36 minutes ago, Spiller86 said:

I think the squad point is fair. I bang on a lot about our sh*t recruitment and the sad thing is we're now left with the dregs of that plus a bunch of players who fitted Sarri's style but not Franks.

He has done a great job of finally injecting youth and on the main they have done well. I hope we get the squad changes right in the summer so we can see his real football.

That said, there are some issues that have been happening all season that need to be fixed. They won't purely be fixed in the transfer market. Frank is a young manager himself and still learning but in the same way we expect to see progress from Tammy, Mount etc. we should also expect to see progress from him and signs he can fix the issues we have been watching all year. 

Oh, I totally agree. We all hope Lamps IS the right man and we all accept that this season, due to the circumstances he has been given something of a free-ride (with the exception of a few on this Forum!)

But he'll know more than anyone that next season will be totally different. IF he is backed and he brings in the players he wants, he will be expected to deliver. Maybe not to win trophies, but for signs of continual improvement and closing the gap and a massive improvement in home results. But that's next season, for now he just needs to get us over the line for top 4 and knock the dippers out of the FA Cup.

16 minutes ago, Nibs said:

Oh, I totally agree. We all hope Lamps IS the right man and we all accept that this season, due to the circumstances he has been given something of a free-ride (with the exception of a few on this Forum!)

But he'll know more than anyone that next season will be totally different. IF he is backed and he brings in the players he wants, he will be expected to deliver. Maybe not to win trophies, but for signs of continual improvement and closing the gap and a massive improvement in home results. But that's next season, for now he just needs to get us over the line for top 4 and knock the dippers out of the FA Cup.

Yup. Question with us is whether he will be backed or whether we'll have more Drinkwaters and Zappacostas. 

For me I don't think we need major surgery. A new striker, new centre back, a new left back and a central midfielder who is mobile and can press with Mount and we'll be in good shape.

That's well within our reach. 

1 minute ago, Spiller86 said:

Yup. Question with us is whether he will be backed or whether we'll have more Drinkwaters and Zappacostas. 

For me I don't think we need major surgery. A new striker, new centre back, a new left back and a central midfielder who is mobile and can press with Mount and we'll be in good shape.

That's well within our reach. 

Disagree here, I feel we do need major surgery. 3 of the back 4 need to be upgraded, James the survivor. We clearly need a new option in goal. Add that to the new striker and midfielder you suggested and that would be half the side upgraded, along with our new signing from Ajax already. Would call that major surgery myself.

26 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Disagree here, I feel we do need major surgery. 3 of the back 4 need to be upgraded, James the survivor. We clearly need a new option in goal. Add that to the new striker and midfielder you suggested and that would be half the side upgraded, along with our new signing from Ajax already. Would call that major surgery myself.

I agree. Without the transfer ban we would have expected a few players to come in over the last 2 windows, especially with Hazard leaving and the squad already looking under quality last season. Ideally we need a few quality signings just to catch up with where we should have been going into this season. I am not sure we need to replace 3 of the back 4. I would say definitely a top quality left back and center back though. Rudiger, Tomori, or Zouma would be fine as the other CB I reckon. 

10 minutes ago, forbzy said:

I agree. Without the transfer ban we would have expected a few players to come in over the last 2 windows, especially with Hazard leaving and the squad already looking under quality last season. Ideally we need a few quality signings just to catch up with where we should have been going into this season. I am not sure we need to replace 3 of the back 4. I would say definitely a top quality left back and center back though. Rudiger, Tomori, or Zouma would be fine as the other CB I reckon. 

Do you not think we need to freshen up our attack, i think we need to splash out on a top cf.

2 hours ago, Nibs said:

Football (and this Forum in particular) is all about opinions. It's what it's all about and none of us are going to agree on everything.

I don't think Lamps is above criticism and he will no doubt hold up his hands and admit he has got things wrong at times this season. He's a young manager still learning so it's to be expected. BUT it amazes me how many people think they could do a better job and actually have the front to come out with things like "why didn't he start Willian and Pedro". f**k me, have you not seen those two for the majority of this season? Lamps isn't exactly spoiled for choices and I;m sure if RLC, Pulicic and CHO had been fit and available we would have seen a different line-up, but for folk to honestly think Willian and Pedro were the answer last night then they can't have been seeing what I have this season.

Summer clear-out, a number of quality signings, injured players back to full fitness to give us squad to compete and THEN we can judge Lamps, not now when he's working with a VERY average squad of players.    

I'm no Willian fanboy, but I'm pretty sure everyone can agree he's done more than Barkley ever has so it isn't actually that wild a statement to say he should have started instead. This isn't me being wise after the event - I said it before kick-off to people around me at the ground. Just didn't post it here. And as I said when someone else challenged my view about Willian starting, surely everyone could see frank should have made the change at half-time?! Bayern are stronger regardless, but that was the case when we gave Barca a good game two years ago...man of the match that night? Willian.

Edited February 26, 20206 yr by The Brit

3 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Disagree here, I feel we do need major surgery. 3 of the back 4 need to be upgraded, James the survivor. We clearly need a new option in goal. Add that to the new striker and midfielder you suggested and that would be half the side upgraded, along with our new signing from Ajax already. Would call that major surgery myself.

I think you can do that over a couple of seasons.  Doesn't all need to be done at once. Striker, left back and centre back are the priorities for mine.

The key to a long term approach is to make sure that you have a clear direction about what type of football we want to play so that we don't waste money changing directions (which is what happened with Kepa and Jorginho).

47 minutes ago, Spiller86 said:

I think you can do that over a couple of seasons.  Doesn't all need to be done at once. Striker, left back and centre back are the priorities for mine.

The key to a long term approach is to make sure that you have a clear direction about what type of football we want to play so that we don't waste money changing directions (which is what happened with Kepa and Jorginho).

Actually Jorginho has been the main reason player-wise, as to why we could transform to an attacking and ball-possession team. Sarri and Lampard want to play this kind of football so Jorginho has been a great signing thus far, definitely not a waste of money. I think it's time that you stop this whole anti-Jorginho campaign, it doesn't look good on you.

11 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Actually Jorginho has been the main reason player-wise, as to why we could transform to an attacking and ball-possession team. Sarri and Lampard want to play this kind of football so Jorginho has been a great signing thus far, definitely not a waste of money. I think it's time that you stop this whole anti-Jorginho campaign, it doesn't look good on you.

It's hardly a campaign and it's hardly my view alone. I'm simply stating that Jorginho doesn't suit the high pressing style because he lacks mobility to cover the counter. Obvious for all to see against Bayern and others.

Edited February 27, 20206 yr by Spiller86

1 hour ago, Spiller86 said:

I think you can do that over a couple of seasons.  Doesn't all need to be done at once. Striker, left back and centre back are the priorities for mine.

The key to a long term approach is to make sure that you have a clear direction about what type of football we want to play so that we don't waste money changing directions (which is what happened with Kepa and Jorginho).

Surely goalkeeper is a top priority too. We cannot go another season  as we are and expect anything better.

1 minute ago, axman2526 said:

Surely goalkeeper is a top priority too. We cannot go another season  as we are and expect anything better.

You could be right. Would help if we weren't leaking so many chances though. 

15 minutes ago, Spiller86 said:

It's hardly a campaign and it's hardly my view alone. I'm simply stating that Jorginho doesn't suit the high pressing style because he lacks mobility to cover the counter. Obvious for all to see against Bayern and others.

Without Jorginho we wouldn't be top 4 this season and we wouldn't have been top 3 last season. You casually stated, as if Jorginho was a buy without a direction when in fact it was all the opposite from that and it takes very little to see that so it's up to you now, your view isn't close to what is really the reality here.

What you said isn't what you're claiming now, high press and counter attack are two different things and it's not an issue of only one player, to say the least. Kante, a two time player of the year, World Cup winner couldn't stop many counter attacks, for example.

Our defence is a problem and it has been before Sarri so it was automatically a problem for Lampard as well as Sarri didn't have the time to solve it he was hiding it with his tactic.

If you want to make this argument that we as a team want to press high, just look at the start of the season, we obviously pressed too high and we simply don't have the squad to deal with not only counter attacks but normal attacks when our backline is pressured, and that goes much deeper than saying: Jorginho is slow.

Edited February 27, 20206 yr by Gol15

Not one of Frank's finest nights. But here's hoping he learns from this. 
I've been saying this for a while but having a system that allows alot of decision making freedom for our players is letting him down. If all of our players had his ability and judgement we would be fine but as it stands it looks like we are all pulling in different directions particularly defensively. 
Bayern exploited the space between the defence and midfield expertly and pulled us out of shape everywhere. Similarly on the ball there didn't look to be any sense of coordinated movement beyond the runs off Giroud from goalkicks. Everyone just went where they wanted.
This approach will work with a mature team but not with the team we have. A bit more discipline is needed.

This is how I see it as well. Frank is a modern man and a smart one. Problem is many of his players are not and as you say need clear instructions. Sarri and Conte were managers that gave clear instructions. More mature players can do with less instructions but as we know we have a very young squad.

1 minute ago, evissy said:

On 26/02/2020 at 12:23, Spiller86 said:

Not one of Frank's finest nights. But here's hoping he learns from this. 
I've been saying this for a while but having a system that allows alot of decision making freedom for our players is letting him down. If all of our players had his ability and judgement we would be fine but as it stands it looks like we are all pulling in different directions particularly defensively. 
Bayern exploited the space between the defence and midfield expertly and pulled us out of shape everywhere. Similarly on the ball there didn't look to be any sense of coordinated movement beyond the runs off Giroud from goalkicks. Everyone just went where they wanted.
This approach will work with a mature team but not with the team we have. A bit more discipline is needed.

This is how I see it as well. Frank is a modern man and a smart one. Problem is many of his players are not and as you say need clear instructions. Sarri and Conte were managers that gave clear instructions. More mature players can do with less instructions but as we know we have a very young squad.

I compare it to a bit to Carlo's approach. He works so well with experienced squads because he empowers the players. That works really well if you have an experienced team. We do not.

@Gol15 I could write back but we've covered most of that ground already over recent months. I think suffice to say we may just have to agree to disagree.

21 hours ago, Spiller86 said:

I blame Barkley for missing that f**king penalty. We could have played Atalanta instead.

Doesn't work like that.

46 minutes ago, Spiller86 said:

 

@Gol15 I could write back but we've covered most of that ground already over recent months. I think suffice to say we may just have to agree to disagree.

I thought we were capable of more than just that, I'm a bit sad to see you using 1 player as the scapegoat in every topic when you talk about the big picture, this is where we go separate ways then, good luck mate.

11 hours ago, Nibs said:

Football (and this Forum in particular) is all about opinions. It's what it's all about and none of us are going to agree on everything.

I don't think Lamps is above criticism and he will no doubt hold up his hands and admit he has got things wrong at times this season. He's a young manager still learning so it's to be expected. BUT it amazes me how many people think they could do a better job and actually have the front to come out with things like "why didn't he start Willian and Pedro". f**k me, have you not seen those two for the majority of this season? Lamps isn't exactly spoiled for choices and I;m sure if RLC, Pulicic and CHO had been fit and available we would have seen a different line-up, but for folk to honestly think Willian and Pedro were the answer last night then they can't have been seeing what I have this season.

Summer clear-out, a number of quality signings, injured players back to full fitness to give us squad to compete and THEN we can judge Lamps, not now when he's working with a VERY average squad of players.    

Spot on Nibs, Lamps hands were tied on Tuesday night, if Pulisic, CHO, RLC, Kante had been fit we would of been more competitive, f**k me Willian and Pedro are definitely not the answer, saw enough of those two against Utd last week at the bridge. Anyway to be honest Spurs and Bournemouth are by far the more important games, we are only in the champs league to make up the numbers let's be honest. Anyway we could still have Sarri in charge that would be depressing.

10 hours ago, Spiller86 said:

Yup. Question with us is whether he will be backed or whether we'll have more Drinkwaters and Zappacostas. 

For me I don't think we need major surgery. A new striker, new centre back, a new left back and a central midfielder who is mobile and can press with Mount and we'll be in good shape.

That's well within our reach. 

Add in a new keeper Spiller, and thats the whole spine of the team! The problem is we all know those top class recruits would cost over 300 mill and we at best will only spend 150 mill, so reckon we will see more of the Drinkwater's, Zappers and Bakajoko's.

Rio Ferdinand goes to SB to meet Frank and the chaps.

Lots of behind the scenes, Frank on taking the job, interview with Fiyako etc. 

 

15 hours ago, Spiller86 said:

Yup. Question with us is whether he will be backed or whether we'll have more Drinkwaters and Zappacostas. 

For me I don't think we need major surgery. A new striker, new centre back, a new left back and a central midfielder who is mobile and can press with Mount and we'll be in good shape.

That's well within our reach. 

I totally agree about the need for new signings, but if we're aiming for quality rather than quantity, that list I highlighted will cost you a sh*tload of money in today's market. Ziyech was a good pickup for a modest amount, but that was an exception, we won't be able to save much if we want to significantly upgrade our squad, we're probably looking at spending at least 250-300m, if we're serious about it.

17 hours ago, forbzy said:

I agree. Without the transfer ban we would have expected a few players to come in over the last 2 windows, especially with Hazard leaving and the squad already looking under quality last season. Ideally we need a few quality signings just to catch up with where we should have been going into this season. I am not sure we need to replace 3 of the back 4. I would say definitely a top quality left back and center back though. Rudiger, Tomori, or Zouma would be fine as the other CB I reckon. 

I suspect we will only change our Left back, sure we could do with a better CB just don't think that will happen this summer as think instead we will strengthen GK, striker, midfield etc.

8 hours ago, chi blue said:

Add in a new keeper Spiller, and thats the whole spine of the team! The problem is we all know those top class recruits would cost over 300 mill and we at best will only spend 150 mill, so reckon we will see more of the Drinkwater's, Zappers and Bakajoko's.

 

2 hours ago, abramovich said:

I totally agree about the need for new signings, but if we're aiming for quality rather than quantity, that list I highlighted will cost you a sh*tload of money in today's market. Ziyech was a good pickup for a modest amount, but that was an exception, we won't be able to save much if we want to significantly upgrade our squad, we're probably looking at spending at least 250-300m, if we're serious about it.

You both make fair points. I think my thing is that you don't have to do this all at once. It's probably three windows worth of work. Starting with a forward and an organising centre back as priorities. 

I also think the best investment we can make now is in a new scouting set up and an approach that doesn't rely so much on agents. We've seen plenty of clubs like Dortmund, Napoli, Leipzig do very well without spending enormous sums. I'd like to see us do the same. Ziyech is a good start but that is the type of value we should be seeking generally. 

3 hours ago, Strider6003 said:

I suspect we will only change our Left back, sure we could do with a better CB just don't think that will happen this summer as think instead we will strengthen GK, striker, midfield etc.

I'd be really dissapointed if we don't get a new CB. As of now, I have little faith in our current group of CBs  and won't be confident going into next season with them.

3 hours ago, Spiller86 said:

 

You both make fair points. I think my thing is that you don't have to do this all at once. It's probably three windows worth of work. Starting with a forward and an organising centre back as priorities. 

I also think the best investment we can make now is in a new scouting set up and an approach that doesn't rely so much on agents. We've seen plenty of clubs like Dortmund, Napoli, Leipzig do very well without spending enormous sums. I'd like to see us do the same. Ziyech is a good start but that is the type of value we should be seeking generally.

Good points, agree mate

Edited February 27, 20206 yr by chi blue

22 hours ago, The Brit said:

I'm no Willian fanboy, but I'm pretty sure everyone can agree he's done more than Barkley ever has so it isn't actually that wild a statement to say he should have started instead. This isn't me being wise after the event - I said it before kick-off to people around me at the ground. Just didn't post it here. And as I said when someone else challenged my view about Willian starting, surely everyone could see frank should have made the change at half-time?! Bayern are stronger regardless, but that was the case when we gave Barca a good game two years ago...man of the match that night? Willian.

So Willian had a decent game against Barca a couple of years back. He's probably had a few decent games since then. Lamps has no doubt watched him this season fail more times than he's been any good, including last time out against Man Utd and decided to stick with the 11 that was a lot better against Spurs. I'm no fan of Barkley and expect him to be moved on in the Summer along with Willian and others, but I think Frank did the right thing is sticking with the 11. Would have been harsh to drop anyone. But I do agree, he should have made changes earlier - whether it would have had any bearing on the outcome though is anybody's guess.