We get to play with the benefit of hindsight 

2 hours ago, bisright1 said:

That's fine, that's a valid view. I just disagree. I think Werner and Havertz fit into our style. One has not been supported by the right passes and the other has struggled to adapt to the league - but I think he will get there. 

But some people say the board should have spent 70m instead on Rice and Lampard was right. That's idiotic. No one thought that was a better signing and Lampard wanted to shove him in defence. 

We've been over and over this with every failed signing, if only Torres had this, if only Morata had that. Truth is when you keep making  excuses for signings by saying things need to adjust to suit them, the game is already over. We ended up buying Benayoun and signing Benitez to be the silver bullets to fix Torres. Neither made a difference.

3 hours ago, bisright1 said:

But some people say the board should have spent 70m instead on Rice and Lampard was right. That's idiotic.

I mean he's currently having a fantastic season for West Ham that's above us in fourth with 2/3s of the season done.

I've always maintained that we would have been far better off if we had just listened to our managers in general. The board didn't listen to Mourinho, Conte or Lampard and we would have been far better off if we did.

Most people put all the blame on Conte for the total breakdown of the relationship between him and the board but now that it happened with Lampard as well I assume that will have adjusted their opinion a bit. And then obviously Mourinho before them two as well.

Edited February 23, 20215 yr by Sindre

31 minutes ago, Spiller86 said:

We've been over and over this with every failed signing, if only Torres had this, if only Morata had that. Truth is when you keep making  excuses for signings by saying things need to adjust to suit them, the game is already over. We ended up buying Benayoun and signing Benitez to be the silver bullets to fix Torres. Neither made a difference.

Well personally I think werner has been one of our best players since Tuchel joined. I think in his current role he is class. We just need the entire team to gel more, which hopefully Tuchel can make happen. 

11 minutes ago, Sindre said:

I mean he's currently having a fantastic season for West Ham that's above us in fourth with 2/3s of the season done.

I've always maintained that we would have been far better off if we had just listened to our managers in general. The board didn't listen to Mourinho, Conte or Lampard and we would have been far better off if we did.

If we listened to Lampard we'd have spent 70m on Rice and he'd be our centre back next to Zouma and we wouldn't have got Silva. Rice wouldn't be having a fantastic season, he'd be learning how to be a centre back. 

Would that have made our team better?

 

15 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

 

If we listened to Lampard we'd have spent 70m on Rice and he'd be our centre back next to Zouma and we wouldn't have got Silva. Rice wouldn't be having a fantastic season, he'd be learning how to be a centre back. 

Would that have made our team better?

 

We have no idea where Lampard wanted to play Rice, maybe he wanted him to play alongside Silva, would that have made the team better?

3 hours ago, Luiz4Chelsea said:

I think this post from half a year ago proves how ridiculous we fans can be when it comes to our assessment of the board's work. For me there's only two options here:

We either assume that we have some football knowledge, then we can't complain about how stupid a certain buy/sale was that six months earlier we celebrated the board for. We only get to realise that our judgements must have been equally clouded.

Or we assume that we have no clue about football, then we get to point out how the results prove that the club's recruitment is clearly not effective. But we DON'T get to suggest who the board should have rather signed because, once again, we have no clue.

Now that's if we're trying to be fair and honest. Instead many of us prefer to do sth more like

07/20 "come on board now go all out and sign that player, it would be absolutely insane not to!! That would finally make up for all the sloppy investment from recent seasons!!"

02/21 "yeah I know what I said, so what? Am I getting paid for this or what? If our board had only the slightest idea about football they should have realised it would have been much better to buy that other player!! Can't believe how badly run this club is!I"

I think that our board does have good knowledge. We have signed good players so I maintain the view that Lampard improved our squad.

We did sign a good LB, it was between Chilwell and Reguilon and Chilwell has slightly outperformed Reguilon in the PL so far.

T.Silva, Mendy - all upgrades.

Werner is a good striker and Havertz is one of the best talents out there, they maybe need more time to settle but both have contributed just not as much as people hoped for.

Ziyech is the one signing that I really expected much more of since last season we scored many goals so I expected him to have a stronger impact since he's an established winger playing in his best years. But even he was injured.

The one player that we didn't sign that was linked to us is Declan Rice - 1 player out of so many new signings, how about we work with what we got and give time to our new starters? I was backing Lampard to get him even during the January transfer window, only because if that player would help him so much then he must have him. But realistically we should be top 4 with the current squad even without Rice.

3 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

I think that our board does have good knowledge. We have signed good players so I maintain the view that Lampard improved our squad.

We did sign a good LB, it was between Chilwell and Reguilon and Chilwell has slightly outperformed Reguilon in the PL so far.

T.Silva, Mendy - all upgrades.

Werner is a good striker and Havertz is one of the best talents out there, they maybe need more time to settle but both have contributed just not as much as people hoped for.

Ziyech is the one signing that I really expected much more of since last season we scored many goals so I expected him to have a stronger impact since he's an established winger playing in his best years. But even he was injured.

The one player that we didn't sign that was linked to us is Declan Rice - 1 player out of so many new signings, how about we work with what we got and give time to our new starters? I was backing Lampard to get him even during the January transfer window, only because if that player would help him so much then he must have him. But realistically we should be top 4 with the current squad even without Rice.

Oh absolutely, I fully believe in the quality of all our summer transfers. Many of them have had tricky starts but the circumstances haven't been particularly easy. Particularly for Ziyech - I think he deserves a lot more time and opportunities before we cast our final judgement. The performances of all these players at their former clubs can be no differently explained than by genuine quality. The hastiness of considering them flop transfers a few months in actually baffles me, but that's a whole different topic.

I was talking about our approach towards the board in more general terms. And in those terms I will never - even if all our summer transfers turned out as total write-offs - blame the board for those transfers like I may for Drinkwater/Zappacosta/Bakayoko. Because I was thrilled about last summer's transfers.

37 minutes ago, dkw said:

We have no idea where Lampard wanted to play Rice, maybe he wanted him to play alongside Silva, would that have made the team better?

We have no idea if Lampard wanted to sign Rice. We have no idea if Lampard wanted to sign Havertz. Or Silva. Or Werner. 

This is all speculation. So if I'm not allowed to speculate that Lampard wanted Rice as a centre back (which was widely reported), then no one can speculate that Lampard or Conte or Jose or Sarri did or didn't get the players they wanted. 

 

FYI - I was one of the minority on here who wanted to sign Rice. Who thought he'd be a fantastic DM. I wanted to sell Kante to fund it. I didn't quite understand why we wanted him as a CB.

I'm just frustrated that every time a manager leaves, there's loads of people who attribute every transfer that went wrong to be the boards fault and every transfer that went right to be the manager. 

Edited February 23, 20215 yr by bisright1

In 2018 the decision to pay an extra £16m for Oblak was snubbed for Kepa, it’s Marina’s magnum opus at this club, thinking she was smart picking the younger ‘potential return on investment’ choice in a position famous for ageing gracefully anyway and knowing there isn’t any title winning side without a world class keeper. 

Marina’s Top 5 Chelsea moments:

1. Return of Jose and subsequent handling of Lukaku, De Bruyne & Salah (poisoned chalice title win and the desolation of Chelsea football club, setting us back 10 years)

2. Kepa debacle

3. Morata, Drinkwater & Bakayoko 

4. Handling of Conte

5. Hazard sale (one positive) other sales irrelevant as they are mostly due to screw ups anyway

(Nike deal not a footballing matter)

She has more power than any DOF out there, so all fair and good to connect her to all events.

16 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

We have no idea if Lampard wanted to sign Rice. We have no idea if Lampard wanted to sign Havertz. Or Silva. Or Werner. 

This is all speculation.

So why say this with such certainty?

 

Quote

If we listened to Lampard we'd have spent 70m on Rice and he'd be our centre back next to Zouma and we wouldn't have got Silva

 

32 minutes ago, dkw said:

So why say this with such certainty?

 

 

Jesus christ. Bore off. 

I was responding to someone with the certainty that Lampard wanted to sign this incredible DM and the board messed him about and it never listens to our managers.

You then chimed up for no reason.

Why are you getting involved? No one was talking to you. 

 

It's actually really depressing how many stupid chelsea fans are on this forum. You are one of them 

Edited February 23, 20215 yr by bisright1

Aw, did you get upset because someone dared question your amazing opinion? you are comfortably the worst poster on here, just constantly posting unsubstantiated strawman garbage, then just act like a spoilt little child when someone pulls you up on it. Do me a favour and put me on ignore if I trigger you so much you tedious little cretin.

12 minutes ago, dkw said:

Aw, did you get upset because someone dared question your amazing opinion? you are comfortably the worst poster on here, just constantly posting unsubstantiated strawman garbage, then just act like a spoilt little child when someone pulls you up on it. Do me a favour and put me on ignore if I trigger you so much you tedious little cretin.

You're the one who follows me around here trying to correct everything I say. Pulling quotes out of context trying to get a laugh. Jumping in on conversations and trying to start a fight. Pathetic. 

Either have an adult conversation or piss off. I've got a different opinion from you. I don't have to start every sentence with "in my opinion which may or may not be incorrect".

 

 

Edited February 23, 20215 yr by bisright1

1 hour ago, Term_X said:

In 2018 the decision to pay an extra £16m for Oblak was snubbed for Kepa, it’s Marina’s magnum opus at this club, thinking she was smart picking the younger ‘potential return on investment’ choice in a position famous for ageing gracefully anyway and knowing there isn’t any title winning side without a world class keeper. 

Marina’s Top 5 Chelsea moments:

1. Return of Jose and subsequent handling of Lukaku, De Bruyne & Salah (poisoned chalice title win and the desolation of Chelsea football club, setting us back 10 years)

2. Kepa debacle

3. Morata, Drinkwater & Bakayoko 

4. Handling of Conte

5. Hazard sale (one positive) other sales irrelevant as they are mostly due to screw ups anyway

(Nike deal not a footballing matter)

She has more power than any DOF out there, so all fair and good to connect her to all events.

Pff that's just the narrative of "look how this person has ruined us"... She has done more positive things than negative, by a large margin.

I will say one thing on this, I was devastated unlike many when Conte was fired. And I think its safe to say that was a big big mistake on part. The guy was a serial winner, we really should of backed him in the summer he won us the title. It was his and Guardiola's first season in the prem, Mourinho's first season as manager of utd, and he completely trumped them all, and was close to a double. I agree the following season wasn't great but we still ended it with a cup. I just think a lot of egos at Board level couldn't take someone who was clearly quite fiery and argumentative, but all its done is set us back as a club. Hes already starting to dominate Italian football now, and that's no mean feat with Juve almost guaranteed the title every year. 

1 hour ago, Oli said:

I will say one thing on this, I was devastated unlike many when Conte was fired. And I think its safe to say that was a big big mistake on part. The guy was a serial winner, we really should of backed him in the summer he won us the title. It was his and Guardiola's first season in the prem, Mourinho's first season as manager of utd, and he completely trumped them all, and was close to a double. I agree the following season wasn't great but we still ended it with a cup. I just think a lot of egos at Board level couldn't take someone who was clearly quite fiery and argumentative, but all its done is set us back as a club. Hes already starting to dominate Italian football now, and that's no mean feat with Juve almost guaranteed the title every year. 

I don’t know, he really was a massive pain in the arse after first season. He just kept moaning and moaning.

I also don’t think he handled the Diego situation very well.

He is a world class coach but he also has major flaws imo.

11 minutes ago, dansubrosa said:

I don’t know, he really was a massive pain in the arse after first season. He just kept moaning and moaning.

I also don’t think he handled the Diego situation very well.

He is a world class coach but he also has major flaws imo.

Whilst I agree with that, all his moaning was concentrated at the board and the press conferences. He gave his all for the results on the pitch and the fans, the way he celebrated each goal wildly and used to jump into the crowd. The fact he turned up to preseason after intense planning all summer to try and get us back to the title in his third year spoke volumes about the man, and his own personal ambitions as well as for Chelsea. He could of been our version of Klopp or Guardiola had he been given even a decent amount of time, and to be fair he performed wonders in even that time. 

A lot of that passion disappeared the second season, he spent the majority of it moaning and whining, moping on the bench during games. His actions with Costa was just stupid, the way he went about was ridiculous. There was also the summer before he left where he basically ignored phone calls for weeks from the board allegedly. He didn't want to be here in that 2nd season and made sure everyone knew.

Hes a very good coach but also a bellend. He's done the same thing at each club he's been to.

Ye but as a fan I couldn't care less if he complains about signings to the board 24/7 or not. He's done it at Juventus, he's done it at Chelsea, and now he's doing it at Inter, agreed. However all I'm interested in is Chelsea and our results on the pitch, and he's proven time and time again he's a winner. Whether he wants to moan about everything is his problem. And to be perfectly honest after performing heroics in his first year, and then given none of the signings, but instead the dross we did sign, I can't even blame the man. 

4 hours ago, Gol15 said:

Pff that's just the narrative of "look how this person has ruined us"... She has done more positive things than negative, by a large margin.

I would love to know them, as whenever the topic comes up it’s just comments like this and no outline of why. The aforementioned list is concrete but I’d actually love to see a positive top 5 outside the Hazard deal and non-football related stuff like Nike.

3 minutes ago, Term_X said:

I would love to know them, as whenever the topic comes up it’s just comments like this and no outline of why. The aforementioned list is concrete but I’d actually love to see a positive top 5 outside the Hazard deal and non-football related stuff like Nike.

I don't know tbf, but I doubt Marina actually picks the targets, she's just a negotiator I think. She's got the experience from running many of Roman's other firms. I doubt she would be put in a position to scout targets on their ability or potential. 

Overall, if I was to judge her on that, I think she's done a good job. She's got some great sales. When it comes to the Conte signings, well again, I believe Conte wanted those targets and we went after them. Look at the players he's signing at Inter, I think it's obvious Conte is sh*te in the transfer market. I don't think you can pin that on Marina, unless you specifically mean the price we paid for them. English players are usually always inflated due to the registering, so 40 million was probably the cheapest option for DD. Bakayoko at the time was considered a top prospect, (not by me) but many others. In hindsight it's easy to pick it apart. 

15 minutes ago, Slojo said:

I don't know tbf, but I doubt Marina actually picks the targets, she's just a negotiator I think. She's got the experience from running many of Roman's other firms. I doubt she would be put in a position to scout targets on their ability or potential. 

 

Yeah that's how I see it, she's basically the business manager/purchaser. Others will pick the targets, her role along with a team of analysts is then to buy that player at the best deal possible. Same when selling,  I highly doubt she picks who to sell.

6 minutes ago, Slojo said:

I don't know tbf, but I doubt Marina actually picks the targets, she's just a negotiator I think. She's got the experience from running many of Roman's other firms. I doubt she would be put in a position to scout targets on their ability or potential. 

Overall, if I was to judge her on that, I think she's done a good job. She's got some great sales. When it comes to the Conte signings, well again, I believe Conte wanted those targets and we went after them. Look at the players he's signing at Inter, I think it's obvious Conte is sh*te in the transfer market. I don't think you can pin that on Marina, unless you specifically mean the price we paid for them. English players are usually always inflated due to the registering, so 40 million was probably the cheapest option for DD. Bakayoko at the time was considered a top prospect, (not by me) but many others. In hindsight it's easy to pick it apart. 

It came straight from the horses mouth (in Cech) that she has final say on everything, she has the most power of any DOF amongst the top European clubs. We’re treating her like Tixiki by all sources and information we can gather as fans looking from the outside.

We haven’t progressed under her, the main benefit has been the skill set she brings to the boardroom when we negotiate but all the positive press has mainly come from backpedaling on duds she’s signed off on from the voices she chooses to hear. And yes, a great deal is also learnt from hindsight and we have plenty of that within the club and in the football world that Marina should learn from. As for the signings, more the fee and selection of the likes of Drinkwater and not over-spending when necessary, £16m extra for Oblak, if only to be a fly on the wall for that one!. We’re not in the worst of situations but let’s not act like she wasn’t at the helm when pivotal moments took place that shifted the club off course (ala Jose return and what we lost) and how that’s cost us. I just don’t buy the constant praise from certain sets of supporters.

4 minutes ago, Term_X said:

It came straight from the horses mouth (in Cech) that she has final say on everything,

Where did you see this? Also she may have a final say but I expect that will be more based on it being the right deal financially for the club more than the what the player brings on the pitch.

1 minute ago, Term_X said:

It came straight from the horses mouth (in Cech) that she has final say on everything, she has the most power of any DOF amongst the top European clubs. We’re treating her like Tixiki by all sources and information we can gather as fans looking from the outside.

We haven’t progressed under her, the main benefit has been the skill set she brings to the boardroom when we negotiate but all the positive press has mainly come from backpedaling on duds she’s signed off on from the voices she chooses to hear. And yes, a great deal is also learnt from hindsight and we have plenty of that within the club and in the football world that Marina should learn from. As for the signings, more the fee and selection of the likes of Drinkwater and not over-spending when necessary, £16m extra for Oblak, if only to be a fly on the wall for that one!. We’re not in the worst of situations but let’s not act like she wasn’t at the helm when pivotal moments took place that shifted the club off course (ala Jose return and what we lost) and how that’s cost us. I just don’t buy the constant praise from certain sets of supporters.

Hmm, she might have more power than I thought then, but I don't think that means she picks the targets herself. If she's in charge of the financial aspects of the club, which I presumed anyway, it's likely she would have the final say when it comes to finalising signings since it comes from the transfer budget. 

The Oblak one really does look like it's bit us in the ass, but you win some lose some. If the club decided to pay every little bit, they would get taken to the cleaners each and every time they put in a bid. If you look at Porto for example, they've often shot themselves in the foot when it comes to making sales. For example, they could've robbed us twice for Pereira and Hulk, but they won't budge an inch and a lot of the time it's worked for them. That's their transfer philosophy, they stick by it, people know that if they want to sign a player from them, you pay full price and that's it, they don't piss about. 

Sorry to give you nothing answers but it's the best I've got I'm afraid. I do try and avoid discussions when it comes to board members because it's always difficult to argue your points on, since most of the technical stuff we're in the dark on. I sat out of many Emenalo debates for that reason, because I had no idea what were his signings and what weren't.