On 25/11/2022 at 05:27, RIP Mourinho said:

We signed Frank Lampard from a West Ham team that finished 15th for big money, might be before you followed Chelsea but that one turned out pretty well pal. 

This argument you're making about West Ham's league position really isn't the 'gotcha' you think it is lmao

Big money? We paid 11 for Lampard that year. Juventus paid 33 for Buffon. We stole Lampard like City stole Haaland. 

15 hours ago, BS66 said:

Big money? We paid 11 for Lampard that year. Juventus paid 33 for Buffon. We stole Lampard like City stole Haaland. 

£11m for Chelsea in 2001 was huge, we haven't always been this rich kid that can throw money about and break records. This for a player too that not everyone thought was worth the money, he became the player he was at Chelsea. I believe he was our second most expensive signing in history at the time behind JFH? 

Edited December 1, 20223 yr by RIP Mourinho

6 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

£11m for Chelsea in 2001 was huge, we haven't always been this rich kid that can throw money about and break records. This for a player too that not everyone thought was worth the money, he became the player he was at Chelsea. I believe he was our second most expensive signing in history at the time behind JFH? 

You still trying to make a parallel between Lampard and Rice? LOL

11 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

You still trying to make a parallel between Lampard and Rice? LOL

I mean there's several parallel's that are undeniable.

- both midfielders

- both coming from West Ham for big money

- both have many doubters before signing

I know it may be quite difficult to admit but there's no denying the similarities are there

59 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

I mean there's several parallel's that are undeniable.

- both midfielders

- both coming from West Ham for big money

- both have many doubters before signing

I know it may be quite difficult to admit but there's no denying the similarities are there

HAHAHA

Edit: Sorry but... HAHAHAHAHA

Kante and Drinkwater, both midfielders, both coming from Leicester for small money, both had doubters before we signed them.

PPS. There's no denying that you lost the plot, I'm done here.

Edited December 1, 20223 yr by Gol15

21 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

HAHAHA

Edit: Sorry but... HAHAHAHAHA

Kante and Drinkwater, both midfielders, both coming from Leicester for small money, both had doubters before we signed them.

PPS. There's no denying that you lost the plot, I'm done here.

And there were parallels between Kante and Drinkwater too then. Do you know what a parallel even is? I'm not so sure.

Difference being Rice is young, hungry and wanted by most big clubs in the world (including us for several windows). Drinkwater on the other hand was clearly a panic buy during a horrific transfer window after failing to secure our primary targets. At least Rice IS our primary target and we're going for him.

3 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

And there were parallels between Kante and Drinkwater too then. Do you know what a parallel even is? I'm not so sure.

 

No there weren't and I'll spell it out for you;

It was obvious that you tried to insinuate that Rice could be just as good as our best player ever, Lampard, by trying to argue about how their price was somehow similar in your own mind and that somehow it matters that both come from West Ham and that both were midfielders, so that was the parallel you tried to make there.

Then I by using the example of how we first bought Kante and then Drinkwater showed that your reasoning if very much flawed, meaning that it doesn't matter that both are midfielders and that both were signed from the same club and so on, since obviously one is a legend and the other one is a flop. So there you have it

Jorginho has emailed me. Despite our differences we have always been quite close and share a passion for late 70's disco music and the expressive fashion trends of that era. Jorgi has said he is prepared to give up football, never make a sideways pass ever again and burn all his Evelyn Champagne King records if @Gol15 and @RIP Mourinho will just STOP.

2 hours ago, just said:

Jorginho has emailed me. Despite our differences we have always been quite close and share a passion for late 70's disco music and the expressive fashion trends of that era. Jorgi has said he is prepared to give up football, never make a sideways pass ever again and burn all his Evelyn Champagne King records if @Gol15 and @RIP Mourinho will just STOP.

What we hoped we were getting .. until we got what we got 

https://youtu.be/3SEAsLUxdk8

8 hours ago, Jangz said:

What we hoped we were getting .. until we got what we got 

https://youtu.be/3SEAsLUxdk8

When Jorginho passes 90% of how S.Busquets did in this video, the usual response to that is that he is given all the space and how sad it is that our opposition let's him pass the ball around.

On 03/12/2022 at 11:55, Gol15 said:

When Jorginho passes 90% of how S.Busquets did in this video, the usual response to that is that he is given all the space and how sad it is that our opposition let's him pass the ball around.

 

On 01/12/2022 at 09:21, RIP Mourinho said:

£11m for Chelsea in 2001 was huge, we haven't always been this rich kid that can throw money about and break records. This for a player too that not everyone thought was worth the money, he became the player he was at Chelsea. I believe he was our second most expensive signing in history at the time behind JFH? 

You originally said it was huge, presumably in the context of transfers generally. Now you are qualifying it by saying for Chelsea at the time. Lampard was one third the cost of a good goalkeeper, in relative terms Rice is going to cost a lot more. 

14 hours ago, BS66 said:

You originally said it was huge, presumably in the context of transfers generally. Now you are qualifying it by saying for Chelsea at the time. Lampard was one third the cost of a good goalkeeper, in relative terms Rice is going to cost a lot more. 

It was huge in the context of Chelsea, I don't really get what point you're trying to make here? 

So if we sign Rice for £70m in summer is that not huge because PSG paid £220m for Neymar a couple of years ago?

On 05/12/2022 at 04:13, RIP Mourinho said:

It was huge in the context of Chelsea, I don't really get what point you're trying to make here? 

So if we sign Rice for £70m in summer is that not huge because PSG paid £220m for Neymar a couple of years ago?

If 70 is huge what was Kepa, Havertz and Lukaku? It’s all relative. If the club owners want to splash the cash how they do it is completely up to them. It’s the total cost and ROI that matters. Big transfer fee and low wages or low fee and big wages can be the same.

Right now Alexis MacAllister is looking like a brilliant Brighton signing but if we’d spent 20 on him when they did everyone would have been whining about it. 

MacAllister is just an in-form Mason Mount. They do the same thing. 

Reading that Jorginho and his agent want to stay and are pushing for a new deal but the club have been set on letting both he and Kante go. 

Probably for the better if the plan truly is to rejuvenate the midfield. 

1 hour ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Reading that Jorginho and his agent want to stay and are pushing for a new deal but the club have been set on letting both he and Kante go. 

Probably for the better if the plan truly is to rejuvenate the midfield. 

I'd actually be up for both staying if it was for reasonable wages (both in length and pay) and they would both be second choice to new signings however they probably won't accept that which is fair enough.

I don't think it would be a bad idea to let them both go but if it was a choice between the two I'd keep Jorgi purely for reliability, the past couple of seasons have shown we can't even get half a season out of Kante anymore unfortunately.

2023 already looks better than 2022....

 

1 hour ago, dkw said:

2023 already looks better than 2022....

 

Would it be fair to say if/when Rice comes to replace him in his minimum requirement has to be top 2 in the league and a UCL win with no more than 3 goals conceded?

Edited December 24, 20223 yr by Argo

52 minutes ago, Argo said:

Would it be fair to say if/when Rice comes to replace him in his minimum requirement has to be top 2 in the league and a UCL win with no more than 3 goals conceded?

Just getting to within 18 points of the title winners would be an improvement?  As for the pair likely to leave, personally, I think Kante will be harder to replace. Whilst winning the Champions League was a collective team effort, personally, I believe without the four MoM performances from Kante in the knockout rounds it would have been another season of 'we got so close'. I do emphasise though that this is my personal opinion which others may disagree. Merry Christmas to all.

3 minutes ago, charierre said:

Just getting to within 18 points of the title winners would be an improvement?  As for the pair likely to leave, personally, I think Kante will be harder to replace. Whilst winning the Champions League was a collective team effort, personally, I believe without the four MoM performances from Kante in the knockout rounds it would have been another season of 'we got so close'. I do emphasise though that this is my personal opinion which others may disagree. Merry Christmas to all.

I personally believe all players had an individual part of that team which would have been very hard to replace.

Replace the wingbacks we likely don't win, replace Kai with an out and out striker likewise, replace Jorginho with a standard DM and there's not a snowball in hells in chance we play Madrid off the park, replace Azpi or Rudi with Zouma and we're significantly weakened. Werner and Mount's tactical roles would have been very tough to replicate elsewhere too. Kepa instead of peak Mendy needs no explanation.

Ironically, the one player that had a somewhat decent understudy was Silva as thankfully proved in the final.

But back to Rice, I've heard for the last two years how much of a liability Jorginho is and how great he is, so surely it's reasonable for me to expect the results to reflect that? 

5 minutes ago, Argo said:

I personally believe all players had an individual part of that team which would have been very hard to replace.

Replace the wingbacks we likely don't win, replace Kai with an out and out striker likewise, replace Jorginho with a standard DM and there's not a snowball in hells in chance we play Madrid off the park, replace Azpi or Rudi with Zouma and we're significantly weakened. Werner and Mount's tactical roles would have been very tough to replicate elsewhere too. Kepa instead of peak Mendy needs no explanation.

Ironically, the one player that had a somewhat decent understudy was Silva as thankfully proved in the final.

But back to Rice, I've heard for the last two years how much of a liability Jorginho is and how great he is, so surely it's reasonable for me to expect the results to reflect that? 

As I said get within 18 points of the winners is a start. If Rice did come in, its a mistake to see him as a direct replacement for certain other players. All have particular attributes to their game. You do seem to have a particular downer on him, no sure why. He is a good player that has facets to his game that we currently lack. Mainly his ball winning, add to that he has gained a lot of experience for a young player at the top level. His ability to keep fit is remarkable( though we would soon put a stop to that) and placed alongside a more technical player, he could be an asset at the price quoted. Forget all this nonsense that he would be signed cos he supports the club, we are a business! Anyway no use getting your knickers in a twist over a player we may or may not sign ( football is a job to him and like any opportunity, he would consider each offer before making a choice). Yes he does come from a family background of Chelsea supporters but so did Luke Shaw who was similarly touted once up a time. He could still stay at West Ham and become a legend is a similar way to Le Tissier did at Southampton. Have a good Christmas, I now need to go and get busy!

2 minutes ago, charierre said:

As I said get within 18 points of the winners is a start. If Rice did come in, its a mistake to see him as a direct replacement for certain other players. All have particular attributes to their game. You do seem to have a particular downer on him, no sure why. He is a good player that has facets to his game that we currently lack. Mainly his ball winning, add to that he has gained a lot of experience for a young player at the top level. 

Because I don't believe he has the ball progressing skills required in that position at this level. At West Ham under Moyes it's not a problem but in England it shows as he's often hiding behind the opposition when Stones and Maguire are trying to play out.

Also I'm a bit concerned about the excuses he's been making whenever England have f**ked up. After the nations league demotion he defended four games of zero goals by saying it's fine because they score loads in training (imagine this thread had Jorgi came out and said similar after Newcastle to defend the recent performances) and defended the France elimination by practically saying "oh well atleast we stopped Mbappe" (imagine if Jorginho said "oh well we stopped Saka" after Arsenal). Compare that to Reece and his first words to Koulibaly, night and day.

I never said he doesn't have his plus points but with how important ball progression is in his position and compared to the type of players in the teams we hope to compete with (Rodri, Partey, Bruno G, Thiago, likely Enzo and even Kalvin Phillips) he falls short in my opinion.

I'll be delighted if I've got it wrong and will probably spend the early period trying to convince myself I am when we sign him (it's inevitable in my opinion) but I can't see it and never have.