The thing that annoys me the most is the UK had a heads up of what was coming from other countries, we had the opportunity to take action early and close the country down before things got too serious.  However we listened to the money and refused to do anything until it was too late.  Now we are opening up too quickly and listening to the money yet again.  The irony is that listening to the money men in the end is probably going to cost more in the long run, and it is us the general public who are going to end up paying back the money after the governments screw up.

17 minutes ago, DarkMata said:

The thing that annoys me the most is the UK had a heads up of what was coming from other countries, we had the opportunity to take action early and close the country down before things got too serious.  However we listened to the money and refused to do anything until it was too late.  Now we are opening up too quickly and listening to the money yet again.  The irony is that listening to the money men in the end is probably going to cost more in the long run, and it is us the general public who are going to end up paying back the money after the governments screw up.

I wouldn't say we're 'opening up'. Italy are reopening bars and restaurants today (even in Lombardy), something we're not doing for another month and a half minimum. So we're going to be doing it three or more weeks later than they did (in terms of where we're at if we follow the premise of being three weeks behind them).

The only difference between now and the seven weeks of lockdown is more excercise, you can meet one person at a distance and people who can't work from home go to work.

So many questions.

What happens if a player tests positive during the week before a match. Does the whole squad have to be quarantined and the Club play the second eleven? Or the match abandoned?

What happens if a player breaks the 'No Spitting' Rule? Is there a punishment for it? One of the (Leipzig I think can't remember was channel hopping) Bundesliga players at the weekend stuck his thumb in his mouth as a goal celebration. Then carried on with the game. Should he have been taken off? Or is that an overreaction?

If the FA adopts certain recommended changes such as an increase in the number of substitutes can we still say this Season is the same as the Pre-COVID season if different Rules are being applied? Can you have a competition where rules are applied differently at different times?

It's a mind-f**k.

On 15/05/2020 at 11:21, chiefBlueCFC said:

I'll probably tune in tomorrow and check out the Bundesliga to see how it is without fans and all that. I have a feeling it won't be too pleasing and will have a feel of watching a U18 world cup match. Not that the football can't or won't be entertaining, but the crowd and its presence just adds so much. And if they pump in crowd noise or have digital fans fill the stadiums (they're talking about doing that for the NFL this season) then its the same as FIFA or Madden on PS4.

 

I didn't watch any football this weekend lol

24 minutes ago, fitz said:

So many questions.

What happens if a player tests positive during the week before a match. Does the whole squad have to be quarantined and the Club play the second eleven? Or the match abandoned?

What happens if a player breaks the 'No Spitting' Rule? Is there a punishment for it? One of the (Leipzig I think can't remember was channel hopping) Bundesliga players at the weekend stuck his thumb in his mouth as a goal celebration. Then carried on with the game. Should he have been taken off? Or is that an overreaction?

If the FA adopts certain recommended changes such as an increase in the number of substitutes can we still say this Season is the same as the Pre-COVID season if different Rules are being applied? Can you have a competition where rules are applied differently at different times?

It's a mind-f**k.

The whole thing is farcical, social distancing, masks and tests before and after the game, no handshakes....but full blooded tackles, man marking and the usual cuddling at corners is all ok. All this while its fully accepted that the tests are nowhere near 100% exact. Basically f**k everyone we need to make some money.

On ?11?/?05?/?2020 at 12:19, coco said:

The TV revenue is made up of two factors, subscriptions, and advertising. They'll find it difficult to hold onto subscribers if football has no crowds. So that leaves advertising, but with few subscribers who will be watching the adverts ?

I can see a certain sector of sponsorship doing deals with sky/bt to get football back on the TV, the betting sector. I can see them throwing money at sky/bt to make sure the football is free to air, opening up the betting markets again.

Can't see that. Football fans are hanging out to see their team on the TV because they can't go to the games. Subscriptions would dwindle if the games were not shown at all. We pay to see the football and not the crowds. OK so the atmosphere will be lacking but lets face it, crowdless football is better than no football at all. If Chelsea were on the TV I'm not going to be watching or doing anything else. If the fans are watching the sponsors and the advertisers are paying.

I was hoping they could generate an atmosphere by letting us all log into a massive Skype and broadcast it in the stadium.

30 minutes ago, Argo said:

I wouldn't say we're 'opening up'. Italy are reopening bars and restaurants today (even in Lombardy), something we're not doing for another month and a half minimum. So we're going to be doing it three or more weeks later than they did (in terms of where we're at if we follow the premise of being three weeks behind them).

The only difference between now and the seven weeks of lockdown is more excercise, you can meet one person at a distance and people who can't work from home go to work.

In theory, you are right.  In practice, the world has gone mad already, beaches, parks and open spaces were crammed at the weekend, in the park near me at lunchtime there were obviously separate households picnicking, just an example of just how self-entitled and f**k-witted some people are can be seen at

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/local-news/disgusting-scenes-matlock-200-bikers-4140696

The trouble, as I keep on saying, is that this government WANT the herd to be infected, they tried actually saying that was the plan and got slaughtered by all responsible scientific knowledge, so now they are sneaking it in by relying on the selfishness and ignorance of a large part of the herd.

25 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

In theory, you are right.  In practice, the world has gone mad already, beaches, parks and open spaces were crammed at the weekend, in the park near me at lunchtime there were obviously separate households picnicking, just an example of just how self-entitled and f**k-witted some people are can be seen at

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/local-news/disgusting-scenes-matlock-200-bikers-4140696

The trouble, as I keep on saying, is that this government WANT the herd to be infected, they tried actually saying that was the plan and got slaughtered by all responsible scientific knowledge, so now they are sneaking it in by relying on the selfishness and ignorance of a large part of the herd.

This is the point we might as well be completely out of lockdown the way people are carrying on.  Mostly idiots that have been trusted to act sensibly or people misinterpreting the confusing rules from the government.  If anything this is a good precursor to how people will act if football is played at the stadiums, and that is they cannot be trusted one bit.  No doubt in my mind the same prats at the beaches will be outside the stadiums every game.

A poor decision in my view. Related to the article below in Saturday's Daily Telegraph wrote that in his view, players have the safest workplace in the country i.e. referring to Premier League training grounds. I'd love to know on what scientific evidence he based this comment. Of course, Carragher also works for Sky so he's bound to say that football should return so the broadcaster can show matches. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52704450

Premier League clubs have agreed to stage one of the return to training protocols which allows teams to start training in small groups from Tuesday.

Clubs voted unanimously on the decision at Monday's 'Project Restart' meeting.

Players must observe social distancing rules, and contact training is not permitted.

The first stage "has been agreed in consultation with players, managers, club doctors, independent experts and the government".

A Premier League statement added: "Strict medical protocols of the highest standard will ensure everyone returns to training in the safest environment possible.

"The health and wellbeing of all participants is the Premier League's priority, and the safe return to training is a step-by-step process.

"Full consultation will now continue with players, managers, clubs, the PFA and LMA as protocols for full-contact training are developed."

Also on Monday, a survey of 138 Premier League and EFL doctors and physiotherapists found more than half "do not fully understand their roles, responsibilities and potential liabilities" regarding return to training.

The Premier League had previously identified 12 June for matches to possibly start again but there is now an expectation this will need to be pushed back.

• La Liga clubs set to start group training
• Premier League clubs facing £340m TV refund even if season resumes
• Restrictions in place for team training under 'Project Restart'

The Premier League is likely to be given extra time to decide when it hopes to restart the 2019-20 season, after Uefa moved its executive committee meeting from 27 May to 17 June.

Uefa had previously said it wanted leagues to tell it what their plans were by 25 May, as these can only be signed off by the executive committee.

It took the Bundesliga nearly five weeks from starting non-contact training to playing matches. After Monday's announcement by the Premier League, that would leave them looking at either 19 or 26 June.

Official protocols sent to players and managers last week and obtained by the BBC revealed corner flags, balls, cones, goalposts and even playing surfaces will be disinfected after each training session.

Ongoing surveillance measures included in further guidance include twice-weekly testing and a daily pre-training questionnaire and temperature check.

Clubs have been carrying out coronavirus testing this weekend.

Newcastle United manager Steve Bruce said the return to training will be "as safe as it can be", with players arriving in kit and wearing snoods during training.

"It's been a really difficult time, but I hope with the news that phase one is about to start - and I must stress that phase one looks as if it's as safe as it can be - I'm sure everyone will be delighted that we're trying to make that effort," he told NUFC TV.

"In phase one we're allowed to train four to five people on one pitch, so basically a player has a quarter of a pitch to work within, so social distancing is not a problem. We'll train with eight to 10 at a time on two separate pitches.

"Everything is in place in the safety aspect. I've got no issues and I can tell the supporters the players and the staff are as safe as we possibly can be.

"We all understand that this virus isn't going to go away just like that - it's going to hang around a bit, but I think with the protocols in place we'll do everything we possibly can to get up and running again."

'Half of PL doctors do not understand'

The body that represents medical practitioners in football said half of Premier League doctors and physiotherapists that responded to their survey did not feel they had been "fully and effectively" consulted regarding returning to training.

Half also said they do not fully understand their "roles, responsibilities and potential liabilities" regarding return to training.

The figure is even greater among their counterparts in the EFL, with 68% of those who responded to the survey raising concern.

In total, 138 club medics across the top four divisions in England responded to the survey from the Football Medicine and Performance Association.

What happens next?

• 19 May: Players may return to group training under social distancing protocols
• 25 May: Uefa deadline for leagues to have finalised plan for restarting seasons
• 1 June: Government date for possible return of elite sport behind closed doors
• 12 June: Premier League initially aiming to return with first fixture

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52646282

The SPFL has been stopped and Celtic has been awarded as Champions and Hearts relegated. I wonder what Hearts will do next. As for the winners, I have to try and be objective given my support of Rangers!

3 hours ago, Argo said:

I wouldn't say we're 'opening up'. Italy are reopening bars and restaurants today (even in Lombardy), something we're not doing for another month and a half minimum. So we're going to be doing it three or more weeks later than they did (in terms of where we're at if we follow the premise of being three weeks behind them).

The only difference between now and the seven weeks of lockdown is more excercise, you can meet one person at a distance and people who can't work from home go to work.

The difference is that Italy and Spain have had proper lockdowns in place, where people were not allowed out of their homes except for essential shopping. The lockdown here has been as tough as when Spain decided to let people go for a walk last week. Also, these two countries have also started to easy up the lockdown with many less new cases per day than what we are seeing in the UK at present.

16 hours ago, RMH said:

The difference is that Italy and Spain have had proper lockdowns in place, where people were not allowed out of their homes except for essential shopping.

And thankgod we didn't, a lot of people's mental and physical health relies on getting a decent amount of fresh air, it's inhumane to deny a human being that.

If a little bit longer to open restraunts and pubs is the trade off to having basic human rights (and in some people's cases basic health) then that's fine by me.

2 hours ago, Argo said:

And thankgod we didn't, a lot of people's mental and physical health relies on getting a decent amount of fresh air, it's inhumane to deny a human being that.

If a little bit longer to open restraunts and pubs is the trade off to having basic human rights (and in some people's cases basic health) then that's fine by me.

It is not a bit longer to open up (as we are already open and at the same time as some regions of Spain), it has meant that more people have died in the UK. But yeah, mental health and that...

30 minutes ago, RMH said:

It is not a bit longer to open up (as we are already open and at the same time as some regions of Spain), it has meant that more people have died in the UK. But yeah, mental health and that...

More people per million have died in Italy and Spain. And as I've already adressed in the last post Spain and Italy have opened bars and restaurant's which isn't happening in the UK for one month and a half minimum.

And answer me this, for people that live in flats who's only window view looks onto another building,how do they get the fresh air and natural light needed to stay healthy if they can't go out? 

18 minutes ago, Argo said:

More people per million have died in Italy and Spain. And as I've already adressed in the last post Spain and Italy have opened bars and restaurant's which isn't happening in the UK for one month and a half minimum.

And answer me this, for people that live in flats who's only window view looks onto another building,how do they get the fresh air and natural light needed to stay healthy if they can't go out? 

Some regions of Spain (Madrid, Barcelona the ones that may be familiar to you) have not opened yet other than letting people go out with time restrictions. Other regions, with less prevalence of the virus have opened at 30% and travel restrictions within province (the equivalent of a county, unlike here where I can do to Cornwall from Hertfordshire if I want to have a stroll in the coast).

It makes me laugh when here in the UK we complain about lockdown because we live in flats with no fresh air nor nice views. Nearly 70% of the population in Spain live in flats versus around 14% of the UK... 86% of the population here have a garden to have a decent lockdown, go out and enjoy the sunshine, have a bbq and walk around mowing the lawn. I do exercise in my garage and the garden (and I don't live in a huge house). But are we here that much more fragile than the Spaniards? Have they different adaptations that we are not capable of doing this simple thing of staying at home and enjoy our gardens to prevent people dying? It makes me laugh (not to cry) when I talk to my neighbours and they now feel the need to go out for a walk of 6 miles every day when they always, always used the f**king car to travel 2 miles to the high street. So sorry, it is not impossible to do it here in the UK either.

10 minutes ago, RMH said:

Some regions of Spain (Madrid, Barcelona the ones that may be familiar to you) have not opened yet other than letting people go out with time restrictions. Other regions, with less prevalence of the virus have opened at 30% and travel restrictions within province (the equivalent of a county, unlike here where I can do to Cornwall from Hertfordshire if I want to have a stroll in the coast).

It makes me laugh when here in the UK we complain about lockdown because we live in flats with no fresh air nor nice views. Nearly 70% of the population in Spain live in flats versus around 14% of the UK... 86% of the population here have a garden to have a decent lockdown, go out and enjoy the sunshine, have a bbq and walk around mowing the lawn. I do exercise in my garage and the garden (and I don't live in a huge house). But are we here that much more fragile than the Spaniards? Have they different adaptations that we are not capable of doing this simple thing of staying at home and enjoy our gardens to prevent people dying? It makes me laugh (not to cry) when I talk to my neighbours and they now feel the need to go out for a walk of 6 miles every day when they always, always used the f**king car to travel 2 miles to the high street. So sorry, it is not impossible to do it here in the UK either.

Fresh air is the best most effective way to get Vitamin D alas boost your immune system and (shock horror) better protect yourself against the virus which is what this lockdown was supposedly about.

3 minutes ago, Argo said:

Fresh air is the best most effective way to get Vitamin D alas boost your immune system and (shock horror) better protect yourself against the virus which is what this lockdown was supposedly about.

Surely the best way to protect yourself against the virus is to not be in contact with anyone/anything you could catch it from?

7 minutes ago, dkw said:

Surely the best way to protect yourself against the virus is to not be in contact with anyone/anything you could catch it from?

Locking everyone away indefinitely isn't sustainable, forgetting everything else it will collapse the economy which will mean the NHS won't be armed to fight the virus properly. The world will have to start spinning again at some point at better to face any "risks" with a stronger immune system.

There's also excess problems being caused, over 500,000 have accessed a Suicide prevention course in the past 3 weeks (link below), domestic violence is on the rise and cancer patients aren't getting treatment which Prof Sikora estimates could cause a death toll (from cancer alone) higher than the current Covid numbers if this carries on much longer.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52702048

Who's saying indefinitely? Surely two months of proper lockdown (unlike what we've had here) is not indefinitely. And no, science has not proven that vitamin D or boosting your immune system prevents getting Covid-19 or dying from it. 

And cancer patients have not been able to get their treatment because our NHS has been clogged up by Covid-19 patients, thanks to a late no-lockdown.

Edited May 19, 20206 yr by RMH

21 minutes ago, Argo said:

Fresh air is the best most effective way to get Vitamin D alas boost your immune system and (shock horror) better protect yourself against the virus which is what this lockdown was supposedly about.

Do flats not have windows anymore? 

6 minutes ago, Argo said:

Locking everyone away indefinitely isn't sustainable, forgetting everything else it will collapse the economy which will mean the NHS won't be armed to fight the virus properly. The world will have to start spinning again at some point at better to face any "risks" with a stronger immune system.

There's also excess problems being caused, over 500,000 have accessed a Suicide prevention course in the past 3 weeks (link below), domestic violence is on the rise and cancer patients aren't getting treatment which Prof Sikora estimates could cause a death toll (from cancer alone) higher than the current Covid numbers if this carries on much longer.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52702048

So exactly how many tens of thousands of virus-related extra deaths do you think are acceptable to stop this happening as you describe?

7 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

So exactly how many tens of thousands of virus-related extra deaths do you think are acceptable to stop this happening as you describe?

How many cancer related deaths are acceptable?

4 minutes ago, RMH said:

Who's saying indefinitely? Surely two months of proper lockdown (unlike what we've had here) is not indefinitely. And no, science has not proven that vitamin D or boosting your immune system prevents getting Covid-19 or dying from it. 

And cancer patients have not been able to get their treatment because our NHS has been clogged up by Covid-19 patients, thanks to a late no-lockdown.

No one has said indefinitely, its his lovely little strawman he keeps using.

And your 100% right on the cancer treatment, I can back that up as unfortunately my mate passed away on the weekend for that exact reason. 

9 minutes ago, Argo said:

How many cancer related deaths are acceptable?

Not for me to say either way ,really,  I'm not the one proposing that we remove restrictions and deliberately allow people to go out and catch a lethal virus.   If pushed, my view is not one unnecessary death is acceptable.

You're proposing that, so answer the question.  How many unnecessary deaths are acceptable to you? Is it tens?  Hundreds?  Thousands? 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52726278

There were six positive tests for coronavirus across three Premier League clubs on Sunday and Monday, as the top flight prepares to resume in June.

The unnamed players or staff who have tested positive will now self-isolate for seven days.

A total of 748 players and staff from 19 clubs were tested. The remaining club did their tests on Tuesday so will be included in Saturday's results.

Squads are starting non-contact training from Tuesday.