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Paying for the overhaul


loz
Chelsea Megastore
Chelsea Megastore

Chelsea Megastore

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For me there is a need to be ruthless this summer and that has to include cashing in on players who we can get a good fee for who aren't going to be up to the requirement of moving us beyond a 'hoping to finish top four' team.

 

We have a bigger budget than most teams due to the transfer ban and the incoming fees of recent times however we have invested fairly heavily on Werner and Ziyech and its clear we have a lot of work to do to strengthen the back line and thats going to need a few big fees.

 

We can't just piss out another £100m without bringing in some decent fees.

 

With Pulisic and Ziyech presumably the first choice wingers the future of Odoi is in the balance. We still seem to want to keep Willian. Can't say I am keen on giving him a three year deal but if we can agree on a two year deal (at the most) then I think Odoi is a cashable asset that we should consider. I remain to be convinced he will ever be a top quality player and if we could sell him and reinvest in a quality left back or centre half that would be good business.

 

Jorginho is clearly out of favour now and there is an inevitability that he can be sold to provide money to reinvest. Its no secret I'm not the biggest fan of him, nor do I think he is terrible. I just think he is a player who would probably not be out of place playing for Arsenal and we clearly have higher ambitions than that. Again if we sold him and invested the money wisely in the back line it would be a clear improvement.

 

Similarly with someone like Barkley or RLC. Both show occasional signs of form but are they ever going to be anything more than a player who might stand out for Everton? I'm not convinced.

 

 

Then you get to the dilemma of Kepa. He isn't good enough. Never will be. The weaknesses in his game are too fundamental and will be with him throughout his career. We will take a massive hit on him if we sell him but we probably need to just bite that bullet if, and only if, we have an option for a quality replacement. If the replacement is too much of a gamble then we may as well stick with Kepa as he has a monster contract.

 

Lot of permutations to be considered and its complicated more when you consider if any club would actually want to pay a good fee for the likes of Emerson, Alonso, Batshuayi, as well as those mentioned above and players currently put on loan.

 

Its going to be interesting to see how different we look next season but if we invest too heavily in the final third of the pitch and go into next season with maybe only one new defender then we won't get near Liverpool or City.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Due to the rule changes coming in we have the entire loan army to sell which includes a few ‘big’ names.

We also have Batshuayi and Emerson in the first team who seem to be on the way out. 

We have Marina getting as more blood out of these stones that we thought possible. 

Coupled with not having any transfers for a year putting us in a great position for FFP I think we’ll be ok for funds. 

Edited by Munkworth
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Due to the rule changes coming in we have the entire loan army to sell which includes a few ‘big’ names.
We also have Batshuayi and Emerson in the first team who seem to be on the way out. 
We have Marina getting as more blood out of these stones that we thought possible. 
Coupled with not having any transfers for a year putting us in a great position for FFP I think we’ll be ok for funds. 
That's fair comment but we won't get much for the majority of the loan players.

Let's say we want two top drawer defenders then that's going to cost us north of £90m. We will probably scrape, in current market, to get £60m cumulatively for Batshuayi, Emerson, Moses and Bakayoko.
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We spectacularly differ regarding Hudson Odoi, i think injures is the only obstacle from him becoming a bonafide top level player, infact i think his ACL is the only reason he isn't already there.

It's vital we only sign players who would instantly improve us, especially in defense. Ake for example is only margainly better than what we have so signing him won't really improve anything and block a place if/when a suitable player became available. Previous case in point would be 2011 when Torres's presence meant we couldn't put our name in the hat for Aguero and peak Falcao.

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We spectacularly differ regarding Hudson Odoi, i think injures is the only obstacle from him becoming a bonafide top level player, infact i think his ACL is the only reason he isn't already there.
It's vital we only sign players who would instantly improve us, especially in defense. Ake for example is only margainly better than what we have so signing him won't really improve anything and block a place if/when a suitable player became available. Previous case in point would be 2011 when Torres's presence meant we couldn't put our name in the hat for Aguero and peak Falcao.
I agree entirely about only buying players who are a clear mark up.

Obviously disagree about Odoi but would really like to be proved wrong. I just struggle to see a quality player in the making. I see good ability but not great. I also see a lack of desire to impress. He strikes me as a coaster already and you expect youngsters to be busting a gut to stake a claim to a first team spot.
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20 minutes ago, loz said:

That's fair comment but we won't get much for the majority of the loan players.

Let's say we want two top drawer defenders then that's going to cost us north of £90m. We will probably scrape, in current market, to get £60m cumulatively for Batshuayi, Emerson, Moses and Bakayoko.

Think the incoming fees depend on how true/serious the rumours of interest from PSG in Bakayoko, Atletico in Alonso and Juve in Jorginho and Emerson are. Fees are so ridiculous and unpredictable that I could see us getting serious money if they are interested, the problem that would create imo is the fees we would have to pay to buy if we buy after selling when other clubs see the money we could have incoming. Difficult situation with buying as if we don't fold to demands of selling clubs for any top players we bid for then we could end up with a repeat of the Conte summer paying huge numbers for second rate players.

Barkley has improved a lot for me since being here, particularly this season but still not consistant enough, especially when our backs are against the wall. RLC hasn't looked good recently but despite the dissapointment I can't imagine anyone is surprised by that? I'd keep him for at least another year but he is probably at that make or break stage in terms of making it at a "top club".

I think I agree on Kepa. Obviously the crazy fee and contract clouds thoughts a bit with him. Agree completely though that a replacement needs to be proven, especially if there's a big cost. Makes you realize how spoilt we've been with keepers really. In my time we've had long...ish solutions with Cech, Cudicini and De Goey, the first two being best in the league at their time! Unfortunately Courtois never showed anything like the quality he did at Atletico along with none of the commitment of previous keepers and Kepa makes you wonder what exactly he was doing at Bilbao to justify £70m!

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I'd keep Hudson-Odoi for now. Agree he seems to lack desire though! Looks completely disinterested most of the time. Hopefully Frank or Jody can get through to him about not wasting the chance that he has.

Edited by jack h
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1 minute ago, jack h said:

think I agree on Kepa. Obviously the crazy fee and contract clouds thoughts a bit with him. Agree completely though that a replacement needs to be proven, especially if there's a big cost. Makes you realize how spoilt we've been with keepers really. In my time we've had long...ish solutions with Cech, Cudicini and De Goey, the first two being best in the league at their time! Unfortunately Courtois never showed anything like the quality he did at Atletico along with none of the commitment of previous keepers and Kepa makes you wonder what exactly he was doing at Bilbao to justify £70m!

Disagree re Courtois, he was a major reason we won those two titles with him here (14/15 especially). He may be an odious bellend but he's a bloody good keeper.

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Already brought in £20m for pasalic and nathan.

If real win the league, we get another £15m for hazard.

Bakayoko has been linked to a few clubs for £20m

Emerson looks likely to go back to Italy for £20m

Probably get £15m for Batshuayi, whose in his last year.

Zappacosta will likely head back to Italy for £10m.

Thats £100m of pretty likely transfers. 

I think we will be stuck with drinkwater, and a few others, but there is still the possibility of Barkley being sold who would bring in a signifant fee, and also zouma has been linked with a move away. 

We will save on wages with big earners like willian and Pedro off the books.

Transfer are ammortised over the length of the contract as well. So a £50m player on a 5 year contract, £10m a year salary, is actually seen as £20m per year signing for 5 years on the books. 

If we are saving that in wages from willian and pedro, it isnt as big of a hit financially as it would appear. 

We are in a very comfortable position, Ziyech and Werner will go towards last years figures aswell. 

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1 minute ago, Argo said:

Disagree re Courtois, he was a major reason we won those two titles with him here (14/15 especially). He may be an odious bellend but he's a bloody good keeper.

I just never saw the hype with him really, I never saw the game saving and match winning saves that we heard about at Atletico and that we'd had with Cech or even Carlo before we were competing for everything.

I could be wrong (probably am) but with hindsight I think we'd have still won those titles if we'd kept Cech in goal. Obviously putting faith in Courtois made sense at that time but I did think people were taking it for granted slightly that he'd stay with us like Cech did.

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22 minutes ago, loz said:

I agree entirely about only buying players who are a clear mark up.

Obviously disagree about Odoi but would really like to be proved wrong. I just struggle to see a quality player in the making. I see good ability but not great. I also see a lack of desire to impress. He strikes me as a coaster already and you expect youngsters to be busting a gut to stake a claim to a first team spot.

I don't see such lack of desire to be honest, given the Bayern transfer saga he wouldn't be popular in the dressing room if there was a hint of a poor attitude to go alongside that but he's very well liked by the squad.

His first season was excellent for a 17 year old, Pep was so worried about him coming on in the cup final he ordered an instant double up.

With this season while I'll fully concede he had a huge rut in the couple of months leading upto Christmas I liked what I saw either side of that. When he returned he was on one goal contribution a game for about a month and it wasn't just token assists it was genuine quality one's. Coming on vs Lillie for his CL debut and within a minute assisting the winner due to a perfectly weighted ball in, his Cesc esque ball over the top for Tammy at Southampton, his scan of surroundings to pick out Marcos Vs Newcastle (a phase of play where we often find Willian at his most frustrating) then from Christmas onwards in my eyes he picked up again, came on with us losing at The Emirates and helped us turn it around and in January (in my opinion) he was our best attacking player, against Burnley and the reverse fixture Vs Arsenal especially he was fantastic, then he had another injury which halted his progress.

Hopefully he can stay injury free as next season is a pretty big one for him, got a lot of competition here plus social competition with his best mate likely to rock up at United, hopefully those factors will bring out the best in him.

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20 minutes ago, jack h said:

I just never saw the hype with him really, I never saw the game saving and match winning saves that we heard about at Atletico and that we'd had with Cech or even Carlo before we were competing for everything.

I could be wrong (probably am) but with hindsight I think we'd have still won those titles if we'd kept Cech in goal. Obviously putting faith in Courtois made sense at that time but I did think people were taking it for granted slightly that he'd stay with us like Cech did.

I disagree tbh, I love Cech but I think his drop off after 10/11 (those nights in Barca and Munich aside) was quite steep. Although Cech did make a crucial save from Lukaku in the title season.

Courtois really stood up for us in the 2015 title run in when everyone around him bar Hazard were collapsing. Southampton at home he made a series of saves to prevent us losing, Hull away although he made a mistake he made up for it with a triple save at 2-2 and we went onto win, QPR he made some critical ones at 0-0.

The most impressive thing about him however is his ability in the air, I imagine it saved us many hairy moments.

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9 hours ago, loz said:

That's fair comment but we won't get much for the majority of the loan players.

Let's say we want two top drawer defenders then that's going to cost us north of £90m. We will probably scrape, in current market, to get £60m cumulatively for Batshuayi, Emerson, Moses and Bakayoko.

You’re joking right? If Marina only gets £60mil for all those players her reputation will be in tatters! There’s easily over £100mil there plus what’s left of the Hazard money. We just need to get CL football squared away and we’re laughing!

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You’re joking right? If Marina only gets £60mil for all those players her reputation will be in tatters! There’s easily over £100mil there plus what’s left of the Hazard money. We just need to get CL football squared away and we’re laughing!



We will be lucky to get more than £10m for Emerson and Moses will probably be south of that. If we get £20m offers for Batshuayi and Bakayoko I think we will throwing in the air fare.

All the daft paper talk of £30m plus bids for Batshuayi are fanciful.

If we get £100m for that four in the current economic climate then hats off Marina.
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I think everyone on this forum can agree we need new defenders. Particularly a CB and LB, but who to keep? I like Tomori, I know he's had his hiccups, but I really think he looks like a player, I'm surprised he's been dropped for so long. The other three are so hit and miss it's unreal... I don't even know if we should keep any of them, Zouma lacks consistency and is often caught falling asleep. Rudiger looks like a shadow of the player we saw against Barcelona, can't believe the change in him this season. Christensen just doesn't look cut out for this league/system, gets done for pace and just lacks the physicality for this league I think... And please for the love of god, we can't go into the new season with Emerson/Alonso. I'm very certain we won't though, Emerson looks like he's going to Inter, and Alonso will probably be our backup which I'm okay with, just please don't go for Chilwell. 

It's only the backline I think we should be overhauling and that's it. I'm confident with everything else, I know you'll disagree big time but I think we've got more than enough quality in midfield and now in attack with our latest additions. But to me it seems like Lampard's new style doesn't suit Jorginho or Kovacic, Lampard has been a tinker man all season so it's quite difficult to see how we'll be playing next season. I loved the pivot of Jorginho/Kovacic, but Lampard seems to be against playing it, he wants Kante in the middle and two attacking midfielders in front of him, that leaves Jorginho and Kovacic out of favour, who imo are two top midfielders who I would hate to see leave and would have a lot of success elsewhere. 

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9 minutes ago, loz said:

 

 


We will be lucky to get more than £10m for Emerson and Moses will probably be south of that. If we get £20m offers for Batshuayi and Bakayoko I think we will throwing in the air fare.

All the daft paper talk of £30m plus bids for Batshuayi are fanciful.

If we get £100m for that four in the current economic climate then hats off Marina.

 

 

Have a little faith, if we can make a profit on Morata, anything is possible. Conte will spend daft money for crap players, I think we can get decent fees for Emerson and Moses. 

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Bakayoko & Batshuayi I think we could and I think you’re undervaluing Emerson (he is still playing internationally as far as I’m aware). 

Moses I think has one year left on his contract so we don’t have many cards to hold there. 
 

You have to remember we’ve got a lot of players like Palasic who’ve let go for a tidy little sum (albeit probably less than he’s worth). We’ll make a good chunk of change from these players if we actually sell them. That’s not factoring in how much losing the loan army will effect our wage bill!

If we find a new CB to bring in to improve the squad then we’ll probably end up having to move on one of our current ones who will also demand a good fee to offset things a bit. 
 

There’s a lot to worry about for next season but I really don’t think money is one of them. 

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Guest Sindre

Entertaining the idea of selling RLC and Hudson Odoi sounds crazy to me. They both have the potential the become some of the best players in the league.

Several names have been mentioned already as to who we could sell.
I'd like to add Rudiger to that list. He's still got a good "name" as a good CB even thought he isn't and with some luck we should be able to get quite a bit for him.

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We should only sell when we know for sure they wont improve when they leave. Selling players like Odi and RLC would be a massive gamble that we don't need to take. They are our home grown talent, so they should be given more time and more patients to shine, it would be a massive mistake to let any youth player go without having been given every chance beforehand. Imagine the pain of watching one of those youngsters leave the club and given chances to go to a top English team, then they improve, then we all feel sick in the stomach when we had them in our grasp.....ala KDB.

We don't necessarily need the cash anyway. We can still raise funds (if we actually need to) by selling the loan army. 

The only tough call is going to be Kepa. Still young enough to improve, goalkeepers mature later, but its such a crucial position, your team is only as good as the #1 keeper at the club. So maybe we should consider not replacing him as such, find a new #1, and then let them battle it out, loser sits on bench and eventually requests transfer. Just means we have to invest in another keeper and wait for some payback. Its a bit like when we had Cech and Courtois battling it out in the 14/15 season.

 

 

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I think everyone on this forum can agree we need new defenders. Particularly a CB and LB, but who to keep? I like Tomori, I know he's had his hiccups, but I really think he looks like a player, I'm surprised he's been dropped for so long. The other three are so hit and miss it's unreal... I don't even know if we should keep any of them, Zouma lacks consistency and is often caught falling asleep. Rudiger looks like a shadow of the player we saw against Barcelona, can't believe the change in him this season. Christensen just doesn't look cut out for this league/system, gets done for pace and just lacks the physicality for this league I think... And please for the love of god, we can't go into the new season with Emerson/Alonso. I'm very certain we won't though, Emerson looks like he's going to Inter, and Alonso will probably be our backup which I'm okay with, just please don't go for Chilwell. 

It's only the backline I think we should be overhauling and that's it. I'm confident with everything else, I know you'll disagree big time but I think we've got more than enough quality in midfield and now in attack with our latest additions. But to me it seems like Lampard's new style doesn't suit Jorginho or Kovacic, Lampard has been a tinker man all season so it's quite difficult to see how we'll be playing next season. I loved the pivot of Jorginho/Kovacic, but Lampard seems to be against playing it, he wants Kante in the middle and two attacking midfielders in front of him, that leaves Jorginho and Kovacic out of favour, who imo are two top midfielders who I would hate to see leave and would have a lot of success elsewhere. 
We'd certainly need to keep one as back up if we end up signing two new centre halves however I suspect we will only sign one so need to keep two.

I would also like to see Tomori reintroduced to the first team, at least on the bench and you do wonder why he now seems to be very much on the outsude of the first team squad.

Arguably we could punt both Alonso and Emerson and just bring in one left back. Azpilicueta can provide cover and Maatsen could be the youth option.

Jorginho just seems to be a dead man walking now. Lampard doesn't seem interested in playing him. Maybe because a decision has already been made. I'm not opposed to keeping him but I'm also not fussed about selling him and he should still command a good fee. It probably makes good sense for all parties.

All the adding up of fees received and potential fees and applying it to how much we can spend this window is too short term thinking (not saying you are doing this Slojo). We need to be thinking beyond one window. Realistically we are looking at minimum of three windows.
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Imagine the pain of watching one of those youngsters leave the club and given chances to go to a top English team, then they improve, then we all feel sick in the stomach when we had them in our grasp.

 

 

 

On that particular point I feel Lamptey is one we might regret losing. However that wasn't the club's call and you can't blame him for moving on as James was clearly ahead of him and still young.

 

Odoi, I think its safe to say you and I have disagreed about his potential enough already. [emoji3]

 

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55 minutes ago, Slojo said:

 Conte will spend daft money for crap players,  

Unfortunately he seems to be prioritizing helping United rebuild. Reports suggest he even wants to make Alexis's deal permanent.

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I think we need to give CHO and RLC a (preferably injury free) season.  CHO has obvious abilities, and is still very young.  RLC I was really unsure about until the second half of last season when I thought he was one of our stand-out players.

If we're having clear-out, which we need to do, let's have a look based on the Chelsesfc.com player list:

Forwards:

  • Pedro - on his way, thank you for his loyal service
  • CHO - keep him, although will he be ahead of Pilisic, Ziyech, Werner, (Willian) for wide positions?
  • Giroud - appears to be staying, rightly so as he is playing well and is very consistent
  • Willian - going to be unpopular here I think, but I would let go
  • Batshuayi - bye, bye. In reality I think you could have been given more opportunities
  • Pulisic - keep he is going to be a star
  • Abraham - keep, let's see the effect Werner's arrival has

Midfielders;

  • Jorghinho - cash in, not sure how he fits into Frankie's system
  • Kante - keep, but only if we're playing him in a defensive mid role
  • Barkley - let him go, I like him, but prefer RLC, Mount, Kovacic is those positiond
  • Kovacic - keep, see above
  • RLC - keep, see above
  • MvG - hmmmmm, just given him a year on contract, Roman being nice?
  • Mount - keep, he's going to be a star
  • Gilmout - keep and work out his best midfield position

Of those on loan in these positions these may fall into contention (excuse me if any on two year loans) all midfielders:

  • Ampadu
  • Gallagher
  • McEachran

So I'm letting: Batshuayi (£20m); Barkley (£40m); and Jorghinho (£40m) go = £100m on top of the money already in for Hazard, Morata & Pasalic....

Defensively, I only see Reece James, Rudiger, Tomori and probably Dave as safe.  Personally I like Zouma too, but...  Outside of those it depends on Frank's plans.

Let Moses go on a free he was a star for a couple of season and has appeared to be a loyal servant.

 

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53 minutes ago, loz said:

 

 

 

 

 

On that particular point I feel Lamptey is one we might regret losing. However that wasn't the club's call and you can't blame him for moving on as James was clearly ahead of him and still young.

 

Odoi, I think its safe to say you and I have disagreed about his potential enough already. emoji3.png

 

Can see us regretting it as well, i suppose it's always a danger when you have such a busy academy that some players will be let go, and then come good elsewhere. We have to be careful because were just starting to see the benefits of our academy come through, players like Odi and RLC have been at the club for longer than any of the first team players (13 & 16 years), pretty remarkable when you think about it, these are some of the earliest academy players coming into maturity right now.

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2 hours ago, Munkworth said:

You’re joking right? If Marina only gets £60mil for all those players her reputation will be in tatters! There’s easily over £100mil there plus what’s left of the Hazard money. We just need to get CL football squared away and we’re laughing!

£100m would be a miracle for those 4. 

 

 

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