1 hour ago, Zeta Orionis said:

I'm getting the feeling he's probably going to be another Del Horno or Luis or Baba and disappear after 1 season. He's okay going forward and okay defensively, but nothing special in either direction and I think Conte will probably want to improve that position in the summer.

If we do go out and bring someone else in i think we will still keep hold of Alonso. He would be a very good squad player to have in the team.

The beauty of this formation is that Hazard plays so far up that it becomes difficult for any Left Backs to join there wingers in attack in order to exploit Alonso's shortcomings defensively. There may be games where he will struggle but the same can be said of anybody, at the moment he is doing a sterling job and would certainly make a good squad player if we were to look for an upgrade.

He's certainly not a goal scorer. If I remember correctly, even the goal he did score was unconvincing (down the middle near the keeper I think?). Every other shot he's had (and he's had some in great areas), has been woeful. Needs to work on that in training.

 

Otherwise, he's solid enough.

18 minutes ago, Cam said:

He's certainly not a goal scorer. If I remember correctly, even the goal he did score was unconvincing (down the middle near the keeper I think?). Every other shot he's had (and he's had some in great areas), has been woeful. Needs to work on that in training.

 

Otherwise, he's solid enough.

Think he megged the keeper, but spot on,he gets in goal scoring positions so he needs to spend a few hours a week with the forwards doing some shooting practice 

Wolfsburg is struggling this season, so maybe we should take a step forwars towards Ricardo Rodriguez? Not sure if Baba has a future at this club...

1 hour ago, BelgradeCFC said:

Wolfsburg is struggling this season, so maybe we should take a step forwars towards Ricardo Rodriguez? Not sure if Baba has a future at this club...

Would be another slow wingback. I'd rather we go for somebody quicker. Mendy looked like a great offensive fullback against Tottenham. Quick, strong, good in the air, good technique, quality deliveries, full of running. I only saw this one performance, but based on that I would definitely keep an eye on him.

On November 22, 2016 at 11:37, TrueBlueBIH said:

I wasn't impressed with Cesar on wing back, but people he is a right back, that played on left back and then turned into a center back and he was phenomenal in every position he played. He can't just walk into a new position and be perfect as he was on every previous, one game doesn't mean nothing. With Zouma soon back i am not certain he will retain his position which is a shame done so well for us over the years and too good to be a squad player in my opinion. Alonso on the other hand is in his natural position and he is pretty solid. He must have cover will it be Cesar, or maybe recall Kenedy in january or a completely new signing it doesn't matter. 

Zouma isn't getting in this team. We are building a philosophy to play out from the back and Zouma simply isn't suited to that. Can see Zouma being to Conte what Mata at Chelsea was to Jose. Its unfortunate as i do like him, but a small price to pay in comparison to what Antonio is building here.

Edited November 28, 20169 yr by Argo

Zouma isn't getting in this team. We are building a philosophy to play out from the back and Zouma simply isn't suited to that. Can see Zouma being to Conte what Mata at Chelsea was to Jose. Its unfortunate as i do like him, but a small price to pay in comparison to what Antonio is building here.

Stronger and quicker than Cahill and at least as good a passer. Also I've never seen a more dominant player in the air at his age. He will push for a place for sure. The only problem is that the perfect player for Cahill's position is Luiz. Someone like Koulibaly would be ideal for the centre.

9 hours ago, Argo said:

Zouma isn't getting in this team. We are building a philosophy to play out from the back and Zouma simply isn't suited to that. Can see Zouma being to Conte what Mata at Chelsea was to Jose. Its unfortunate as i do like him, but a small price to pay in comparison to what Antonio is building here.

Well if Cahill is suited then i am more than certain Zouma is as well.

50 minutes ago, TrueBlueBIH said:

Well if Cahill is suited then i am more than certain Zouma is as well.

While I think that Zouma is a better passer than Cahill, if he's got space and time, he is way more awkward in possession of the ball than the Englishman. Being pressed like we were against Tottenham, I fear he would be catastrophic. Even under Mourinho he had problems at times, but as a LCB with Conte wanting to build from the back, he would have the ball a lot more, and I think he might have problems with that.

Would be a pity because I like him a lot, and because he is a beast physically and in defence, but it is a price I'm willing to pay for Conte to fulfill his vision.

1 hour ago, True Blue23 said:

While I think that Zouma is a better passer than Cahill, if he's got space and time, he is way more awkward in possession of the ball than the Englishman. Being pressed like we were against Tottenham, I fear he would be catastrophic. Even under Mourinho he had problems at times, but as a LCB with Conte wanting to build from the back, he would have the ball a lot more, and I think he might have problems with that.

Would be a pity because I like him a lot, and because he is a beast physically and in defence, but it is a price I'm willing to pay for Conte to fulfill his vision.

Agreed as i was always against a tactic that is forced on the team to suit a certain player. Conte suited his tactic so he gets the best out of the team not some particular player.

Where has everyone got this idea that Conte wants amazing passing from all three of his back line? 

 

At Juve and Italy he had Bonucci in the middle to distribute the ball and Barzagli and Chiellini either side for the pace and power. Neither of which were particularly good on the ball. 

 

We have David in the middle playing the Bonucci role and Zouma could easily fill one of the outside roles with his athleticism making him a perfect fit.

 

14 hours ago, Argo said:

Zouma isn't getting in this team. We are building a philosophy to play out from the back and Zouma simply isn't suited to that. Can see Zouma being to Conte what Mata at Chelsea was to Jose. Its unfortunate as i do like him, but a small price to pay in comparison to what Antonio is building here.

 

15 hours ago, Argo said:

Zouma isn't getting in this team. We are building a philosophy to play out from the back and Zouma simply isn't suited to that. Can see Zouma being to Conte what Mata at Chelsea was to Jose. Its unfortunate as i do like him, but a small price to pay in comparison to what Antonio is building here.

He is a top CB in the making but he isn't very comfortable on the ball, as long as 2 of the 3 and good ball players he would be fine, as young as he is he can certainly improve that aspect 

29 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Where has everyone got this idea that Conte wants amazing passing from all three of his back line? 

 

At Juve and Italy he had Bonucci in the middle to distribute the ball and Barzagli and Chiellini either side for the pace and power. Neither of which were particularly good on the ball. 

 

We have David in the middle playing the Bonucci role and Zouma could easily fill one of the outside roles with his athleticism making him a perfect fit.

 

 

To be fair the Italian league is far slower our issue against the spuds in the first half was we couldn't play out from the back stop us doing that you pin back the wing back and stop us playing..comparing what he did in Italy to here can be apples and oranges 

Just now, DonAntonio said:

To be fair the Italian league is far slower our issue against the spuds in the first half was we couldn't play out from the back stop us doing that you pin back the wing back and stop us playing..comparing what he did in Italy to here can be apples and oranges 

How many teams press like Spurs though other than maybe Liverpool. Even Spurs couldn't manage it after half time. The vast majority of games over the season it wouldn't matter as he'd have plenty of time with the ball.

52 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Where has everyone got this idea that Conte wants amazing passing from all three of his back line? 

 

At Juve and Italy he had Bonucci in the middle to distribute the ball and Barzagli and Chiellini either side for the pace and power. Neither of which were particularly good on the ball. 

 

We have David in the middle playing the Bonucci role and Zouma could easily fill one of the outside roles with his athleticism making him a perfect fit.

 

 

Not amazing is one thing, unnatural is a different matter altogether. 

26 minutes ago, DonAntonio said:

He is a top CB in the making but he isn't very comfortable on the ball, as long as 2 of the 3 and good ball players he would be fine, as young as he is he can certainly improve that aspect 

How much better can he realistically get ball playing wise? Improvements when you get older is more from a tactical point of view, players like Zouma and Lukaku are what they are, they are not going to rock up one day with the ball almost glued to their feet just because they have grown a bit older.

48 minutes ago, Argo said:

Not amazing is one thing, unnatural is a different matter altogether. 

How much better can he realistically get ball playing wise? Improvements when you get older is more from a tactical point of view, players like Zouma and Lukaku are what they are, they are not going to rock up one day with the ball almost glued to their feet just because they have grown a bit older.

Young players can improve with the more football and experience they get. Drogba wasn't a technically gifted footballer in his early 20's but his 'ball playing' skills significantly improved over the years.

Not all will of course but when you have the ability and rise that guys like Zouma have then why is it so hard to think they will get better as time goes on? There are tons of examples out there.

 

 

1 hour ago, RIP Mourinho said:

How many teams press like Spurs though other than maybe Liverpool. Even Spurs couldn't manage it after half time. The vast majority of games over the season it wouldn't matter as he'd have plenty of time with the ball.

The phrases horses for courses applies here, anyone can high press, if that's our weakness expect more teams to do it against us, plus if they score early they can then afford to sit back they don't need to press for 90 mins, Pedros goal changed the dynamic of the game I think we would have drawed at best had he not got that goal. 

3 minutes ago, Chelsbear said:

Young players can improve with the more football and experience they get. Drogba wasn't a technically gifted footballer in his early 20's but his 'ball playing' skills significantly improved over the years.

Not all will of course but when you have the ability and rise that guys like Zouma have then why is it so hard to think they will get better as time goes on? There are tons of examples out there.

 

 

Drogba was underated technically even at Marseille, he was never awkward on the ball like Zouma, unfortunately a bit similar to Kante now, his technical skills were underrated due to his reputation of being a brute who bullies players. We had this same thing with Oscar, he's widely written off by every Chelsea fan now but he's no worse than he was at 21, he was clearly never good enough but because he was young we had to give him time just incase he turned into Modric.

Zouma has the potential to be a very good defender but a player comfortable with playing out the back? Just can't see it.

10 minutes ago, Argo said:

Drogba was underated technically even at Marseille, he was never awkward on the ball like Zouma, unfortunately a bit similar to Kante now, his technical skills were underrated due to his reputation of being a brute who bullies players. We had this same thing with Oscar, he's widely written off by every Chelsea fan now but he's no worse than he was at 21, he was clearly never good enough but because he was young we had to give him time just incase he turned into Modric.

Zouma has the potential to be a very good defender but a player comfortable with playing out the back? Just can't see it.

Drogba was quite clumsy on the ball prior to that season at Marseille where he was top goalscorer (at 24/25), he was nowhere near the player he was a year or two after moving here. Go back and watch his performances and how he is on the ball. Sky Sports done a programme on him on sporting heroes, you should watch that to see what I mean.

Zouma is 22, it's madness to think he can't or wont improve on elements of his game. Look at the progress he made pre injury.

I find it crazy some would think players cant improve when they are barely into their careers at all. Madness actually

5 hours ago, Chelsbear said:

Drogba was quite clumsy on the ball prior to that season at Marseille where he was top goalscorer (at 24/25), he was nowhere near the player he was a year or two after moving here. Go back and watch his performances and how he is on the ball. Sky Sports done a programme on him on sporting heroes, you should watch that to see what I mean.

Zouma is 22, it's madness to think he can't or wont improve on elements of his game. Look at the progress he made pre injury.

I find it crazy some would think players cant improve when they are barely into their careers at all. Madness actually

I never said they can't improve, but how many people go from being noy great technically to great, even if Drogba was one, his whole career was a bit unique in the way he went about it, it's like saying give all these managers time because of Ferguson.

As for youre last line,I kept having similar lines thrown at me when I said Oscar wasn't going to amount to much, how could I make such a harsh judgement on a 22 year old i was asked? Well because it was blatantly obvious he wasn't that good, and becoming older wasn't going to change that, and it hasn't.

Now unlike Oscar I think Zouma has potential to be a good defender, he is just not going to be this ball playing defender that's a vital cog to a philosophy that requites playing out the back, just like Kenedy won't ever be as good as Hazard on the wing (which I have seen bizArely predicted on occasion), yes young players can improve but some things are just never going to happen.

To be honest, he has been good under the system. His defence is not great, but he has the height and reasonable speed to keep most wingers he faced quiet. Against Sterling will be an interesting challenge this Saturday. Both him and Moses need extra training sessions on shooting, lot's of chances have fallen on wing backs in the last few games.

11 hours ago, Argo said:

I never said they can't improve, but how many people go from being noy great technically to great, even if Drogba was one, his whole career was a bit unique in the way he went about it, it's like saying give all these managers time because of Ferguson.

As for youre last line,I kept having similar lines thrown at me when I said Oscar wasn't going to amount to much, how could I make such a harsh judgement on a 22 year old i was asked? Well because it was blatantly obvious he wasn't that good, and becoming older wasn't going to change that, and it hasn't.

Now unlike Oscar I think Zouma has potential to be a good defender, he is just not going to be this ball playing defender that's a vital cog to a philosophy that requites playing out the back, just like Kenedy won't ever be as good as Hazard on the wing (which I have seen bizArely predicted on occasion), yes young players can improve but some things are just never going to happen.

You cant predict the future so why are you saying he won't improve?

It's just daft tbh, try showing a little faith in one of our most promising players eh?

Despite having a cracking left foot on him, his decision making in the final third is so inconsistent. We've seen him cross some excellent balls into the box, but very rarely do they appear to have a target in mind. For me, he's out of sync with the rest of our attackers, and there's a reluctance from our offensive players to use him in the build up. To be fair, he is often a good outlet to recycle the ball, as our opponents often leave him be to double mark Hazard (very apparent with Spurs, who allowed him the most touches of the ball of any player on the park).

Defensively he's capable aerially, and it looks as if he's been instructed with simply getting the ball clear in the defensive third. He largely keeps it simple, as with Cahill, which is fine as neither look comfortable playing the ball from the back under pressure. 

For me, he's a stop gap. He's tracks wingers, he clears the ball, he gets up and down the pitch. He doesn't do a great deal wrong, but he's a low threat offensively and his (and Cahill's) lack of pace leaves us exposed against a decent opposing right winger (ala Valencia in the United game, although thankfully his multitude of free crosses from that side didn't result in a goal). A more technically capable left wing back, with a bit more pace about them and a decent work ethic, and we're a considerably more threatening side. Sure, we'd probably lose that wide aerial outlet, but I'm not convinced his (nor Ivanovic's in previous seasons) has contributed much in our build up.

 

14 hours ago, Argo said:

I never said they can't improve, but how many people go from being noy great technically to great, even if Drogba was one, his whole career was a bit unique in the way he went about it, it's like saying give all these managers time because of Ferguson.

As for youre last line,I kept having similar lines thrown at me when I said Oscar wasn't going to amount to much, how could I make such a harsh judgement on a 22 year old i was asked? Well because it was blatantly obvious he wasn't that good, and becoming older wasn't going to change that, and it hasn't.

Now unlike Oscar I think Zouma has potential to be a good defender, he is just not going to be this ball playing defender that's a vital cog to a philosophy that requites playing out the back, just like Kenedy won't ever be as good as Hazard on the wing (which I have seen bizArely predicted on occasion), yes young players can improve but some things are just never going to happen.

What did you think about Moses? It's very hard to tell with young players, zooms however is proven he can step up to the challenge he is there already as a CB even if he never improved he is good enough to star in most teams in the PL already, for him to add some ball playing to his repertoire isn't far fetched, he will never be luiz that's natural not taught but he can learn to distribute far better