3 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

i think that deep down you know this is all stupid...

Yes, I do. Starting with your childish defence of Jorginho and not letting any critical post of him go, not even getting the tongue in cheek posts of others, and even looking for an argument with me now for showing your flawed logic like three posts above. Don’t worry to reply, I won’t continue this nonsensical discussion.

27 minutes ago, RMH said:

Yes, I do. Starting with your childish defence of Jorginho and not letting any critical post of him go, not even getting the tongue in cheek posts of others, and even looking for an argument with me now for showing your flawed logic like three posts above. Don’t worry to reply, I won’t continue this nonsensical discussion.

Ah okey so you're not actually trying to be fair here, you chose to avoid all of what I argue for and just do ad-hominem.
So you don't actually want to admit and openly say that it's actually not fair to claim that we don't push for league titles only because Jorginho is our player. You didn't really have a problem with that being a view, you got bothered when I said that that argument simply doesn't have much grounds in reality because us not winning a league title has a lot more factors than just Jorginho playing for us. You would never have said that it's childish to constantly use Jorginho as the scapegoat either.

I know that I started by only 1 response to a comment saying that Jorginho was never suited for this league, so that's not a small claim nor a small criticism, if that was in any way close to the truth he wouldn't have survived for the full duration of his contract so me replying to that comment doesn't mean that I never let any critical post go.

But how come you also never care to react towards rip having a complete meltdown in his replies to me when he basically claims what he has always claimed either directly or indirectly, that every manager that we had after Conte was essentially clueless for playing Jorginho and that whatever good happen to us is despite Jorginho while in turn that everything bad that has happened is mainly because of Jorginho? Seems like you find that a very much grown-up way of discussing about football... Your loss.

Edited November 16, 20223 yr by Gol15

On 16/11/2022 at 16:48, Gol15 said:

Ah okey so you're not actually trying to be fair here, you chose to avoid all of what I argue for and just do ad-hominem.
So you don't actually want to admit and openly say that it's actually not fair to claim that we don't push for league titles only because Jorginho is our player. You didn't really have a problem with that being a view, you got bothered when I said that that argument simply doesn't have much grounds in reality because us not winning a league title has a lot more factors than just Jorginho playing for us. You would never have said that it's childish to constantly use Jorginho as the scapegoat either.

I know that I started by only 1 response to a comment saying that Jorginho was never suited for this league, so that's not a small claim nor a small criticism, if that was in any way close to the truth he wouldn't have survived for the full duration of his contract so me replying to that comment doesn't mean that I never let any critical post go.

But how come you also never care to react towards rip having a complete meltdown in his replies to me when he basically claims what he has always claimed either directly or indirectly, that every manager that we had after Conte was essentially clueless for playing Jorginho and that whatever good happen to us is despite Jorginho while in turn that everything bad that has happened is mainly because of Jorginho? Seems like you find that a very much grown-up way of discussing about football... Your loss.

Making things up again, buddy.

I've said plenty of times Jorginho is perfectly fine starting cup competitions as he can hold form for a few games spread out over the course of a season. I happily admit he was good in our CL run under Tuchel. I also maintain managers have played him in the league due to Kante and Kovacic's injuries and a lack of options. I also maintain you'll never win a league title with him as he doesn't have the physical capabilities to perform week in week out at a high level, as we've seen the past 5 years. He's shown this at Chelsea and Napoli. Following Italy's world cup qualification he might be dropping off in the cup runs too now. Upgrade needed.

 

26 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Making things up again, buddy.

I've said plenty of times Jorginho is perfectly fine starting cup competitions as he can hold form for a few games spread out over the course of a season. I happily admit he was good in our CL run under Tuchel. I also maintain managers have played him in the league due to Kante and Kovacic's injuries and a lack of options. I also maintain you'll never win a league title with him as he doesn't have the physical capabilities to perform week in week out at a high level, as we've seen the past 5 years. He's shown this at Chelsea and Napoli. Following Italy's world cup qualification he might be dropping off in the cup runs too now. Upgrade needed.

 

The final proof that you got nothing on me is that the best you can come up with is saying that I make stuff up or that I have done it. From my own experience I know that it's irrelevant that you now try to sound more balanced, in a week you'll come back doing the same sh*t again so don't bother trying to convince me that you're someone that has ever had a balanced approach when dicussing football. Don't even bother replying to me, at least I won't do what you have done here in case we do sign someone like Rice as I'm not as bad so I'll keep supporting unlike you, have a nice.

1 minute ago, Gol15 said:

The final proof that you got nothing on me is that the best you can come up with is saying that I make stuff up or that I have done it. From my own experience I know that it's irrelevant that you now try to sound more balanced, in a week you'll come back doing the same sh*t again so don't bother trying to convince me that you're someone that has ever had a balanced approach when dicussing football. Don't even bother replying to me, at least I won't do what you have done here in case we do sign someone like Rice as I'm not as bad so I'll keep supporting unlike you, have a nice.

I've been saying you make stuff up for months, because you do. Whether it be things people have said or different stat websites for you to knit pick from. I'm not trying to sound more balanced, i've reiterated my point as always: we'll never challenge for a title with Jorginho. Nothing has changed here.

1 hour ago, RIP Mourinho said:

I've been saying you make stuff up for months, because you do. Whether it be things people have said or different stat websites for you to knit pick from. I'm not trying to sound more balanced, i've reiterated my point as always: we'll never challenge for a title with Jorginho. Nothing has changed here.

A lot of projection here, I mean anyone that cares can read all what you have written throughout the years on this thread alone unless you somehow managed to edit or delete it all so I know that all that I have said is true, you nitpicking that on bit about challenging for titles wasn't really the focus of what I was saying and it doesn't take away the vast majority of your sh*t posts. Me not liking 1 website for stats doesn't mean anything, you still said a lot of trash stuff so I don't really care how you think that I have been cause I know how you have been here towards me.

In any case, we challenging for a title with Jorginho doesn't mean that he didn't do his role for us, he in fact did his role pretty well over the years but the fact remains that ever since Conte failed to replace D.Costa and finished 5th that we haven't been able to recover for that and no manager had the expectation of challenging for a league title anyway regardless of having Hazard or Jorginho or anyone else for that matter, nobody expected Sarri, Lampard nor Tuchel to compete for the league title except prior to the start of this very season, meaning prior to Tuchel's poor start and sacking. Anyone that we have bought after Conte's title, from Morata to Drinkwater has set us back a few years. But I have a strong argument when I say that Sarri wouldn't be able to implement his style of play without having Jorginho, which in turn would have meant that our top 4 finish would have been in danger so at the very least I can say with full confidence that having Jorginho made us a stable top 4 team since Lampard also relied upon him during his first season and Tuchel as well.

4 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

A lot of projection here, I mean anyone that cares can read all what you have written throughout the years on this thread alone unless you somehow managed to edit or delete it all so I know that all that I have said is true, you nitpicking that on bit about challenging for titles wasn't really the focus of what I was saying and it doesn't take away the vast majority of your sh*t posts. Me not liking 1 website for stats doesn't mean anything, you still said a lot of trash stuff so I don't really care how you think that I have been cause I know how you have been here towards me.

In any case, we challenging for a title with Jorginho doesn't mean that he didn't do his role for us, he in fact did his role pretty well over the years but the fact remains that ever since Conte failed to replace D.Costa and finished 5th that we haven't been able to recover for that and no manager had the expectation of challenging for a league title anyway regardless of having Hazard or Jorginho or anyone else for that matter, nobody expected Sarri, Lampard nor Tuchel to compete for the league title except prior to the start of this very season, meaning prior to Tuchel's poor start and sacking. Anyone that we have bought after Conte's title, from Morata to Drinkwater has set us back a few years. But I have a strong argument when I say that Sarri wouldn't be able to implement his style of play without having Jorginho, which in turn would have meant that our top 4 finish would have been in danger so at the very least I can say with full confidence that having Jorginho made us a stable top 4 team since Lampard also relied upon him during his first season and Tuchel as well.

We looked ready to challenge for a title under Lamps second season and dropped off massively towards November, exact same again for Tuchel. We were also a strong top 4 team before Jorginho, bar one season. So this argument that his signing cemented us in the top 4 is complete bollocks. 

9 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

We looked ready to challenge for a title under Lamps second season and dropped off massively towards November, exact same again for Tuchel. We were also a strong top 4 team before Jorginho, bar one season. So this argument that his signing cemented us in the top 4 is complete bollocks. 

I never said that we weren't a top 4 team prior to Jorginho, I said that with him we have been a stable top 4 team which isn't a small thing considering that prior to signing him we had huge ups and downs as a club with multiple managers. If you believe that we and while under Lampard were ready to challange for the league title... Good luck with that, bye.

1 minute ago, Gol15 said:

I never said that we weren't a top 4 team prior to Jorginho, I said that with him we have been a stable top 4 team which isn't a small thing considering that prior to signing him we had huge ups and downs as a club with multiple managers. If you believe that we and while under Lampard were ready to challange for the league title... Good luck with that, bye.

We've been a stable top 4 team since 2004, Jorginho hasn't done anything to change that.

Go back and watch second season Lamps up until November. We were absolutely flying playing some of the best football we'd played in years until the players gave up over winter like usual. 

30 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

We've been a stable top 4 team since 2004, Jorginho hasn't done anything to change that.

Go back and watch second season Lamps up until November. We were absolutely flying playing some of the best football we'd played in years until the players gave up over winter like usual. 

He has done a lot for us to keep us at that level, since we could finish below top 4 prior to him coming here and never afterwards till this point in time which is almost his whole contract duration. Finishing 10th and then winning the league only to finish 5th doesn't mean we were a stable top 4 team at the time either though.

Lampard never came close to fight for the league title as a manager.

51 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

He has done a lot for us to keep us at that level, since we could finish below top 4 prior to him coming here and never afterwards till this point in time which is almost his whole contract duration. Finishing 10th and then winning the league only to finish 5th doesn't mean we were a stable top 4 team at the time either though.

Lampard never came close to fight for the league title as a manager.

Both those occasions were turbulent seasons where the coach had a complete meltdown and either got sacked or knew they were leaving. That was never and has never been the norm since Roman. Your memory must be terrible if you can't remember how good we were at the start of the second season under Lamps. Just a shame the players couldn't keep it up. We were right up there with Liverpool and City. 

Well I think we can all agree, he isn't having a great World Cup.

33 minutes ago, just said:

Well I think we can all agree, he isn't having a great World Cup.

True, been a bit like Rice's UCL campaigns so far.

9 hours ago, Argo said:

True, been a bit like Rice's UCL campaigns so far.

You really don't like the fact every big club is after Rice and no one wants Jorgi, do you?

11 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

You really don't like the fact every big club is after Rice and no one wants Jorgi, do you?

So cringe, by your logic nobody wants Kante either lol as if it's not normal to wait till you can get a player for free... Stop it you're embarrassing yourself.

Just now, Gol15 said:

So cringe, by your logic nobody wants Kante either lol as if it's not normal to wait till you can get a player for free... Stop it you're embarrassing yourself.

Wasn't talking to you but its about the love of your life, so clearly you've jumped in to his rescue again.

Kante is injured 90% of a season and would still go PSG if he left us. Jorginho is always fit and no one has once enquired about him. He'll be at Hellas Verona after his contract is up. 

6 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Wasn't talking to you but its about the love of your life, so clearly you've jumped in to his rescue again.

Kante is injured 90% of a season and would still go PSG if he left us. Jorginho is always fit and no one has once enquired about him. He'll be at Hellas Verona after his contract is up. 

Cringe...

10 hours ago, Argo said:

True, been a bit like Rice's UCL campaigns so far.

Something I found out the other day Argo. Italy qualified for every World Cup finals for 60 years. Then Jorginho came into the team and they have missed out on two in a row. Perhaps that's just coincidence. 

But then again if Jorginho was allegedly so influential in them winning the Euros is he not then also a big part of the problem with them not qualifying for the World Cups?

27 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Cringe...

yes you are 👍

47 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

yes you are 👍

100% you. Jorginho spent his best years at my club, couldn't care less where he ends up, many of our former players ended up in lower teams once they got over 30 years old but to say that nobody wants him while everyone in the whole world wants Rice, next level cringe...

1 hour ago, just said:

Something I found out the other day Argo. Italy qualified for every World Cup finals for 60 years. Then Jorginho came into the team and they have missed out on two in a row. Perhaps that's just coincidence. 

But then again if Jorginho was allegedly so influential in them winning the Euros is he not then also a big part of the problem with them not qualifying for the World Cups?

More influential than DeclanRice that you can bet your house on. He was a big part in both Italy winning the Euro and not qualifying for this World Cup, his penalty miss made the difference. Nobody denied that.

Edited November 23, 20223 yr by Gol15

5 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

100% you. Jorginho spent his best years at my club, couldn't care less where he ends up, many of our former players ended up in lower teams once they got over 30 years old but to say that nobody wants him while everyone in the whole world wants Rice, next level cringe...

If these are his best years I pity his next club and its no surprise Napoli bottled the league. As mentioned before, go force yourself into another conversation and be a good white knight in the name of Jorginho!

5 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

If these are his best years I pity his next club and its no surprise Napoli bottled the league. As mentioned before, go force yourself into another conversation and be a good white knight in the name of Jorginho!

Cringe 😄

2 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

You really don't like the fact every big club is after Rice and no one wants Jorgi, do you?

 

2 hours ago, just said:

Something I found out the other day Argo. Italy qualified for every World Cup finals for 60 years. Then Jorginho came into the team and they have missed out on two in a row. Perhaps that's just coincidence. 

But then again if Jorginho was allegedly so influential in them winning the Euros is he not then also a big part of the problem with them not qualifying for the World Cups?

There's one key difference though.

I've never stated Jorginho is a perfect player and have even gone record saying I'd happily see him replaced if someone like FDJ was the replacement.

By comparison with Rice you and others are not exactly shy in your willingness for him to arrive here in what would be a record signing which by proxy compares him favourably to the likes to Enzo Fernandez, FDJ, Casemiro etc so it's only fair I hold him to those standards.

2 minutes ago, Argo said:

 

There's one key difference though.

I've never stated Jorginho is a perfect player and have even gone record saying I'd happily see him replaced if someone like FDJ was the replacement.

By comparison with Rice you and others are not exactly shy in your willingness for him to arrive here in what would be a record signing which by proxy compares him favourably to the likes to Enzo Fernandez, FDJ, Casemiro etc so it's only fair I hold him to those standards.

No ones saying Rice is the perfect player. Just that he's a huge upgrade on Jorginho.