22 minutes ago, didierforever said:

40 goals a season in English football!!! 

As good as morata is/can be, that level of exageration is just mind blowing. 

Honestly wont be surprised if he has an average first season of transition into english football.

If you used a some comon sense you would know that was a typo and you can't really talk about exaggerating as you were the one who was saying Pedro was sh*t, lost his place at Barca to Tello and can only score past crap teams at the start of the season. 

16 hours ago, MTF said:

sigh.... i thought the "hes scoring goals in an everton team!!! imagine if he was at chelsea and got even better service!!!" got put to bed on the internet years ago???

seriously, this has to be one of the dumbest and laziest arguments that was ever created and the people that still follow it are generally stupid

the amount of goals lukaku scores for everton means absolute squat when looking at how he would perform for chelsea. not only are the players different, but the coaching philosophies are different, style of play and most importantly...the way OPPOSING teams play against chelsea is a lot different to how they play everton.

conte wants a player that will hold the ball up and bring others into play. said player NEEDS to be able to play with their back to goal. running the channels is not necessary unless fabregas is on the pitch so said player needs passable enough technique so that they can link up with other players ala hazard, pedro and co. as much as people like to have a moan about costa being inconsistent, doesn't hold the ball up well enough, bad passer, cant shoot bla bla bla...hes miles ahead of lukaku at all of those things. 

and considering the only striker we've had in the last 10 years that has been able to play in such a role better than costa was drogba, people need to remember that standard and understand what a huge downgrade they're suggesting in lukaku

when i watch lukaku play, especially against the better sides, i feel like im watching an oaf that has concrete in his boots....he has no capacity to hold the ball up, lazy and almost doesnt even bother to challenge or close down defenders and is hugely ineffective off the ball. Dribbles like a prime paul mcshane (and i know dribbling isn't one of costa's crowning skills, but lukaku might as well not even bother).

he can make decent runs down the channels here and there and is also fairly dangerous around the box - i'll admit but he's going to look like a fish out of water just like he did in the past once he realizes that opposition teams will sit deep and put 2 banks of 4 or more infront of him protecting their own goal.

can already see this post offending people on here. to be quite honest, i think some people are a little bit too infatuated with lukaku, perhaps at the detriment of our own club. every year his fans want to make more noise about him and want him to come back. i just haven't seen any improvement in his game outside of his numbers which has already been explained and discussed to death about why it's irrelevant in a chelsea context. to me, he's the exact same player he was when he left.

i feel much more comfortable with a player like morata - who conte not only wants, but suits the style of play and the role that conte wants the striker in his system to fulfill here. and unlike lukaku, despite the inconsistent game time - he's spent his entire career playing against teams that are playing extremely deep, 2 banks of defence etc due to the club(s) he played for.

In all seriousness have you watched Lukaku this season or Diego since he signed for us? Diego is up there with the worst in the league when it comes to link up and hold up play. Other than the goal against the Southampton the other week he can't pass, dribble, or hold a ball up to save his life and breaks up a number of attacks every game. Lukaku on the other hand has improved in this department 10 fold this season. Every long ball is hoofed up to him and he manages to take it down on his chest and drop it off to a man in the middle or a winger. I find it bizarre that you seem to know so much but could get that so wrong.

7 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

In all seriousness have you watched Lukaku this season or Diego since he signed for us? Diego is up there with the worst in the league when it comes to link up and hold up play. Other than the goal against the Southampton the other week he can't pass, dribble, or hold a ball up to save his life and breaks up a number of attacks every game. Lukaku on the other hand has improved in this department 10 fold this season. Every long ball is hoofed up to him and he manages to take it down on his chest and drop it off to a man in the middle or a winger. I find it bizarre that you seem to know so much but could get that so wrong.

ahhh yes, the old, 'have you seen him play at all this season?' argument

BTW - seen him plenty and the lukaku you're describing is not the one i've been watching.

winning a rushed clearance in the middle of the pitch when you only have to worry about 1 defender jostling for the ball with you and no midfielders (theyre all up the other end of the pitch) because they're still transitioning from attack to defence is pretty bloody easy especially when you consider lukaku spends most of the time off the ball walking around with his hands in the air.

a lot different than trying to win and hold the ball up when you're in your opponents end of the pitch, playing against a set defence, and you find yourself dead centre in the middle of a defensive pivot that includes 2 central defenders, and a defensive minded midfielder that is hovering around like a pest.

already mentioned that dribbling isn't one of diego's strong points, but if you think lukaku is better than him at dribbling......then i...literally..... dont think there is any thing i can say that will change your mind - however, i'll just leave this here though...kicking the ball 15 yards past your opponent and chasing it down is NOT dribbling, or even remotely a piece of skill. any striker that finds themselves isolated with a central defender is going to have a 50% chance or more when it comes to having their way with the defender. lukakus ol' kick and chase routine is a throwback to the 1920s, not sure if he'll find much success against teams that are sitting deep in set positions, 2 straight lines of defence etc...you know the drill

and we've heard it all before in regards to diego's link up play being gash.....but somehow he still manages to pull off magic like his assist for willians goal vs city away, hazard vs spurs at home last season. he has his flaws which is why i've mentioned we've never really been able to utilize a player in that role or a similar one since drogba at his peak. but more often than not, when it counts, he does a passable job.

ultimately this discussion boils down to one thing - if diego is leaving who do we replace him with?

morata - a player that actually ticks all of conte's boxes, whom conte wanted twice (according to the player himself), regularly plays against teams parking the bus. in a conte orientated system, morata can match or even better lukaku at the facets lukaku excels at(finishing, aerial duels) and is comfortably better than lukaku at things that lukaku struggles in(dribbling, playing with his back to goal(not only in our own half when under pressure, but also when in transition)), being able to contribute to counter attacks both as an outlet and as a receiver of the ball ie: not just running into a dead end like a dummy, defending and closing down from the front etc).

or

lukaku - a slighty better, 23 year old version of the 18 year old we bought a few years ago. improved slightly in few areas yet still has glaring deficiencies in his game - oh did i mention thats he's also lazy? he shat himself in that shoot out for the super cup, and i feel if handed that same situation again these days he'd do the same, just seen no significant progression in his game or mettle since he left. if you dont agree with me that's fine, like i said, expected some people to agree and others not to or even worse, get rustled.

 

btw the guy that mentioned the whole todd kane issue, it wasn't just on here either - people were talking about it over on cfc net at the time as well. not one that advocates bullying...but clearly people thought it was hilarious how much hype was around the guy at the time yet he could barely trap a ball 

 

Edited May 11, 20179 yr by MTF

22 hours ago, MTF said:

I just haven't seen any improvement in his game outside of his numbers which has already been explained and discussed to death about why it's irrelevant in a chelsea context. to me, he's the exact same player he was when he left.

i feel much more comfortable with a player like morata - who conte not only wants, but suits the style of play and the role that conte wants the striker in his system to fulfill here. and unlike lukaku, despite the inconsistent game time - he's spent his entire career playing against teams that are playing extremely deep, 2 banks of defence etc due to the club(s) he played for.

The same arguments you make apply to Morata as well. It's like dismissing his record because he's largely a sub or starter against weaker teams, or because he plays for a team that consistently dominate their opponents. It's one thing to provide context to a player's stats but another entirely to mean that you can dismiss their numbers because of it. 

The biggest flaw in your logic is of course that Everton have to breakdown their fair share of teams who turn up to Goodison too. The EPL isn't exactly open slather attack.

8 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Diego is up there with the worst in the league when it comes to link up and hold up play. . Lukaku on the other hand has improved in this department 10 fold this season. Every long ball is hoofed up to him and he manages to take it down on his chest and drop it off to a man in the middle or a winger.

Absolute total and utter load of bollocks.

11 minutes ago, dkw said:

Absolute total and utter load of bollocks.

Shocking link up play!! 

 

 

2 minutes ago, barak81 said:

Shocking link up play!! 

 

 

Worst in the league....

59 minutes ago, SydneyChelsea said:

The same arguments you make apply to Morata as well. It's like dismissing his record because he's largely a sub or starter against weaker teams, or because he plays for a team that consistently dominate their opponents. It's one thing to provide context to a player's stats but another entirely to mean that you can dismiss their numbers because of it. 

The biggest flaw in your logic is of course that Everton have to breakdown their fair share of teams who turn up to Goodison too. The EPL isn't exactly open slather attack.

never mentioned stats in any of my posts when referencing morata though.

 

simply broke down each player into positives and flaws + the type of teams they line up against more often than not.

 

then take all of that data and squash it all into one ball, put my chelsea glasses on and see who out of the two would suit the way conte and the team is currently playing. no stats needed. if it was as simple as goals per appearance then they're both as impressive as eachother but thats being lazy.

1 hour ago, barak81 said:

Shocking link up play!! 

 

 

Try reading back my post and i said except for the Southampton goal. Good try though. 

1 hour ago, dkw said:

Absolute total and utter load of bollocks.

He is by far the worst striker Chelsea have ever had for hold up and link up play. Fantastic finisher but breaks down 90% of the attacks that come to him by not making the easy pass, taking too long on the ball or just dribbling head down a defender. Its mentioned every single week on the match day thread since he joined us. 

31 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Try reading back my post and i said except for the Southampton goal. Good try though. 

He is by far the worst striker Chelsea have ever had for hold up and link up play. Fantastic finisher but breaks down 90% of the attacks that come to him by not making the easy pass, taking too long on the ball or just dribbling head down a defender. Its mentioned every single week on the match day thread since he joined us. 

Im not Costas biggest fan. But you are talking utter rubbish mate. Costa has a decent amount of assists this season down to his link up play being good (on his day).

My issue with him is that he loses head frequently and when this happens he plays awful. But on his day he is a beast in most areas. 

24 minutes ago, Jackbuchanan said:

Im not Costas biggest fan. But you are talking utter rubbish mate. Costa has a decent amount of assists this season down to his link up play being good (on his day).

My issue with him is that he loses head frequently and when this happens he plays awful. But on his day he is a beast in most areas. 

By most areas i assume you mean finishing. You surely can't be making an argument for Costa even being a competent dribbler or able to hold onto a ball.

will be a very interesting summer

Blimey, haven't been back to this thread in a while and I can see the debate goes on..................!

 

I think Costa is packing his bags in the Summer and as good as he has been AT TIMES, I won't be that gutted to see him go.

As I said elsewhere, I have the utmost faith that Conte will identify who we bring in to replace him. I've changed my mind on Lukaku so many times I've got dizzy. Have swayed one way then the other. Have seen him totally own defenders (including ours in our FA Cup defeat last season) but he is one of those moody players who goes AWOL and at a club like ours, you just cannot have that. So I'll be surprised if we bring Lukaku back and right now would prefer Morata or A N Other.

 

3 hours ago, MTF said:

never mentioned stats in any of my posts when referencing morata though.

 

simply broke down each player into positives and flaws + the type of teams they line up against more often than not.

 

then take all of that data and squash it all into one ball, put my chelsea glasses on and see who out of the two would suit the way conte and the team is currently playing. no stats needed. if it was as simple as goals per appearance then they're both as impressive as eachother but thats being lazy.

Like it or not you when you compare pros and cons you are making a statistical judgement. You are judging each player by a set of observations. That's statistics. 

So, again, I'm still not sure about your original argument which appears to be that context is important for Lukaku's performances, but not for Morata.

 

 

Edited May 11, 20179 yr by SydneyChelsea

16 hours ago, pacquiao said:

If you used a some comon sense you would know that was a typo and you can't really talk about exaggerating as you were the one who was saying Pedro was sh*t, lost his place at Barca to Tello and can only score past crap teams at the start of the season. 

Yes, Pedro came good after the end of the last season in which he was horrendous. not to say that his general play has been very good, but instead his goal return has shadowed some very poor play (aka everton).

Talking about getting it WRONG, were not you the one sh*tting on moses at the start of the season? Oh well, you win some and lose some

2 hours ago, didierforever said:

Yes, Pedro came good after the end of the last season in which he was horrendous. not to say that his general play has been very good, but instead his goal return has shadowed some very poor play (aka everton).

Talking about getting it WRONG, were not you the one sh*tting on moses at the start of the season? Oh well, you win some and lose some

It's not just his goal return though is it, he has been creating chances as well, he has more assists this season then the likes of David Silva and Mesut Ozil, and has been key to Chelsea's attack all season.

As for Moses I was right about him, he was never going to make it at Chelsea as a winger, his end product is not good enough, nice try though. 

2 hours ago, pacquiao said:

It's not just his goal return though is it, he has been creating chances as well, he has more assists this season then the likes of David Silva and Mesut Ozil, and has been key to Chelsea's attack all season.

As for Moses I was right about him, he was never going to make it at Chelsea as a winger, his end product is not good enough, nice try though. 

As far as i remember, you just loved sh*tting on moses. I think after his first perf of the season where he was one of our best players, all you could say was it was against a youngster. But like I said, you win some, you lose some. Its alright.

Nemanja has the same number of PL assists this season (8) as Ozil (8) and Silva (8), and one less than pedro (9). Does not mean he has been great. Infact, if there are 2 positions that we should be looking for to get better players is a partner for Kante and a RW who can take the load off Hazard. Pedro more often than not leaves so much to be desired from his general play. Just go back to the everton 3-0 win and watch the 1st hour. He was probably horrendous. Fair enough if he can create a moment of magic, but dont let that hide some of his gaping deficiences.

Edited May 11, 20179 yr by didierforever

7 hours ago, havelschayes said:

will be a very interesting summer

Cant see Lukaku wanting to play under Mourinho again.

PS I dont want Lukaku 

17 minutes ago, didierforever said:

Pedro more often than not leaves so much to be desired from his general play.

12 goals 11 assists.  

POTY for me.

Edited May 11, 20179 yr by the special one

31 minutes ago, the special one said:

12 goals 11 assists.  

POTY for me.

If only goals and assists win you POTY, then

Costa: 21 goals, 7 assists

Hazard: 16 goals, 7 assists.

But hopefully, Kante wins the POTY as he DESERVES it despite not having 12 goals and 11 assists.

44 minutes ago, didierforever said:

As far as i remember, you just loved sh*tting on moses. I think after his first perf of the season where he was one of our best players, all you could say was it was against a youngster. But like I said, you win some, you lose some. Its alright.

Nemanja has the same number of PL assists this season (8) as Ozil (8) and Silva (8), and one less than pedro (9). Does not mean he has been great. Infact, if there are 2 positions that we should be looking for to get better players is a partner for Kante and a RW who can take the load off Hazard. Pedro more often than not leaves so much to be desired from his general play. Just go back to the everton 3-0 win and watch the 1st hour. He was probably horrendous. Fair enough if he can create a moment of magic, but dont let that hide some of his gaping deficiences.

That's false I never loved sh*tting on Moses as you like to put it, I always said he is not good enough as a winger to play for Chelsea, unlike you who has something against Pedro and also Costa who you was praying to flop at the start of the season. 

And to say Pedro was horrendous sums you up. With yet another over exaggerated description, he had a good game and deserved his MOTM award. 

10 minutes ago, pacquiao said:

That's false I never loved sh*tting on Moses as you like to put it, I always said he is not good enough as a winger to play for Chelsea, unlike you who has something against Pedro and also Costa who you was praying to flop at the start of the season. 

And to say Pedro was horrendous sums you up. With yet another over exaggerated description, he had a good game and deserved his MOTM award. 

Mid match opinions of fans before the goal

 

 

I can surely go and find out more comments for you. But I realise it would be like hitting my head against the wall. Pedro WAS horrendous before his goal. Even I would give him the MOTM because it was a crazy goal, in a massive moment. But that should not negate the number of attacks his poor passes, headless chicken dribbling cost us in the first hour. 

 

Edited May 11, 20179 yr by didierforever

10 minutes ago, didierforever said:

Mid match opinions of fans before the goal

 

I can surely go and find out more comments for you. But I realise it would be like hitting my head against the wall. Pedro WAS horrendous before his goal. Even I would give him the MOTM because it was a crazy goal, in a massive moment. But that should not negate the number of attacks his poor passes, headless chicken dribbling cost us in the first hour. 

Here are Pedro's touches of the ball in that game. (And this video doesn't show some of the good runs he made off the ball)

So yeah so many attacks broke down because of Pedro's poor passing and headless chicken dribbling didn't they. 

your hatred towards Pedro is embarrassing, if you call that a horrendous performance then you probably haven't watched Lukaku play much over the years. 

Edited May 11, 20179 yr by pacquiao

1 minute ago, pacquiao said:

Here are Pedro's touches of the ball in that game. (And this video doesn't show down of the good runs he made off the ball)

So yeah so many attacks broke down because of Pedro's poor passing and headless chicken dribbling didn't they. 

your hatred towards Pedro is embarrassing, if you call that a horrendous performance then you probably haven't watched Lukaku play much over the years. 

How is it my opinio when so many FANS of CHELSEA FOOTBALL CLUB are saying it. 

Maybe all those are my accounts!!! WOAAHHHH

Edited May 11, 20179 yr by didierforever

Just now, didierforever said:

How is it my opinio when so many FANS of CHELSEA FOOTBALL CLUB are saying it. 

Show me these fans who said Pedro's first half was horrendous?