1 hour ago, RIP Mourinho said:

May be a surprise but yes the result does matter in football. 

the stance i've always have is we won the trophies despite J5, not because of him. 

Strange stance to be honest. As long as he wasn't trying to score own goals or something he had has much a part in the win as everyone else on the pitch. 

14 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

You can argue influence all you like but there is a reason it was always Jorginho + one Kante/Kovacic 

We destroyed Madrid last year with kova n kante.

 

3 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

We destroyed Madrid last year with kova n kante.

 

No, we didn't. 

Soon as the aggregate was level, Real went on the front foot.  This led to Kante misplacing a pass that led to the Vinicius goal and then failing to win a ball that led to the Benzema goal. 

Just now, Sconnie Blue said:

No, we didn't. 

Soon as the aggregate was level, Real went on the front foot.  This led to Kante misplacing a pass that led to the Vinicius goal and then failing to win a ball that led to the Benzema goal. I

Are you  a Madrid fans? 

Because not even a neutral fan will say that we did not destroy rm in bernabeu 

 

4 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

Are you  a Madrid fans? 

Because not even a neutral fan will say that we did not destroy rm in bernabeu 

Winning 3-2 is not destroying Real Madrid. Their mistake in classic Ancelotti fashion was sitting back, but once aggregate was level they went on the front foot which led to both Kante and Kovacic suffering. Particularly the former who was at fault for both goals. Again, you can argue influence all you like but our greatest performances under Tuchel came when it was Jorginho + one of Kovacic and Kante as it provided the right balance. 

As far as the Champions League final goes, this was a team performance. The entire back 3 each prevented a goal, Jorginho effectively led the build up, Kante was a menace in midfield, James and Chilwell both took full advantage of the width, Mount caused City's midfield problems, Werner's pace against the highline was effective just as much as Havertz's link up play and they both showed up when needed. 

2 hours ago, Argo said:

In that case if/when we sign the supposedly transformative upgrade Rice will you be holding him to the standards that he must improve on Jorginho's best efforts In each respective competition? 

He's young, got time to make mistakes and learn.

2 hours ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Come on mate. You can't disagree with the notion Jorginho's retention and build up ability has led to us running circles around Real Madrid and going toe to toe with City in 2021. 

Retention yes, build up no. Also its just too fun making comments i know Argo and Gol will bite at.

 

1 hour ago, Gol15 said:

He did say that Rice is the best midfielder in the whole league and he saw no fault of spending even 100m for him so if the only thing that is separating us from challenging for the league title is Jorginho, by all means let's see how well we can do with Rice being the key player instead, or better not!

I know later on the goal posts would change and suddenly it would be very much unfair to demand so much from Rice, but it is only using the same rules that were applied to Jorginho so that's basically a double standard.

The funny thing is that he also believes that no club wants to sign Jorginho, it went from something along the lines of "as soon as Sarri is gone Jorginho's career at Chelsea is also over" to "no club is interested in buying him that's the only reason he stayed here", so apparently we're the only big club in the world that would like to have him I mean how stupid are we and all of our managers that played him including Potter now too...?
But then you realise that as it stands, nobody wanted to buy Rice; Man United went for Casemiro even if he's 30 and gave him a 5 year contract, Pep went for Philips and gave him a 6 year contract and now there are people talking about how it wouldn't be a barrier for Rice to move out of London so I'll let you to read between the lines there  

Never once said this, i've always said Rodri is the best DM. Lie about what you want though, doesn't make a difference as your credibility on here is the lowest of the low.

Didn't even finish reading the rest of your ramble Gol, just checked and i was right no one wants to buy Jorginho. Name one club that has bid for him.

22 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

He's young, got time to make mistakes and learn.

Blimey, atleast people waited until Lukaku arrived until the excuses started!

32 minutes ago, Argo said:

Blimey, atleast people waited until Lukaku arrived until the excuses started!

Has anyone made excuses for Lukaku? Thought it was general consensus he was sh*t.

Just now, RIP Mourinho said:

Has anyone made excuses for Lukaku? Thought it was general consensus he was sh*t.

You'd think. 

The amount of "Players need to find his runs" argument wouldn't end. 

3 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Never once said this, i've always said Rodri is the best DM. Lie about what you want though, doesn't make a difference as your credibility on here is the lowest of the low.

Oh sorry, you never actually said that Rice is the best, you said one of the best/best available. Doesn't make it any better though as you have been convinced that he's worth 100m, which could mean that you basically see Rice as the 2nd best anyway which ultimately doesn't go against the sentiment that you rate him very very highly, which doesn't go against what I was saying so, just for the evidence sake:

On 27/05/2022 at 09:36, RIP Mourinho said:

Because he's been one of the best CM's in the league this year. Pogba went for £90m 6 years ago, £100m doesn't seem unreasonable for a player that will be the spine of the team for a decade. 

 

On 21/11/2022 at 14:50, RIP Mourinho said:

Rice intercepting absolutely everything for England in an attacking system today but people on this forum still think he can’t do it lmao he’s the best available CDM in the world 

🤣  🤣  

Edited January 16, 20233 yr by Gol15

3 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Didn't even finish reading the rest of your ramble Gol, just checked and i was right no one wants to buy Jorginho. Name one club that has bid for him.

Obviously you didn't, you're incapable of reading in context which is evident from my post above. I can name 2, Man City and Chelsea. So 2 more than how many bid for Rice...

Edited January 16, 20233 yr by Gol15

4 hours ago, Gol15 said:

Obviously you didn't, you're incapable of reading in context which is evident from my post above. I can name 2, Man City and Chelsea. So 2 more than how many bid for Rice...

And since those 2 bids....i.e, since his limitations have been exposed by the pace of the epl, how many more bids have come in?

8 hours ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Winning 3-2 is not destroying Real Madrid. Their mistake in classic Ancelotti fashion was sitting back, but once aggregate was level they went on the front foot which led to both Kante and Kovacic suffering. Particularly the former who was at fault for both goals. Again, you can argue influence all you like but our greatest performances under Tuchel came when it was Jorginho + one of Kovacic and Kante as it provided the right balance. 

As far as the Champions League final goes, this was a team performance. The entire back 3 each prevented a goal, Jorginho effectively led the build up, Kante was a menace in midfield, James and Chilwell both took full advantage of the width, Mount caused City's midfield problems, Werner's pace against the highline was effective just as much as Havertz's link up play and they both showed up when needed. 

You definitely a Madrid fan, no way any Chelsea fans can even say this. 

It’s kind of amazing that Jorginho can generate so much debate and passion. You wouldn’t think it. I guess it’s to his credit 

2 hours ago, Dean said:

It’s kind of amazing that Jorginho can generate so much debate and passion. You wouldn’t think it. I guess it’s to his credit 

Because he is by far the most divisive player that has ever played for Chelsea. 

His fans think he is wc. His hater think that the is awful. I have never seen player who many consider as wc to be considered awful or vice versa but that is jorgi. 

Edited January 17, 20233 yr by Bob stark

11 hours ago, Argo said:

Blimey, atleast people waited until Lukaku arrived until the excuses started!

this made me do a spit take 🤣🤣🤣

1 hour ago, Bob stark said:

Because he is by far the most divisive player that has ever played for Chelsea. 

His fans think he is wc. His hater think that the is awful. I have never seen player who many consider as wc to be considered awful or vice versa but that is jorgi. 

He is a top DM on his best day. His best qualities are/were beating the press with quick short passes. 

Anything else varies between form. As of late, teams just rush him and with our current lack of good options, he can't carry this out. 

We used to have forwards who would drop deep to be his outlet+James/Chilwell. 

He's a cog in a midfield machine. On his own, he becomes below average

5 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

And since those 2 bids....i.e, since his limitations have been exposed by the pace of the epl, how many more bids have come in?

He has been doing exactly the same stuff in Serie A and in EPL and in CL and in the EURO.

Multiple managers relied upon him. He won both huge silverware and individual awards.

We're a big team, it's not like someone could steal him anyway, Hazard got 1 bid once he decided to leave and not 20 bids and you can be sure that teams are just waiting for his contract to expire so that they can get him for free, it's one of the most normal things in football to wait 3 months prior to giving him a contract.

So like I said, you can't make it look as if we're the stupid club that wants him while everyone else is just amazingly smart, it has been reported that Juventus and Milan are looking to sign him and even Barcelona as well, next time come up with an actual smart argument cause West Ham is actually a smaller club and nobody bid for Rice as of yet.

20 minutes ago, Deino said:

He is a top DM on his best day. His best qualities are/were beating the press with quick short passes. 

Anything else varies between form. As of late, teams just rush him and with our current lack of good options, he can't carry this out. 

We used to have forwards who would drop deep to be his outlet+James/Chilwell. 

He's a cog in a midfield machine. On his own, he becomes below average

I completely agree with your point your point that jorgi is a nice cog in midfield machine, he does his role very well and not having outlet hurt jorgi.

For me jorgi is not a star. His jobs is to make other people to be the star which is a very important role. 

 

 

2 hours ago, Bob stark said:

Because he is by far the most divisive player that has ever played for Chelsea. 

His fans think he is wc. His hater think that the is awful. I have never seen player who many consider as wc to be considered awful or vice versa but that is jorgi. 

Does anyone actually think he's world class? The people on here that seem to rate him the most are also desperate to see us sign Enzo. If it weren't for the bashing he has been getting pretty much since Lampard was sacked (such that wasn't even relaxed after the UCL win) I'd barely even bother commenting on this thread.

I would say it's actually Mount that falls into the category of your last paragraph. To use the most extreme examples I've seen comments that we should build the team around him (we shouldn't) to the opposite extreme that he wouldn't even get into Everton's team (would walk into it).

10 hours ago, Gol15 said:

Oh sorry, you never actually said that Rice is the best, you said one of the best/best available. Doesn't make it any better though as you have been convinced that he's worth 100m, which could mean that you basically see Rice as the 2nd best anyway which ultimately doesn't go against the sentiment that you rate him very very highly, which doesn't go against what I was saying so, just for the evidence sake:

 

🤣  🤣  

So my point stands. Name another better DM available. Comments were made pre-WC so don't even bother trying to say Enzo. 

10 hours ago, Gol15 said:

Obviously you didn't, you're incapable of reading in context which is evident from my post above. I can name 2, Man City and Chelsea. So 2 more than how many bid for Rice...

Bids from 5 years ago when he was at Napoli, i'll ask again. Name a team that's tried to buy him off us. 

6 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

And since those 2 bids....i.e, since his limitations have been exposed by the pace of the epl, how many more bids have come in?

You can't tell him mate. He lacks comprehension skills.

1 hour ago, Gol15 said:

He has been doing exactly the same stuff in Serie A and in EPL and in CL and in the EURO.

Multiple managers relied upon him. He won both huge silverware and individual awards.

We're a big team, it's not like someone could steal him anyway, Hazard got 1 bid once he decided to leave and not 20 bids and you can be sure that teams are just waiting for his contract to expire so that they can get him for free, it's one of the most normal things in football to wait 3 months prior to giving him a contract.

So like I said, you can't make it look as if we're the stupid club that wants him while everyone else is just amazingly smart, it has been reported that Juventus and Milan are looking to sign him and even Barcelona as well, next time come up with an actual smart argument cause West Ham is actually a smaller club and nobody bid for Rice as of yet.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/jan/16/arsenal-declan-rice-top-summer-transfer-target-optimistic-west-ham-chelsea

Top of the league wanting Rice. Mid table Italian clubs want J5. The difference.