I like Alonso, I don't think he's brilliant but he's solid enough. I don't see why he can't improve on certain aspects of his game either.

4 hours ago, Chelsbear said:

You cant predict the future so why are you saying he won't improve?

It's just daft tbh, try showing a little faith in one of our most promising players eh?

You have totally ignored my main points, let me guess you were also one of the one's champaigning Oscar up until last season?

Also i have never said he can't improve, stop twisting my words, he can and probably will improve in a tactical and positional pov, but to go from his level of awkwardness on the ball to being a key cog in a philosophy based on passing out the back? extremely extremely extremely unlikely.

1 hour ago, DonAntonio said:

What did you think about Moses? It's very hard to tell with young players, zooms however is proven he can step up to the challenge he is there already as a CB even if he never improved he is good enough to star in most teams in the PL already, for him to add some ball playing to his repertoire isn't far fetched, he will never be luiz that's natural not taught but he can learn to distribute far better 

Bang average winger, that was obvious when he was here last, he had some good moments and scored some goals in Europe but his decision making was rash (and that's putting it nicely), murdered many counter attacks and constantly panicked and froze when a defender was closing in on him. We brought two wingers in for a squad role in that summer and i think because one was one of the worst players we have ever had made Moses look better than he actually was. Since he joined Wigan in 2010 i have probably seen him play (before this season) must be about 100 times, how many times was i impressed? about five times.

Wing back however he is a different kettle of fish, i actually think he is world class in that position and im awe of watching him there but as a winger he was average and that was obvious from day dot.

I like Alonso, I don't think he's brilliant but he's solid enough. I don't see why he can't improve on certain aspects of his game either.

I think if we want to go far in the Champions league next season we will need an upgrade in his position. Though we will have to spend a lot of money because unlike the RWB there are very few players in the market that are left wingers and are good both defensively and offensively. Alaba, Bale, Marcelo.
And I also think if given enough playing time Kennedy can develope and be an upgrade on Alonso but I can't see him getting enough playing time at Watford.

Bang average winger, that was obvious when he was here last, he had some good moments and scored some goals in Europe but his decision making was rash (and that's putting it nicely), murdered many counter attacks and constantly panicked and froze when a defender was closing in on him. We brought two wingers in for a squad role in that summer and i think because one was one of the worst players we have ever had made Moses look better than he actually was. Since he joined Wigan in 2010 i have probably seen him play (before this season) must be about 100 times, how many times was i impressed? about five times.
Wing back however he is a different kettle of fish, i actually think he is world class in that position and im awe of watching him there but as a winger he was average and that was obvious from day dot.

Why did Conte keep Moses this season if he was bang average or whatever you called it? AND PLEASE DON'T TELL ME CONTE HAD IT IN HIS MIND THAT MOSES WILL PLAY AS A RWB!

5 minutes ago, wallosh said:

I think if we want to go far in the Champions league next season we will need an upgrade in his position. Though we will have to spend a lot of money because unlike the RWB there are very few players in the market that are left wingers and are good both defensively and offensively. Alaba, Bale, Marcelo.
And I also think if given enough playing time Kennedy can develope and be an upgrade on Alonso but I can't see him getting enough playing time at Watford.

I agree we will need an upgrade but he would be a good squad option.

8 hours ago, wallosh said:

Why did Conte keep Moses this season if he was bang average or whatever you called it? AND PLEASE DON'T TELL ME CONTE HAD IT IN HIS MIND THAT MOSES WILL PLAY AS A RWB!

Why did Fergie love Cleverly? Top managers can make blunders. Who knows what Contes thought process was but if he was pining his hopes on Moses being a consistent winger than all i can say is thankf**k he stumbled across this Moses at WB idea.

Why did Fergie love Cleverly? Top managers can make blunders. Who knows what Contes thought process was but if he was pining his hopes on Moses being a consistent winger than all i can say is thankf**k he stumbled across this Moses at WB idea.

Sometimes I back off from discussing about Moses when I see signs that someone is reluctant to admit he was wrong about Moses. [emoji3]

1 hour ago, wallosh said:

Sometimes I back off from discussing about Moses when I see signs that someone is reluctant to admit he was wrong about Moses.

Are you actually suggesting winger and wingback are the same? 

Edited December 1, 20169 yr by Argo

On 11/29/2016 at 14:39, Argo said:

Not amazing is one thing, unnatural is a different matter altogether. 

How much better can he realistically get ball playing wise? Improvements when you get older is more from a tactical point of view, players like Zouma and Lukaku are what they are, they are not going to rock up one day with the ball almost glued to their feet just because they have grown a bit older.

Zouma isn't unnatural on the ball though? He may look clumsy but his passes are usually very accurate. The games he's played with the U23's this season his spays from the right of the defense into the left channel have been fantastic. 

1v1. USELESS

4 minutes ago, jamie#8 said:

1v1. USELESS

I agree, he just lacks the pace to do his job, attackers can just burst past him everytime they get some space. His passing is also letting him down.

His pace is actually reasonable once he warms up, but his acceleration is so poor it's total murder. 

He's always given me the impression that he lacks defensive acumen. For starters, he hasn't been all that good in making tackles or interceptions.

On the other hand, his weaknesses are minimised because he gets forward well and he does have very good vision for a left-wing back. Twice he's been able to spot runs from Pedro and Hazard from afar and notch assists, which is actually quite impressive.

Alonso and cahill was the weak spot today, and it was magnified by hazard ahead of them and no matic.

Alonso still has time on his side to improve, and he will probably start most gsnes from now til the end of the season, so there is hope.

However i wouldnt be suprised if conte was already thinking of alternate option at left wing back.

Looks an able squad player, he isnt strong enough defensively, and unlkie moses, he hasnt got the athleticism to make up for it.

Alonso looked way out of his depth today, and he and Cahill were all over the place, and City had a lot of joy down their side, but City are a good side with amazing players and they're good at exploiting any weaknesses. Against opposition of that quality Alonso looked distinctly average. On another day we'd have been punished.

I think it's enough game to give verdict on alonso.. well, where do we start? as a defender, I don't think he's a good one because he's rather easily beaten.. going forward? I don't think his delivery is anything special.. Being left footed and the willingness of going up and down and stay wide of the pitch are probably his only positive for taking up that spot in the team..

 

I think willian can offer more, sure he's right footed but we hardly getting any good delivery from alonso anyway.. willian got pace and work hard so defensively he can't be any worse, as for going forward, i think he will offer more..

11 hours ago, Davey Baby said:

Alonso looked way out of his depth today, and he and Cahill were all over the place, and City had a lot of joy down their side, but City are a good side with amazing players and they're good at exploiting any weaknesses. Against opposition of that quality Alonso looked distinctly average. On another day we'd have been punished.

And yet we have won every game he has started.

worth baring in mind that today he was supported by fabregas and not matic 

13 minutes ago, bola said:

I think it's enough game to give verdict on alonso.. well, where do we start? as a defender, I don't think he's a good one because he's rather easily beaten.. going forward? I don't think his delivery is anything special.. Being left footed and the willingness of going up and down and stay wide of the pitch are probably his only positive for taking up that spot in the team..

 

I think willian can offer more, sure he's right footed but we hardly getting any good delivery from alonso anyway.. willian got pace and work hard so defensively he can't be any worse, as for going forward, i think he will offer more..

Yap,  the first goal against united, shockingly had cross 

Alonso, defensively suffered yesterday but his supporting partners weren't great, this is a team game and dealing with KDB, aguero and navas will be tough for anyone.

Paulo Maldini he's not, but he's solid enough, he wins a lot in the air for us and attacking wise he's much better then blind bola makes out. He is the best player we have at the moment for that position, and wing backs are not going to be that easy to come by these days

Wanting to replace a left back with a right winger is monumentally stupid.

40 minutes ago, barak81 said:

He is the best player we have at the moment for that position.

 

That is undoubtedly true, but at the moment it seems an obvious area of weakness. City certainly identified him as a weakness. Kenedy is back now and he may get a chance when Alonso misses out for any reason, and it will be interesting to see how he does.

Im all brining back Terry phelen

1 hour ago, barak81 said:

Alonso, defensively suffered yesterday but his supporting partners weren't great, this is a team game and dealing with KDB, aguero and navas will be tough for anyone.

Paulo Maldini he's not, but he's solid enough, he wins a lot in the air for us and attacking wise he's much better then blind bola makes out. He is the best player we have at the moment for that position, and wing backs are not going to be that easy to come by these days

I think every LB in the modern game should be able to play WB. A left back nowadays places as much emphasis on attacking as defending.

 

Defending is a team thing you're right but that doesnt paper over the fact that everytime a winger gets him 1v1, invariably they 'skin' him. It was just yesterday there were examples inthe previous weeks. You cant improve accelration/athleticism. He just doesnt have enough to be top class.

 

BTW - Wiliian is certainly not a wingback! 

Didn't think he was that bad yesterday, was left isolated on a couple of occasions because players weren't getting across to support him. 

He is what he is as a player, he's never going to be world class but at the same time I don't see him as a hindrance, he's been as much a part of the reason we've been conceding so few goals as anyone. 

It seems to be a golden rule that we fans will always need a scapegoat, no matter how strong the team is. Why not give Alonso support? 22-2 is our goal difference in the last eight matches, not bad and Alonso deserves his share of credit. BTW he wasn't the only one who got skinned yesterday.

And how much are we hearing about his vision for Hazard's goal? We would be drooling if Fabregas (who had his own special!) had made the pass.

2 minutes ago, EmeraldBlue said:

It seems to be a golden rule that we fans will always need a scapegoat, no matter how strong the team is. Why not give Alonso support? 22-2 is our goal difference in the last eight matches, not bad and Alonso deserves his share of credit. BTW he wasn't the only one who got skinned yesterday.

And how much are we hearing about his vision for Hazard's goal? We would be drooling if Fabregas (who had his own special!) had made the pass.

 

I dont think anyone is being overly harsh here. Pretty much stating what is clear to see. He struggles 1v1 defensively and is just a solid player rather and a LB/LWB we can see in our 11 for years to come.