of those players.

That said, I am in favour of keeping him (atleast till he has a great season and we get a good price for him anyway). My post only meant as a reply to someone who was claiming that we could buy three players (a cb, a winger and a cm) all by selling Hazard.

Oh come on now, if course he's as good as Sanchez, de bruyne etc. Honestly, why disparage his achievements when he has shown he us definitely at that level.

3 minutes ago, dkw said:

Oh come on now, if course he's as good as Sanchez, de bruyne etc. Honestly, why disparage his achievements when he has shown he us definitely at that level.

Dont get me wrong he is as talented as the second bunch. He has too many off days compared to Sanchez, Griezmann and De Bruyne. Hence not in that catagory.

5 minutes ago, Orpington_Blue said:

How idiotic. The very fact that we cant call upon him despite the piss poor form of current players if reason enough to get rid of him.

God... some ppl will just try to defend utter insanity.

Wasn't talking about keeping him or not. I was talking about blaming him for dragging us down when he hasn't even featured this season. 

Some people will try drag the same names into every blaming session regardless of their contribution.

5 minutes ago, dkw said:

Oh come on now, if course he's as good as Sanchez, de bruyne etc. Honestly, why disparage his achievements when he has shown he us definitely at that level.

Self loathing

Just now, Stim said:

Wasn't talking about keeping him or not. I was talking about blaming him for dragging us down when he hasn't even featured this season. 

Some people will try drag the same names into every blaming session regardless of their contribution.

Who blamed him for the bad performance?

You can not deny that keeping him around means one less option for the first team. He is useless at this level.

Dont get me wrong he is as talented as the second bunch. He has too many off days compared to Sanchez, Griezmann and De Bruyne. Hence not in that catagory.

Those players have a lot more support staff than Hazard. Even Griezmann. Personally I think if you put Hazard in any of those teams and he will be on par if not better than them.

2 minutes ago, JoseBlues said:

 

Those players have a lot more support staff than Hazard. Even Griezmann. Personally I think if you put Hazard in any of those teams and he will be on par if not better than them.

 

Support staff? Like you mean hazard is not able to concentrate because he is thinking about his taxes and stuff?

6 minutes ago, Orpington_Blue said:

Dont get me wrong he is as talented as the second bunch. He has too many off days compared to Sanchez, Griezmann and De Bruyne. Hence not in that catagory.

Sanchez disappeared for large parts of last season, and the season before that. De Bruyne was the same last season too. Hazard at his peak is as good if not better than the ones you listed at their peak, theres no argument. 

Support staff? Like you mean hazard is not able to concentrate because he is thinking about his taxes and stuff?

Oh man. I meant other players who help out in attack. Here Hazard is expected to create everything himself.

Just now, dkw said:

Sanchez disappeared for large parts of last season, and the season before that. De Bruyne was the same last season too. Hazard at his peak is as good if not better than the ones you listed at their peak, theres no argument. 

So he is still second tier then isnt it? Which makes your op wrong about him being world class.

Anyways, pointless discussion. As I said, we should keep him for now.

7 minutes ago, Stim said:

Self loathing

Its really bizarre on here, I often wonder if its the same on other clubs forums. The sheer effort some go to to knock our own players and the complete unwillingness to accept any positives for them at every opportunity astonishes me. If a player plays well, praise him. If a player plays sh*t, say hes been sh*t.

9 minutes ago, Orpington_Blue said:

You can not deny that keeping him around means one less option for the first team. He is useless at this level.

I disagree. Maybe if we were actually strapped for first team places but we aren't. We constantly have the smallest batch of outfield players in the league. Past the first 11 the drop off is massive. People like you constantly want to replace when we need to add. The second part is just objectively wrong.

Drop Ivanovic and play who? Aina? The guy who looked worse in pre season? Drop Matic and play... ? Mikel! Drop Oscar and play??? RLC? Who also has looked worse.

Edited September 25, 20169 yr by Stim

4 minutes ago, dkw said:

Sanchez disappeared for large parts of last season, and the season before that. De Bruyne was the same last season too. Hazard at his peak is as good if not better than the ones you listed at their peak, theres no argument. 

KDB only disappeared because he was injured midway through the season. Last season he was very good otherwise. This season he is another level.

3 minutes ago, Stim said:

I disagree. Maybe if we were actually strapped for first team places but we aren't. We constantly have the smallest batch of outfield players in the league. Past the first 11 the drop off is massive. People like you constantly want to replace when we need to add. The second part is just objectively wrong.

 

Totally delusional.

Just imagine we could have kept Nathan Ake as cover at DM instead of Mikel. He would have also covered CB & LB as well. All while developing into a better player as well.

Now he is rotting in Bournemouth reserves cus hey we kept Mikel. Great Loyalty

Edited September 25, 20169 yr by Orpington_Blue

I'm delusional but you are claiming Ake would become a better player being on our bench. I'm out, don't think you have managed a single response without taking a personal dig.

Never mind Ake being home grown so not taking a foreign slot, and 2/3 positions not being Mikels so to blame Mikel for that emphasises my prior point.

Edited September 25, 20169 yr by Stim

i understand things aren't great, but by god there's such a long way to go in this season yet. people acting like the top four is done and dusted. it's always the same, people high when things go well, and finding people to blame when they don't go well. we aren't going to win every game and so far we've played two fierce rivals in space of a week, with a game away to hull and then utd not far after that. can't wait to get these sh*t fixtures out the way so we actually get a nice run of "easier" fixtures. once zouma is back it will be a load off our minds, then hopefully alonso can establish himself at lb, move azpi over to rb and start resembling a top side again. i just don't think we are as bad as people keep making out. 

3 minutes ago, Orpington_Blue said:

Totally delusional.

Just imagine we could have kept Nathan Ake as cover at DM instead of Mikel. He would have also covered CB & LB as well. All while developing into a better player as well.

Now he is rotting in Bournemouth reserves cus hey we kept Mikel. Great Loyalty

Tbh this is a good point. Chelsea have kept Chalaboah and really Ake would of been better at Chelsea than not playing at Bournemouth. Moved out the old like Mikel and Ivan and give these players a chance.

23 minutes ago, Orpington_Blue said:

How idiotic. The very fact that we cant call upon him despite the piss poor form of current players if reason enough to get rid of him.

God... some ppl will just try to defend utter insanity.

in the first line you've called someone idiotic and made a baseless assumption to back up a point of view that has nothing to do with what you've quoted.

in the second line you position yourself as a rational voice in opposition to insanity.

I mean... for two lines... that's pretty impressive.

2 minutes ago, Stim said:

I'm delusional but you are claiming Ake would become a better player being on our bench. I'm out, don't think you have managed a single response without taking a personal dig.

How is calling one of your posts delusional a personal dig? Its merely related to your post.

I am sure youre a nice upstanding man/woman, just with a poor understanding off how football works.

8 minutes ago, enigma said:

i understand things aren't great, but by god there's such a long way to go in this season yet. people acting like the top four is done and dusted. it's always the same, people high when things go well, and finding people to blame when they don't go well. we aren't going to win every game and so far we've played two fierce rivals in space of a week, with a game away to hull and then utd not far after that. can't wait to get these sh*t fixtures out the way so we actually get a nice run of "easier" fixtures. once zouma is back it will be a load off our minds, then hopefully alonso can establish himself at lb, move azpi over to rb and start resembling a top side again. i just don't think we are as bad as people keep making out. 

If you look at the way Chelsea have played in the last 2 fixtures against fierce rivals then maybe that's why people are being negative.

Cant rely on easy fixtures all year round.