57 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Some will say that's cause we had Hazard... But I remember how most pundits were raving about how in order to stop Chelsea you shut down Jorginho cause everything went through him.

The common excuse when that one was brought up was that we had so much of the ball.

I guess that's partly true but then if we're having so much of the ball while Jorginho is breaking records for touches of the thing that pretty much invalidates the narrative that he crumbles under the slightest bit of pressure.

35 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

 

If you just want to talk about goals now and not assists refer to above point. 

I just say the same thing, best end product season under Sarri for Kante and under Tuchel for Kovacic. In both of those Jorginho played a key role.

3 hours ago, Gol15 said:

Some will say that's cause we had Hazard... But I remember how most pundits were raving about how in order to stop Chelsea you shut down Jorginho cause everything went through him.

Hmm, I don't think you understand Sarriball 

20 hours ago, Gol15 said:

So a better player openly said that it's hard to get assists from playing as the deep lying playmaker and argues that he could do more while in a more forward role. Busquets still plays that DM position both for Barcelona and Spain recently at the world Cup, so much so that Rodri played as a CB. Did anyone ever complain about him not getting assists?

If it were true that Jorginho offered us nothing in a 4-3-3, Sarri would have been sacked before Christmas that first season and Jorginho would have been sent on loan. Clearly the opposite happened.

i never said that he should provide assists - so what is your point? I said Jorgi is very limited system player - he slows possession down with too many touches and frequent sideways/backwards passing. 

Infact maybe it would have been better if he had been sacked at Christmas.. Once teams figured out Jorginho and Sarri we were abysmal in the league winning 8 in 18. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018–19_Chelsea_F.C._season .

 

 

That too in a team that had more quality than this lot. Prime Hazard, Kante, better forwards in the form of Willian and Pedro. etc. In a system designed for him. The fact that you have to go back to his first 6 months to find consistent form tells all one needs to know.

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Jangz said:

i never said that he should provide assists - so what is your point? I said Jorgi is very limited system player - he slows possession down with too many touches and frequent sideways/backwards passing. 

Infact maybe it would have been better if he had been sacked at Christmas.. Once teams figured out Jorginho and Sarri we were abysmal in the league winning 8 in 18. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018–19_Chelsea_F.C._season .

 

 

That too in a team that had more quality than this lot. Prime Hazard, Kante, better forwards in the form of Willian and Pedro. etc. In a system designed for him. The fact that you have to go back to his first 6 months to find consistent form tells all one needs to know.

 

 

 

 

Look at Jorginho's impact in that first season, without him Sarri doesn't get to finish top 3 at all, that's all.

20 hours ago, Gol15 said:

I just say the same thing, best end product season under Sarri for Kante and under Tuchel for Kovacic. In both of those Jorginho played a key role.

I just showed you Kante's best season wasn't under Sarri under whatever metric you chose but okay.

2 hours ago, Gol15 said:

Look at Jorginho's impact in that first season, without him Sarri doesn't get to finish top 3 at all, that's all.

1 win in our last 5. We got top 4 because of other teams somehow being worse than us, not by us playing well. Same in the Lampard season, top 4 was down to other teams f**king up worse than we did at the end of the season.

The only impact Jorginho has done was help steer the way for this club to play a more progressive game. 

We've outgrown him tremendously since 2020. Thank you for your service but its time to move on. Jorginho will never turn us into title contenders. 

23 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

I just showed you Kante's best season wasn't under Sarri under whatever metric you chose but okay.

Not really true though.

20 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

1 win in our last 5. We got top 4 because of other teams somehow being worse than us, not by us playing well. Same in the Lampard season, top 4 was down to other teams f**king up worse than we did at the end of the season.

We got top 3. 

5 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

The only impact Jorginho has done was help steer the way for this club to play a more progressive game. 

We've outgrown him tremendously since 2020. Thank you for your service but its time to move on. Jorginho will never turn us into title contenders. 

Without him I have no doubts that Sarri wouldn't have been able to change the way we played, from Conte's back 3 to a fluid possession style in a 4-3-3. Jorginho is a living proof that a good manager can implement his style with just 1 key signing. Had we signed Enzo, he would have saved the season for Potter.

Edited January 5, 20233 yr by Gol15

6 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Not really true though.

Literally read the previous posts, i gave you the stats.

6 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

We got top 3. 

On the back of our oppositions horrendous form, not due to our amazing possessional play like you say. Post Christmas we were horrific once teams got used to the new style. Some of the most boring football i've ever seen played at the bridge. You're re-writing history for the sake of Jorginho.

53 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

We got top 4 because of other teams somehow being worse than us, not by us playing well.

That's funny because I checked at the time this narrative was being banded about and i can't remember exactly but I think our points haul that season would be enough for top 4 in all but 3 of the previous PL season's (since it became 4 for a UCL place) and every season since.

Also that "1 win in 5" was always a bit of harsh stick to throw. Almost everyone was losing at Anfield that season and draws at Old Trafford and the King Power aren't exactly disaster results for title challengers let alone top four contenders. The only result that we really should have done better on was Burnley at home.

I dont know how anyone can be happy with our transition into the style of play we have now, its f**king atrocious and has been for years.

4 minutes ago, Argo said:

That's funny because I checked at the time this narrative was being banded about and i can't remember exactly but I think our points haul that season would be enough for top 4 in all but 3 of the previous PL season's (since it became 4 for a UCL place) and every season since.

Also that "1 win in 5" was always a bit of harsh stick to throw. Almost everyone was losing at Anfield that season and draws at Old Trafford and the King Power aren't exactly disaster results for title challengers let alone top four contenders. The only result that we really should have done better on was Burnley at home.

What Lampard managed the season after getting top 4 and outscoring Sarri-ball after losing prime Hazard in the summer and no recruitment was much more impressive.

2 minutes ago, dkw said:

I dont know how anyone can be happy with our transition into the style of play we have now, its f**king atrocious and has been for years.

Why on earth would we want to win league titles counter attacking when we can recycle possession between our number 6 and CB's for 70% of a game and lose 6-0 to title rivals?

12 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Why on earth would we want to win league titles counter attacking when we can recycle possession between our number 6 and CB's for 70% of a game and lose 6-0 to title rivals?

Conte and Spurs are showing full well why counter attacking systems aren't sustainable in the Prem anymore. 

4 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Conte and Spurs are showing full well why counter attacking systems aren't sustainable in the Prem anymore. 

No, Spurs are just being Spurs. Could give Pep the job and a billion pound  and they'd still bottle the league. Conte beat all the managers and teams currently in the league counter attacking.

8 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

No, Spurs are just being Spurs. Could give Pep the job and a billion pound  and they'd still bottle the league. Conte beat all the managers and teams currently in the league counter attacking.

That makes no sense. 

Spurs win, its because of Conte. 

Spurs lose, its because of Spurs. 

 

It's the football. 

 

Conte's football is primarily waiting for the opposition to make a mistake and then countering. When opposition limit those mistakes, IE low blocks, Conte's teams struggle. 

1 hour ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Literally read the previous posts, i gave you the stats.

On the back of our oppositions horrendous form, not due to our amazing possessional play like you say. Post Christmas we were horrific once teams got used to the new style. Some of the most boring football i've ever seen played at the bridge. You're re-writing history for the sake of Jorginho.

I gave you too.

It's pretty amazing to switch from a counter-attacking 30% possession sucker punch squad to a 65% possession team that suddenly tries to move with and without the ball and break down defenses. I remember the pundits saying how everything went through Jorginho in the buildup, mark him out of the match and you can beat Chelsea they said but the problem was that as soon as you do that another player is free. Sarri did the job, finished top 3 and won Europa League in his own style of play, just like Conte won FA Cup in his own way.

From my recollection, teams stopped us by pinning our fullbacks so they couldn't make the pass forward or into midfield. When Jorginho did manage to get the ball, the other CMs weren't anywhere near him, hence why he had to constantly recycle. 

Correct me if I am wrong. 

22 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

That makes no sense. 

Spurs win, its because of Conte. 

Spurs lose, its because of Spurs. 

 

It's the football. 

 

Conte's football is primarily waiting for the opposition to make a mistake and then countering. When opposition limit those mistakes, IE low blocks, Conte's teams struggle. 

It makes perfect sense, Conte dominated the Prem with Chelsea, he's trying to do the same at a club that has failure ingrained into their DNA. No manager can win at Spurs. 

As you said above, whenever Spurs wins Kane and Son take all the credit, never seen anyone credit Conte.

1 minute ago, RIP Mourinho said:

It makes perfect sense, Conte dominated the Prem with Chelsea, he's trying to do the same at a club that has failure ingrained into their DNA.

Yep, and there's a reason he's has to resort to going to said club.

4 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

I gave you too.

It's pretty amazing to switch from a counter-attacking 30% possession sucker punch squad to a 65% possession team that suddenly tries to move with and without the ball and break down defenses. I remember the pundits saying how everything went through Jorginho in the buildup, mark him out of the match and you can beat Chelsea they said but the problem was that as soon as you do that another player is free. Sarri did the job, finished top 3 and won Europa League in his own style of play, just like Conte won FA Cup in his own way.

Just say it again for me, why do you think Kante had his most productive season under Sarri? I just want to be able to tell you why you're wrong again and see if you understand this time.

Surely you've just summarised Jorginho's weaknesses yourself. He only works in one system and if you close him down quickly in that system he's ineffective and it doesn't work. If we didn't have Hazard at the very peak of his powers under Sarri that would have been an absolute disaster of a year. As menrtioned, Lampard did a much more impressive job the following year.

1 minute ago, Argo said:

Yep, and there's a reason he's has to resort to going to said club.

Because of his personality and ability to fall out with his own shadow?