6 hours ago, LongtimerLurker said:

I would resign Jorginho and Kanté on deals that suit the club's best interests. Say what you want about the players, but they have continued to bring success to this club. Fun fact since Jorginho signed we have never finished out of the top 4, and have reached at least one cup final in each season. 

Coincidence? Perhaps, I personally think he brings more to the table than just his playing skill set. He's the vice captain for a reason and despite his obvious limitations he also has very visible strengths to his game. I personally think it's a mistake to let him go for free. 

Resigning Jorginho and Kanté doesn't mean we can't sign another world class midfielder. In an ideal world if we're playing a back 4 we will need at least 5/6 midfielders of similar quality to protect us against injuries. RLC imo isn't cut out for this level. Whilst Mount and Gallagher can play as CMs and AMs. I would rather see those two as the player playing further forward in a midfield 3. Meaning we need another CM and another DM. Perhaps we sign a top tier mid that has the qualities to play as both a DM and CM. Thus allowing Jorginho, Kanté and Kova to be rotated with them. 

Add Rice or Enzo to our current midfielders and we look solid. We just need to shift some of the squad players imo that aren't at the same level.

I think both Jorginho and Kante should leave the club in the summer personally, not saying it would be risky to simply let go of both of them at the same time but if we sign someone like Enzo it won't matter much;

Jorginho is 31, giving him a new extension makes little to no sense if we are to sign a new star player in the midfield since Jorginho is the type of a player that makes the team tick, you either count on him or not because he's not really an impact sub. Keeping him while reducing his role wouldn't be the best move, specially since there is no young player that he could mentor at this point in time, I thought that might have been an option for us while Gilmour had the potential but if we sign a new star player, whoever that is he won't need Jorginho. Then even if he could influence the match by coming in e.g. min 70', that would be mainly the team increasing the control of the match but he doesn't bring aggression nor a direct attacking playstyle so if we're behind, that's not the sub that would automatically mean more shots on target or more goals scored at all.

Kante, from what I have read wants to stay so he being our legend I think the club could offer him a 1 year extension but think about it he's not really contributing anymore and it has happened before that as soon as he's available the squad needed to re-adapt to him automatically starting matches again. The question is if he would accept a slightly smaller role? If so, then it would be a good thing to have him but if not we might struggle a lot to find a clear playstyle going, if he would expect to be an automatic starter.

Obviously signing someone like Enzo is crucial for us and promoting Casadei to the first team squad while keeping Gallagher would give us a decent depth even if we lose both of them. For a 4-3-3 to have Enzo, Kovacic, Casadei, Gallagher, Mount and maybe even Zakaria, that sounds great to me. For a 4-2-3-1, Enzo and Kovacic would be the main partners in crime and the bench for them would be Zakaria and Casadei while Gallagher would be the backup for Mount so that's a healthy rotation there.

2 hours ago, Gol15 said:

I think both Jorginho and Kante should leave the club in the summer personally, not saying it would be risky to simply let go of both of them at the same time but if we sign someone like Enzo it won't matter much;

Jorginho is 31, giving him a new extension makes little to no sense if we are to sign a new star player in the midfield since Jorginho is the type of a player that makes the team tick, you either count on him or not because he's not really an impact sub. Keeping him while reducing his role wouldn't be the best move, specially since there is no young player that he could mentor at this point in time, I thought that might have been an option for us while Gilmour had the potential but if we sign a new star player, whoever that is he won't need Jorginho. Then even if he could influence the match by coming in e.g. min 70', that would be mainly the team increasing the control of the match but he doesn't bring aggression nor a direct attacking playstyle so if we're behind, that's not the sub that would automatically mean more shots on target or more goals scored at all.

Kante, from what I have read wants to stay so he being our legend I think the club could offer him a 1 year extension but think about it he's not really contributing anymore and it has happened before that as soon as he's available the squad needed to re-adapt to him automatically starting matches again. The question is if he would accept a slightly smaller role? If so, then it would be a good thing to have him but if not we might struggle a lot to find a clear playstyle going, if he would expect to be an automatic starter.

Obviously signing someone like Enzo is crucial for us and promoting Casadei to the first team squad while keeping Gallagher would give us a decent depth even if we lose both of them. For a 4-3-3 to have Enzo, Kovacic, Casadei, Gallagher, Mount and maybe even Zakaria, that sounds great to me. For a 4-2-3-1, Enzo and Kovacic would be the main partners in crime and the bench for them would be Zakaria and Casadei while Gallagher would be the backup for Mount so that's a healthy rotation there.

I like the Enzo, Kova part, but would want to see Casadei start to get game time.   I'm a little puzzled as to why we haven't seen him yet, although our early cup exit (and nasty FA cup draw) may be part of that.  But, we've almost nothing to lose this season, and I really want to see some game time.

Where I add to your comment is I'd love a Rice in that midfield, but would mean Zakaria and potentially Gallagher are surplus to requirements (although with a 4-3-3 Gallagher and Mount should be in that or rotating).

https://twitter.com/cesc4official/status/1605984156902531072

@Scott Harris said it best - Houdini would have been proud of todays disappearing act.  I cut Jorginho some slack, as well, he's the only midfielder we have that seems to be consistently fit.  But, he offers absolutely nothing in defense or attack.  200+ games for Chelsea, <15 assists. 

He was proper crap today, hardly knew he was on the pitch in that second half. If he wants a new contract he needs to earn it because more performances like this and I'd say his race is run here.

If you play Jorginho as your lone defensive midfielder in 2023 in the Premier League and expect that to work, you are out of your mind. Especially when you field the slowest possible back four behind him when you have other options on the bench.
So this ultimately goes back to Potter’s choices again. Everyone knows the squad is lacking and some of us fiercely defended Tuchel with this when we ran into problems (but still reached our goals ultimately) but now we have a squad that’s still lacking but also a manager who’s misusing the options we do have which is why we are even worse off now.

20 hours ago, PhilH930 said:

200+ games for Chelsea, <15 assists. 

Here is one of the greatest midfielders in the history of football saying how hard it is to make goal contributions from his position.

That's on the two infront of him.

1 hour ago, Argo said:

Here is one of the greatest midfielders in the history of football saying how hard it is to make goal contributions from his position.

That's on the two infront of him.

I wonder, how many assists have Kova and Kante delivered? 

16 hours ago, Argo said:

Here is one of the greatest midfielders in the history of football saying how hard it is to make goal contributions from his position.

That's on the two infront of him.

Jorginho isn’t even close to Xavi.. Xavi, Thiago and their ilk as deep lying playmakers were different class. 
 

they didn’t pass to their CB everytime under a bit of pressure. Jorginho offers nothing in a 433- apart from liability.

20 minutes ago, Jangz said:

Jorginho isn’t even close to Xavi.. Xavi, Thiago and their ilk as deep lying playmakers were different class. 

That's not the point I'm making though is it? I was merely countering a post trying to use lack of assists against him.

21 minutes ago, Jangz said:

they didn’t pass to their CB everytime under a bit of pressure. 

I keep hearing this but then I remember a lot of Jorginho's best performances here have come against Liverpool, so somethings not adding up.

2 minutes ago, Argo said:

That's not the point I'm making though is it? I was merely countering a post trying to use lack of assists against him.

I keep hearing this but then I remember a lot of Jorginho's best performances here have come against Liverpool, so somethings not adding up.

Agree on first one.

Second one - you surely remember the unlimited dross he has served up against others too.

5 minutes ago, Jangz said:

Agree on first one.

Second one - you surely remember the unlimited dross he has served up against others too.

Ofcourse but that get covered more than  enough.

But if he was totally and completely susceptible against pressing sides then Liverpool would eat him alive but instead in terms of individual performances it's arguably his favourite opponent.

On 03/01/2023 at 01:35, axman2526 said:

I wonder, how many assists have Kova and Kante delivered? 

Kovacic had a decent last season under Tuchel and Kante actually had a decent end product under Sarri.

Both needed Jorginho in order to be at their best.

8 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Kovacic had a decent last season under Tuchel and Kante actually had a decent end product under Sarri.

Both needed Jorginho in order to be at their best.

yeah Kante was crap before Jorginho came in... 😂

5 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

yeah Kante was crap before Jorginho came in... 😂

Not even close to what I talk about here, if we are to look at the end product which is the topic, Kante's best season was under Sarri.

1 minute ago, Gol15 said:

Not even close to what I talk about here, if we are to look at the end product which is the topic, Kante's best season was under Sarri.

Had better end product under Lampard. 

18 hours ago, Jangz said:

Jorginho isn’t even close to Xavi.. Xavi, Thiago and their ilk as deep lying playmakers were different class. 
 

they didn’t pass to their CB everytime under a bit of pressure. Jorginho offers nothing in a 433- apart from liability.

So a better player openly said that it's hard to get assists from playing as the deep lying playmaker and argues that he could do more while in a more forward role. Busquets still plays that DM position both for Barcelona and Spain recently at the world Cup, so much so that Rodri played as a CB. Did anyone ever complain about him not getting assists?

If it were true that Jorginho offered us nothing in a 4-3-3, Sarri would have been sacked before Christmas that first season and Jorginho would have been sent on loan. Clearly the opposite happened.

Edited January 4, 20233 yr by Gol15

3 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Had better end product under Lampard. 

Nope.

1 hour ago, Gol15 said:

Nope.

5 goals in 53 under Sarri or 3 in 26 under Lamps.

A goal every 0.09 games or every 0.12 games. More productive.

2 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

5 goals in 53 under Sarri or 3 in 26 under Lamps.

A goal every 0.09 games or every 0.12 games. More productive.

Check full season like normal people do, under Sarri he had the most productive season with 4 goals and 4 assists in 36 PL matches.

10 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Check full season like normal people do, under Sarri he had the most productive season with 4 goals and 4 assists in 36 PL matches.

And i shall counter with 2 goals and 4 assists in26 matches 2021/22 under Tuchel in the league, a better return per game. 

1 hour ago, Gol15 said:

So a better player openly said that it's hard to get assists from playing as the deep lying playmaker and argues that he could do more while in a more forward role. Busquets still plays that DM position both for Barcelona and Spain recently at the world Cup, so much so that Rodri played as a CB. Did anyone ever complain about him not getting assists?

If it were true that Jorginho offered us nothing in a 4-3-3, Sarri would have been sacked before Christmas that first season and Jorginho would have been sent on loan. Clearly the opposite happened.

Sitting in front of of a back four (which he apparently can't do) that included pre Tuchel Rudiger, Luiz, Alonso and Kepa and we allowed 39 goals in 38 games.

Not title winning standard but not bad for a supposed raging liability Infront of that back four.

51 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

And i shall counter with 2 goals and 4 assists in26 matches 2021/22 under Tuchel in the league, a better return per game. 

So he scored more goals under Sarri, thus had the better season when it came down to end product.

40 minutes ago, Argo said:

Sitting in front of of a back four (which he apparently can't do) that included pre Tuchel Rudiger, Luiz, Alonso and Kepa and we allowed 39 goals in 38 games.

Not title winning standard but not bad for a supposed raging liability Infront of that back four.

Some will say that's cause we had Hazard... But I remember how most pundits were raving about how in order to stop Chelsea you shut down Jorginho cause everything went through him.

37 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

So he scored more goals under Sarri, thus had the better season when it came down to end product.

 

1 hour ago, RIP Mourinho said:

5 goals in 53 under Sarri or 3 in 26 under Lamps.

A goal every 0.09 games or every 0.12 games. More productive.

If you just want to talk about goals now and not assists refer to above point.